Jim Marion-Nondual Consciousness

[JimfromOhio]

doctrinal purity springs from a heart of love .

one must begin with love . because that is where God began and always will begin .

without love . all the doctrine in the world is just a creaking gate that deafens newborn babies .

without love . the scripture is just another way the enemy can enslave us .

without love . we are without the author and finisher of our faith .

since the scripture reveals that love surpasses knowledge

love must be the foundation . because God is Love .

God looks at us when we are sinners and dies for us . He doesn't do what many Revelatory Ephesians have been doing . He looks at what can be redeemed in this destitute mess . This is the love that comes from God .

So, you say that we should be developing tolerance for every view in the name of love and unity and a non-divisive spirit?

 

[Gregory Thompson]

So, you say that we should be developing tolerance for every view in the name of love and unity and a non-divisive spirit?

"why do ye tempt me?"

No i'm not saying that . i'm saying we should not be so insecure about our own views that we feel the need to correct everything . If you are confident about what Jesus is saying . then what the world is saying will have no effect on you . you just see the world with a different lense . and instead of complaining about it . God's transformative power works in it . and thus the gates do not prevail . but God does .

i believe this is the part of what i am saying that relates to your (possibly accusatory) question .

 

[nephilimiyr]

Now that's interesting... Even though Tamara said that her and I came to the same conclusion, according to Jim, he agrees with Tamara (which, BTW, was a shocking and totally unexpected response. )

*ahem* "I wonder what that indicates?"

I'm sorry but that made me laugh out loud!

 

[JimfromOhio]

"why do ye tempt me?"

No i'm not saying that . i'm saying we should not be so insecure about our own views that we feel the need to correct everything . If you are confident about what Jesus is saying . then what the world is saying will have no effect on you . you just see the world with a different lense .

i believe this is the part of what i am saying that relates to your accusatory question .

Just asking a question to see where you are coming from. Love and Grace are about loving other people that we have the freedom to do so but at the same time, respect how they practice their beliefs. Every person must decide whether they will us their liberty to decide on their doctrinal beliefs. All beliefs about Salvation are problematic. Belief system you have adopted about how things "should be done" which often gets challenged by the way things are in reality. A belief and a conviction that changes your life, changes the way you are, it affects your character and your will.

Responding to false doctrines, we should be aware of them. Martin Luther was used by God to develop, what theologians call "soteriology" the doctrine of salvation. He was a "soteriologist" and the truth of the matter is that the Reformation was a soeteriological reformation, that never touched the field of ecclesiology (the doctrine of the Catholic Church).

 

[Gregory Thompson]

Just asking a question to see where you are coming from. Love and Grace are about loving other people that we have the freedom to do so but at the same time, respect how they practice their beliefs. Every person must decide whether they will us their liberty to decide on their doctrinal beliefs. All beliefs about Salvation are problematic. Belief system you have adopted about how things "should be done" which often gets challenged by the way things are in reality. A belief and a conviction that changes your life, changes the way you are, it affects your character and your will.

Responding to false doctrines, we should be aware of them. Martin Luther was used by God to develop, what theologians call "soteriology" the doctrine of salvation. He was a "soteriologist" and the truth of the matter is that the Reformation was a soeteriological reformation, that never touched the field of ecclesiology (the doctrine of the Catholic Church).

I usually respond to false teaching by suggesting a reverse application .

With misdirected teaching i use a love corrective then apply anything new to see what fruit comes from it .

If what i suggest doesn't take root i let the fruit that comes from applying it speak for me .

 

[JimfromOhio]

I usually respond to false teaching by suggesting a reverse application .

That's your method. Your rebuke Tamara because you dislike her method.

 

[Gregory Thompson]

Ah so you were Mark 12:13ing afterall .

That's your method. Your rebuke Tamara because you dislike her method.

actually it was more like

With misdirected teaching i use a love corrective then apply anything new to see what fruit comes from it .

and i would like to think of it as God's method . its how He nurtured me .

in this case i learned nothing new to apply but will keep on keeping on anyway.

 

[JimfromOhio]

With misdirected teaching i use a love corrective then apply anything new to see what fruit comes from it .

I agree. God never gives us discernment in order that we may criticize, but that we may intercede. But, they do not always work with some people. Doctrines should be carefully scrutinized before we rely on them and some people don't do what God says. Sometime being direct is better than being indirect.

 

[Gregory Thompson]

Sometime being direct is better than being indirect.

Sometimes .

 

[nephilimiyr]

Hmm i could speak the gospel through that . if someone usurps a biblical sounding phrase . just subvert it back .. what's the big issue about?

