Jewish Group in City

[Moriah Ruth 777]

I wanted to share this with everyone. This is making news not only in Quebec, Canada but also making news here in Windsor and Chatham, Ontario.

Yahoo News Canada - Latest News & Headlines

This group had left their own province and city and came here for hearings here in court with regards to neglecting their children. One half is in Windsor, which is a 45 minute drive from my city. And the other half is here in my city Chatham-Kent. They are staying in hotels as we speak. Some were taken into homes.

We do not know much about this group. Now the Jewish community here is not ultra-orthodox. They are more liberal or conservative. Meaning they are not strict on their beliefs.

I am hoping to hear more about this group. Because it sounds like they want to stay here in Ontario. Now I am not sure if they are going to stay here to live here in the city or Windsor.

Does anyone know anything about this group or heard of them?

To all those who are Jewish that come to this forum your info is greatly appreciated also. And please be assured I am not after you here in the thread. I just want to know who this group is or heard of them.

Many blessings to all.

Moriah Ruth

 

[Lulav]

May I ask what is your interest in this group?

 

[Moriah Ruth 777]

Because first of all I love the Jewish people, they are God's chosen people and no one knows much about this group. Also is this a cultish sect?

 

[Moriah Ruth 777]

Ok this is what I found out thus far. Apparently my husband and his cousin were talking about this on Saturday evening. She works at the police department here in the city.

They are Hassidic Jews who were living in Quebec. A police investigation was issued on this sect of 200. This group is being investigated for child abuse and neglect and their living was beyond deplorable. They moved here to the city to get away from the police and the government. However the police here are also investigating this group. They have warned the public of this group.

My husband's cousin states that a few from this sect are looking to buy property here in the city. My husband tells me that he saw a young Hassidic Jew in one of the stores that he was at. He was wondering why he was here as we never had these people here before.

The area where I live is very religious. We also have a variety of groups living here in the small city. It is quiet here and most things are hidden here or kept secret. We have two Muslim groups living here in the city as well as many Mennonite groups, where we never had them here before.

I am not sure if the Jewish community is involved with this group or not.

If there is child abuse and what not going on, I would be very concerned about this.

Moriah Ruth

 

[ContraMundum]

Here ya go, read this.

 

[Moriah Ruth 777]

Thank you for the info Contra. So the police and the government calls this group the Jewish Taliban because they are extremists. What exactly is considered extreme or extremists?

They came here in to my city and they are considered to be extremist? Is this something that we should be really concerned about here in this city? If this is the case no wonder the police and the higher ups have their eyes on them.

I have not seen any of them..yet

Moriah Ruth

 

[Lulav]

Sounds to me as there is more to this

They have warned the public of this group.

Warned them about what?

 

[ContraMundum]

Thank you for the info Contra. So the police and the government calls this group the Jewish Taliban because they are extremists. What exactly is considered extreme or extremists?

They came here in to my city and they are considered to be extremist? Is this something that we should be really concerned about here in this city? If this is the case no wonder the police and the higher ups have their eyes on them.

I have not seen any of them..yet

Moriah Ruth

I don't think I'm any better off at assessing this than anyone else. All I know is that other haredim don't like them all that much. I still think they would be regarded as Jews though. There are so many haredi sects around, and they don't often agree on certain things.

My only advice would be not to worry too much. At least they are not the kind of extremists that are violent.

 

[Moriah Ruth 777]

This may be true Contra.

 

[Moriah Ruth 777]

Lulav,

Did you read the link that Contra provided? And if they are considered to be extremist I think the public would be concerned. I know I would be. Especially if there is children involved and they are abusing their children. They didn't say how they were abusing them. But it must be serious enough in order for the police to warn the public. This is my thought.

Moriah Ruth

 

[Moriah Ruth 777]

I will check more into this myself. Because I want to know who they are so if I come across them than I know what to do and how to respond to them. I respect everyone, no matter race, color, creed, culture or religion.

 

[Lulav]

Lulav,

Did you read the link that Contra provided? And if they are considered to be extremist I think the public would be concerned. I know I would be. Especially if there is children involved and they are abusing their children. They didn't say how they were abusing them. But it must be serious enough in order for the police to warn the public. This is my thought.

Moriah Ruth

there are Christians who are called Extremists, and worse, and they are what we would call Fundementalists. Even Ex President GW Bush could fall into governments definition of Extremists.

You haven't had any contact with them and probably will not so what's the worry? There is no need to be prepared. In some places it is considered abuse to home school your children. In other words if you don't like the worldly pagan curriculum they teach your children and want to have a say in it, as the Bible tells us to raise our children up in the way they should go, and also to teach them the commandments coming and going, every day, this is considered abuse.

 

[Moriah Ruth 777]

Yes Lulav, I was thinking of that very thing. That most people who homeschool their children at home they do get accused of abusing their children. My friend has two daughters and she homeschooled them until she couldn't do it any more.

However during the time that she was homeschooling them she would be accused by some so called mothers that she was abusing her children. And that they would call the Children's Aide on her if she didn't start taking them to school. She stuck it out through all that time. And she never gave in to it.

My husband told me that this Jewish group was on the 11:00 news last night. The newscaster were interviewing some of the people. One stated that the reason why they moved from Quebec was because they were being picked on. According to my husband there are at least 400 living here in the city and Windsor area.

And you are right also Lulav, when you say that there are Extremist Christians.

So is it because this group is being persecuted for their beliefs and their choice to homeschool their children or is there more to this then what this group is really saying?

This is the communities thinking and they are concerned with regards to this group.

