Jewish Voice

[mjterry87]

Has anybody heard of this show? I watch it every sunday night on one of the local Christian chanels here in the Melbourne, Fl area. The host, not he is not the host, but is always on the show is John Bernis, or something like that. Anyways check out www.Jewishvoice.org . It is a great cause, and tonight they had a great discussion on MJ, and Christanity.

 

[Nora7]

Hi

My name is Nora--I attend a Messianic Synagogue in Melbourne FL. It's located on Lake Washington Rd and its called Kol Mashiach.

Jonathan Bernis will be speaking on Sat, July 17 at 7:00PM

Thought you might be interested since you enjoy watching his program.

 

[shmuel]

Jonathan Bernis is a sound representative of Messianic Judaism. He is currently the vice president of the MJAA along with his other jobs. In the past he has organized and led large Messianic Festivals in the former Soviet Union and elsewhere.

I am glad that Jerry is getting information on Messianic Judaism from such a good source.

S

 

[The Thadman]

Anyways check out www.Jewishvoice.org . It is a great cause, and tonight they had a great discussion on MJ, and Christanity.

No offense, but watching that video brought me to tears...

From what I can see it's a "send us money so we can convert Jews to mainstream Christianity" deal. Donate $500 and we'll throw in a shofar? Donate $50 and we'll give you a small one? No wonder why there are so many Anti-Missionary Jewish websites nowadays.

It left me with a knot in my chest the size of my fist.

Did I miss something? Please tell me I did.... I want to have missed something.

Peace!
-Steve-o

 

[shmuel]

Jonathan Bernis is a Messianic Jew. I find it strange that the portion of Christian Forums devoted to Messianic Judaism displays such a consistent hostility to Messianic Jews and Messianic Judaism.

S

 

[ShirChadash]

Jonathan Bernis is a Messianic Jew.

S

I'm so thankful to hear that -- one concern I had over the show is that it is called JEWISH Voice. But if the host and the program are in no wise Jewish... well that would be exceedingly deceptive.

The show seems to me -- at the beginning -- to be much like an infomercial.

 

[shmuel]

Wouldn't it be cool if Messianic Jews were allowed to define Messianic Judaism. This part of the forum is devoted to Messianic Judaism, but Messianic Jews and Messianic Judaism is frequently disparged here. One could, if one were so inclined, call that deceptive. It's as if one went to the Roman Catholic or Eastern Orthodox portion of the forum, and the majority posting there were protestants who disagreed with Roman Catholic or Eastern Orthodox doctrine and as a result said that they (RC and EO) weren't really Christians.

S

 

[ShirChadash]

I don't know if you were addressing me, Shmuel...

but I'll say this -- there is, as far as I know, no set of specific doctrines one must adhere to in a specific way, and understand/interpret in a specific way in order to be Messianic (Jew or Gentile). But, I consider messianic JEWS who follow Judaism to be better living the example of Yeshua than I am. I also consider Messianic Gentiles who follow Judaism to be better living the example of Yeshua than I am -- I'm learning, but even though I have been learning for a long(er) while, I haven't remotely embraced much of the Judaism of Yeshua as yet, in comparison to many folks in MJ. That's okey-fine... I keep learning and embracing and following as the Spirit of YHVH draws me onward. And it's okey-fine by me that Jewish and Gentile Believers will understand, embrace, practice and express their faith differently from each other. As a forum member here for a long while, I can say I have never seen Messianic Jews, nor Messianic JUDAISM disparaged.

What I have seen is strong opinion regarding the idea of gentilized Christianity being practiced in all its fullness, with a little outward Jewish *look* here and there -- Torah scroll and kippot, etc., along with Christmas and Oestara and Hallowe'en.

*shrug* How one chooses to practice isn't how another chooses to practice, and I am not sorry we don't (yet?) have a set of rigid guidelines all people must follow and doctrines all Messianics must understand and believe exactly *so* in order to be legitimately Messianic. This place does a very good job of allowing people who believe and practice VERY differently to come together and even debate MJ issues respectfully -- yep, some people refuse to allow other people to be who they are and grow as they will... some people refuse to respect the person while they are refuting the practices they adhere to... but by and large that is NOT common here IMVHO.