I would also like to say that there is evidence that some of the OT authors used polemic, IOW, the biblical writers used other sources sometimes for their compositions. The prophets and psalmists were fond of using texts that claimed something about a Canaanite god and then editing it so that what they wrote would extol the virtues of their God Yahweh.

For example, the Sumerian Ugarit writtings are the oldest known writtings to man. They are believed to have created the written word. In Deut. 33:26 and in Psalms 68:4 Yahweh is described as "riding on the clouds". If you don't know this, this is taken right out of the Ugaritic religious texts that discribes Baal as master of the heavens and "riding on the clouds". The Hebrew writers copied it in order to say, 'no you fools, Yahweh is who controls the heavens and is riding on the clouds'.

 

[Gregory Thompson]

For something to be considered false teaching for me it has to be really bad

if you wish for me to be specific i may be persuaded .

but everyone is a little misdirected . myself included .

thank you for the convo/challenge Jim .

 

[Gregory Thompson]

I would also like to say that there is evidence that some of the OT authors used polemic, IOW, the biblical writers used other sources sometimes for their compositions. The prophets and psalmists were fond of using texts that claimed something about a Canaanite god and then editing it so that what they wrote would extol the vitues of their God Yahweh.

For example, the Sumerian Ugarit writtings are the oldest known writtings to man. They are believed to have created the written word. In Deut. 33:26 and in Psalms 68:4 Yahweh is described as "riding on the clouds". If you don't know this, this is taken right out of the Ugaritic religious texts that discribes Baal as master of the heavens and "riding on the clouds". The Hebrew writers copied it in order to say, 'no you fools, Yahweh is who controls the heavens and is riding on the clouds'.

Yes , it is no doubt from these writings that the idea that "God is a consuming fire" originated .. as we all know .. God was in the burning bush .. but did not consume it .

 

[Gregory Thompson]

Neph, what you said kind of brings alive this passage:

"How long will you be of two opinions? if Baal responds with fire, then he is God, if Adonai responds with fire, then He is God. Then they said to Elijah, what you say is Good."

 

[JimfromOhio]

actually it was more like



and i would like to think of it as God's method . its how He nurtured me .

in this case i learned nothing new to apply but will keep on keeping on anyway.

Everyone has a view of God's method. God nurtured others differently. I don't equate peacemaking with peace-achieving. We should no more tolerate false doctrine that we would tolerate sin.

 

[Gregory Thompson]

Everyone has a view of God's method. God nurtured others differently. I don't equate peacemaking with peace-achieving. We should no more tolerate false doctrine that we would tolerate sin.

I agree .

Let's make God the Benchmark .

God indwells us right?

So how much does He "tolerate" your wrong thoughts and the sin inside your heart?

Does He not show love to us . and help us in growing so the sin does not dominate our members?

how then would you imitate Him?

 

[nephilimiyr]

Neph, what you said kind of brings alive this passage:

"How long will you be of two opinions? if Baal responds with fire, then he is God, if Adonai responds with fire, then He is God. Then they said to Elijah, what you say is Good."

Yes, with the two living right next to each other they often had wars of words, not just wars of blood.

 

[Gregory Thompson]

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[JimfromOhio]

I agree .

Let's make God the Benchmark .

God indwells us right?

So how much does He "tolerate" your wrong thoughts and the sin inside your heart?

Does He not show love to us . and help us in growing so the sin does not dominate our members?

how then would you imitate Him?

Christ show love to sinners and rebukes those who were religious. If you look back that Jesus rebuked religious leaders who were teaching false doctrines. While at the same time, Christ was passion for sinners with full of love.

 

[Gregory Thompson]

Yes, with the two living right next to each other they often had wars of words, not just wars of blood.

 

[Gregory Thompson]

Christ show love to sinners and rebukes those who were religious. If you look back that Jesus rebuked religious leaders who were teaching false doctrines. While at the same time, Christ was passion for sinners with full of love.

Christ rebuked the religious . not for their doctrine but for their hypocrisy . and for the lack of love and mercy in their application .

Paul did the same thing .

It has nothing to do with having all your doctrines in order . it has to do with . do you practice what you preach?

James expounded further saying can you control your tongue?

the bible's message really seems to indicate that the kind of thinking that comes out of control structures is the problem .

it was so insidious that Jesus even turned the pyramid on its head .. but you know .. it was only a matter of time before human minds "corrected" that .

Jesus tried to go to the cities but you know .. those guys just couldn't keep quiet about Him so the droves followed Him out into the open wild .