I know when the Muslims started living here, especially the strict Muslims, everyone in the community was very concerned because they didn't know if they were from the Taliban or not. They are from Saudi Arabia.

I guess one will just need to watch and see what happens. Who knows, maybe this Jewish group is more peaceful than what the news and the police are saying.

Again this is just my thoughts.

 

[Gxg (G²)]

Sounds like the group is essentially a group akin to Zealots...

 

[Moriah Ruth 777]

Zealots?

 

[MessianicMommy]

There are a lot of issues with that specific group. I remembered they were in the news here two years ago... and I vaguely remember an article or two in Haaretz and a couple other Israeli papers that are put out in English that described the ultra strictness that had heads turning even in more orthodox areas in Israel. (Especially that women were wearing burqas or niqabs, rather than simply covering with a wig, scarf or hat.

There is a lot of news out right now about the situation. Children cannot live with extreme neglect and come out on top to become contributing members of society without having overcome extreme obstacles if people in authority do not intervene. I know a lot of survivors of varying degrees of neglect, so that's not being said blindly.

I'm not familiar with homeschooling laws in Quebec, but I do understand educational neglect. If that is going on, there will need to be assessments made with the children and work done with the community to ensure that the children do get a good education. If Quebec is worth it's salt educationally (and I have heard it is!) they will work within the home education frame first before moving towards private or public schooling.

I would suggest checking here for questions about what needs to be done if one wishes to educate at home in Quebec:
Canada Homeschool Laws : Quebec | Canadian Homeschool Society
Accueil - AQED
Quebec Home Based Learning Resource Page
» Legal information Montreal Homelearners / Communidée


If there is ever a declaration in the news of child neglect, please know that this is not some "flimsy" excuse bandied about. This will be well documented and air-tight in court, or it will not have made the news and be taken to court.

See:
https://www.childwelfare.gov/pubs/usermanuals/neglect/neglect.pdf
Child abuse & neglect, neglect | Canadian Child Welfare Research Portal


There is major concern with abuse not being talked about, covered up and hushed up within the homeschooling community. Unfortunately, the HSLDA has been actively covering up any ties to families that have been found to be abusive or neglectful with their children's education and care. They also have defended abusers over and over again and never once been concerned with the welfare of the children until this summer.

See:
Homeschooling's Invisible Children | Shining a Light on Abuse and Neglect among Homeschooled Children
H . A | Welcome to Homeschoolers Anonymous.

Lulav, I would take care with saying "In some places it is considered abuse to home school your children." The abuse is not home education. Considering homeschooling to be abuse is entirely tied to cases of actual abuses, instances of neglect, etc.

The director of youth protection for Quebec's Laurentians region says officials have concerns about the children's health, their hygiene and their home-schooling.
Denis Baraby says the children aren't capable of doing basic math.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/montr...ebec-amid-child-neglect-allegations-1.2438992

ETA:

Pressure from family members in Israel was a contributory factor to the intervention by Canadian officials. Canadian officials are probing the legal status of families. It is believed many if not most of the families are in Canada illegally.

http://www.theyeshivaworld.com/news...canadas-lev-tahor-cult-migrating-to-iran.html

Hopefully that is somewhat helpful.

 

[Moriah Ruth 777]

Thank you MessianicMommy for the info. And yes this is very helpful for me. This was the info that I was looking for.

 

[MessianicMommy]

I've just spent the last couple of days digging into this group, the rabbi and his family and what in the world is going on there.

It's really not good, but what I have so far is not yet ready for publication. I am finding allegations of child brides which the Canadian authorities are looking into (they have one in custody at the moment), malnutrition due to the very strict kashrut that the sect keeps, the children were not properly registered as homeschoolers with the school district and are/were not testing up to grade level, do not speak English or French (required for homeschoolers and public/private school children in Quebec) and were unable to do basic mathematics. Girls were not being educated past basic reading skills, and were instead being left at home to take care of younger siblings and do housework. (This was quantified as ""homeschooling""). The son of the rabbi has claimed that the HSLDA and other Canadian homeschooling groups told him it would be best to leave Quebec and go to Ontario due to the investigations and legal wrangling that would end with their children likely taken from them (I would love to hear what the HSLDA actually said!!) and the issues that go on with this group going back the last 30 years will just make your head spin.

There is also a lot of upset that Shlomo Helbrans is claiming that he is a rabbi, as several orthodox sources are saying he never had Smicha. (sp?) Most of the group seems to be made up of Baalei Teshuvah and is considered very extreme by almost every sect within Orthodox Judaism.

All I can suggest is to stay tuned to the news and remain in prayer for all involved. It is one messed up case.

 

[Moriah Ruth 777]

Thank you MM for the info. The news here in the city with this group states that they were being picked on by the Quebec Government because they were homeschooling their children. They are looking to buy property here as well as start Kosher shops. Several children were taken by the Children's Aide here in the city. So far the group is cooperating with authorities.

Is it because they are so strict as the media like to hype it up to be so called extreme that this is considered being persecuted for one's faith? Or being anti-Semitic?

Could they be persecuted because they choose to live the way they do or because they choose to homeschool? And what is considered extreme to some? Just because they do not live like us or believe like us?

So far authorities here are finding nothing out of the ordinary. But then again what goes on behind closed doors? And is all that stuff really true of what is being stated of them?

 

[MessianicMommy]

No. There is no persecution of this group. The authorities have found many things. It depends which authorities you are speaking to. Quebec? Ontario? The United States? Israel?

Why they left Quebec did have some "to do" with their homeschooling, but not completely.

Here is absolutely *everything* I was able to get on them dating back 30 years: Yeshua, Hineni!: Lev Tahor Homeschooling Case