Shalom

 

[Hix]

Wouldn't it be cool if Messianic Jews were allowed to define Messianic Judaism. This part of the forum is devoted to Messianic Judaism, but Messianic Jews and Messianic Judaism is frequently disparged here. One could, if one were so inclined, call that deceptive. It's as if one went to the Roman Catholic or Eastern Orthodox portion of the forum, and the majority posting there were protestants who disagreed with Roman Catholic or Eastern Orthodox doctrine and as a result said that they (RC and EO) weren't really Christians.

S

I dont know what you mean Shmuel, you should know yourself that Messianic Judaism is as varied as the colors of the rainbow. Just because particular opinions may not align with your own doesnt mean that Messianic Judaism isnt expounded here at this forum.
On the contrary infact, if this person is only using a Jewish dress up aproach to convert Jews to christianity it is making a mockery of Messianic Judaism, no?

Shalom and G-d bless
~Hix~

 

[ShirChadash]

This part of the forum is devoted to Messianic Judaism, but Messianic Jews and Messianic Judaism is frequently disparged here. One could, if one were so inclined, call that deceptive.

One could, Shmuel, yes. But one would be errant to do so. Show me one place where active, "common" forum members (not passersby, drive-by posters, or trolls) have disparaged Messianic Jews (Jews who practice JUDAISM and believe Yeshua is Messiah) or the Judaism of Yeshua -- Judaism with faith in Yeshua as Messiah, Messianic JUDAISM.

 

[shmuel]

I haven't haven't made a negative remark about anyone. I haven't denied that Messianic Judaism is varied, although I would suggest that it is not as varied as some try to make it. All I have done is to pointout that an Individual, Jonathan Burnis, who is part of an important Messianic Jewish organization (MJAA) has had negative comments made about his ministry. If the MJAA is not part of Messianic Judaism then the historical meaning of the name has certainly been changed. If members of MJAA and their beliefs are not welcome on this "Messianic Jewish" forum then it ought to be so stated in the special rules. And since the views of the UMJC are similar, I guess that would exclude them too. Quite a "Messianic Jewish" forum without MJAA and UMJC! Sorta like a catholic forum without Roman Catholics.

S

 

[Hix]

Noone said the MJAA was not welcome on this forum, the senior admin of this forum for example attends an MJAA congregation. Whether or not Jonathan Burnis claims to be affiliated with the congregation or not has nothing to do with this discussion, we are to know them by their fruits and if he is involved in deception among the Jewish people for the sake of conversion to what is NOT Messianic Judaism, then we have every right to voice our OPINION about the matter.

You are allowed to voice yours also.

Shalom and G-d bless
~Hix~

 

[ShirChadash]

Oh well. I still don't know who you are addressing, Shmuel, but I assure you it isn't me. LOL.

I am curious where you get the idea that "members of MJAA and their beliefs are not welcome on this "Messianic Jewish" forum then it ought to be so stated in the special rules. And since the views of the UMJC are similar, I guess that would exclude them too. Quite a "Messianic Jewish" forum without MJAA and UMJC!"

How ya figure that these folks are not welcome? They're no less welcome here, as I see it, than anyone else is who claims to fall under the very wide umbrella of MJ -- but I'll tell ya what, the Messianics who follow Judaism and not gentilized Christianity should be (and I think they are) just as welcome as those who are in the organizations you mentioned. I dunno... I'm not a mod... I'm just speaking for me -- never have I seen anyone remotely say that members of MJAA and their beliefs are not welcome on this "Messianic Jewish" forum, or anything similar -- nor have I seen any such thing about any of the others you mentioned... individual PEOPLE who try to shove their views down others' throats? Yeah, they aren't well-received by many people but, ehn, that goes for anyone who fits that description, KWIM Bro? I am quite sure that some of those who don't remotely fall under the overheads you have mentioned have felt unwelcome here a time or two, themselves, as well.

