Jesus

[lojo]

This question is from a new christian.

Since the creed of christianity is Jesus Christ is our lord. He is the Way, the Truth, & the fullfillment of God's covenant. Shouldn't he (Jesus) be our point of reference, and the Final Word which all other Scripture must be understood, interpreted and applied.

 

[terpswm]

How so? Are there some examples you'd like to share? Perhaps that would help me better understand the question.

Derek
--Wants to help.

 

[ZiSunka]

Well, yeah. He is our benchmark, so to speak.

 

[lojo]

My example would be the 10 commandment or the covenant to the Jews handed down from God. To me these would be the point of refernece, the final word through which all other Scripture of the Old Testament was understood, interpreted and applied.

This really goes back to the original question I asked a couple days ago about Scripture. And does Scripture from mouth of God have authority over Scripture inspired by God. Or is all Scripture equal.

 

[ZiSunka]

I think I see what you are asking.

You're wondering if some person's teachings and opinions in the Bible are on equal footing with God's words, and if those commanments and directions should be taken with the same weight as God's commandments and directions.

Like Paul's thing about women not teaching men.

Am I understanding you correctly?

 

[lojo]

Yes, lambslove that's basically the question.

 

[ZiSunka]

I personally believe that the words and actions of God are the ultimate authority in my life, and the words and actions of men are secondary. I believe this because everything that God says and does are done out of flawless and perfect love, but most things that mankind does are done out of thoughts of self.

For instance, Proverbs says that a bribe will sometimes get you what you want. But that was written by Solomon, a man. I think that bribes should be used judiciously and for the right reasons, not just to get us what we want.

For instance, giving a bribe to a judge to get you out of toruble is wrong. But giving a bribe to a child to get them to study harder is sometimes okay. When I was a kid in school, my grades were pretty poor, until my parents said that if I got a's and b's I wouldn't have to do dishes anymore. My grades shot way up immediately, because my parents came up with that bribe.

So, if God says it, I trust it and do it, but if anyone else in the Bible says it, I think about it and how it applies.

 

[terpswm]

Thanks for the clarification.

To answer your question, I suppose it depends on how you (generically, not you in particular) view the Bible. Is it the infaliable, inspired Word of God. If so, no matter who put pen to paper the words come from the same source and therefore should be taken equally.

If you view it as a combination of God's word and the opinions of Godly men, then logically that which is spoken by Jesus/God should take precidence over the other.

Personally I fall into the first camp.

 

[lojo]

I to believe the Bible is the infallable Word of God.
But does that mean that the inspired word God Could not be under the authority of the Word from the mouth of God? That's my original question. Is Jesus the point of reference, and the Final Word through which all other Scripture must be understood, interpreted and applied. Now that I think about it, isn't that how the church orignally determined what was considered to be inspired Holy Scripture?

By the way did I mention I am a new christian. I not really equipped to argue/debate these issues I am just looking for answers to questions that bother me. I also truely appreciate the answers given to help me work out this issue.

 

[Mandy]

I believe that any spoken word of God would be equal in authority to His written word.

 

[terpswm]

Ok, I see your point. If there was a "contradiction," ie Paul's letters to __________ contradicted something Jesus said then Jesus would be the final source. Though I haven't found any examples of such occuring.

Perhaps our definitions of inspired differ. I have always taken it to mean, and heard it taught, that while it was 'written' by man is was authored by God, much like a CEO dictating a letter to his secretary. Therefore, the entire Bible is equivilant to God speaking.

Sorry for the confusion.

Derek
--Hopes his explanation helped.

 

[ZiSunka]

I have never found any examples of Paul contradicting Jesus either.

Hm...I've never really believed that idea of God dictating the Bible, because you can see the different authors' styles in their writing. As you study the Bible over a period, you can spot the styles of, say, Isaiah from Jeremiah. If it was truly being dicated by a single author (God), I think the writing styles would be more similar. Like when you read a Grisham book, you can tell it from a Clancy book by the way he writes, without having to look at the author's name on the cover.

I think the danger in thinking that it was dictated by God, as opposed to being inspired by God is that there are a few places where you can see that something is a man's idea, as opposed to God's. Not contradictory, just not identical, like the bribe thing that I wrote about earlier. Or about women speaking in church. The way Paul wrote it, it looks like he means that women should sit un utter silence and never say a word in a church. But that's not what he means. He means that women shouldn't distrupt church meetings by talking among themselves during the meeting.

So, I think that if you use your head when you are reading, it is clear where God is speaking and where someone is expressing their own opinion, or even just recording history.

 

[terpswm]

That's true there are different writing styles...

This is an interesting topic, for sure. My only concern about saying something in the Bible is "man's idea/opinion" such as the bribery example, or Paul's take on women, is that it leaves the Bible open to having bits a pieces removed. If someone can justify to themselves that 'Paul said this, not God so I can ignore it' then can't they justify (to themselves) at least ignoring something Jesus said because "He might not have really said it or it's the author's opinion of what He said." I don't know, maybe that wouldn't happen.

Derek
--Plugs his Hare Krishna question.

 

[lojo]

The problem for me is not what is taught in the epistles. But rather how to, or the way they are interpreted. I think everyone would agree that many have and do twist and abuse Scripture. That's why I see a need for one point of refernce a Final Word. And where better to find that than Jesus.