People are people -- typically, how they personally behave gets them the reaction they receive from other posters on an online venue like this one. (And in life too, eh?) If someone -- or even some people -- here voice concerns over an organization, that is not a personal "shove off" to anyone who associates with that organization... unless the person chooses to take it that way ... and if a particular person behaves badly and is given a rather negative response... well, that doesn't mean everyone in the organization he might identify with is either the same as he is or would be responded to as he might be... am I making sense here? I haven't seen the behavior you are claiming:

but Messianic Jews and Messianic Judaism is frequently disparged here

And just in case you were addressing me in your post just after mine... let me say I hadn't the first clue who Johnathon Bernis is... and all I mentioned is that my initial reaction was to have a bit of concern... a question in my mind... whether "Jewish Voice" was actually Jew-led... there are an awful lot of folks claiming to be Jews who are in fact not Jews, and I hate the way that undermines (IMO at least) the witness of Jewish Believers in Yeshua. It wasn't even close to an offrontive or attacking comment, and I certainly do not feel that way, so I hope you didn't take my comments as being that way. My tone is usually more one of *musing* and *pondering*, really...

Shalom

 

[shmuel]

Jonathan Burnis is definitely Jewish. He is well know, at least on the MJAA side of the house. I identified him as vice president of MJAA in my first post to this thread.

S

 

[Hix]

Jonathan Burnis is definitely Jewish. He is well know, at least on the MJAA side of the house. I identified him as vice president of MJAA in my first post to this thread.

S

Oh yeah? Well Moshe Rosen (aka Pastor Martin) is well known to play the Jew card and hes about as Jewish as Santa Claus.

I give my good friend Tal the credit for finding this on Jonny Burnis:

A Pentecostal "rabbi"?



A man identified as a "rabbi" is scheduled to speak at a Promise Keepers conference during February in Phoenix, reports the Christian Times.


But this "rabbi," Jonathan Bernis, is actually a fundamentalist Christian and the executive director of the "Jewish Voice Broadcast."


The so-called "Jewish Voice" is really not Jewish at all, but rather a missionary organization that targets Jews in a proselytizing effort to gain converts. Louis Kaplan, an ordained Assemblies of God minister now deceased, founded the group in 1968.


Evangelical Billy Graham has strongly disapproved targeting one group for special missionary consideration.


The so-called "rabbi" obviously does not have credentials that would be recognized by any Jewish rabbinical organization and it is doubtful that he even ever attended a Jewish seminary.


The "Promise Keepers" seem to have overlooked this. They describe Bernis as simply a "Jewish believer." However, Jews believe in Judaism not missionary work for a Pentecostal organization.
If Bill McCartney the founder of the Promise Keepers wanted to offend the Jewish community of Phoenix, he seems to have succeeded in picking a likely way to accomplish that. What's next for the Promise Keepers a Methodist mullah?

Shalom and G-d bless
~Hix~

 

[ShirChadash]

He is well know, at least on the MJAA side of the house. I identified him as vice president of MJAA in my first post to this thread.

S

*shrug yet again* I missed that in your first post. I can't see how that justifies your attitude in posting to me. Once again, take a deep breath and re-read my posts.

 

[shmuel]

Yes Hix, any group that preaches Yeshua to Jews is called "Christian" by the anti-missionaries. By this logic then all of the MJAA as well as the UMJC is Christian and not Jewish. Thus, anyone holding the positions of these organizations is not entitled to full participation in this congregational portion of the forum. If I got that wrong, I hope the moderators will straighten me out.

S

 

[ShirChadash]

That's really interesting. Last I knew, as long as one bears the Messianic icon, one is welcome to even debate MJ on these fora.

*Zemmy patiently awaits a mod-extroardinaire, thanking HaShem that the Truth will come out *

 

[Hix]

Yes Hix, any group that preaches Yeshua to Jews is called "Christian" by the anti-missionaries. By this logic then all of the MJAA as well as the UMJC is Christian and not Jewish. Thus, anyone holding the positions of these organizations is not entitled to full participation in this congregational portion of the forum. If I got that wrong, I hope the moderators will straighten me out.

S

You missed the point, he uses MJ for the sole purpose to convert to christianity. And not only that he doesnt know a thing about true Judaism, hes whats known as "church in a kippa".

Quite frankly Ive found your attacks on Zemmy and others today to be outright rude, we are allowed to put out opinions across as are you, but flaming is another story.

Shalom and G-d bless
~Hix~

 

[ShirChadash]

I haven't haven't made a negative remark about anyone.

S

*raising hand*

>

And you are going to define who is and who isn't a Messianic Jew!

Seems to me that's a wee bit of a negative remark... especially since I never even insinuated I would ever attempt to do such a thing.