Jesus' science knowledge

[billwald]

John 12:24. Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except a corn of wheat fall into the ground and die, it abideth alone: but if it die, it bringeth forth much fruit.

Couldn't have a much clearer "scientific" statement than this. A seed must die before it can sprout. Right?

 

[PaladinValer]

Fallacy of Hasty Generalization. Just because Jesus knew how seeds worked doesn't mean He knew about complex biology.

 

[The Lady Kate]

Besides, one hardly needs to be the Son of God to figure out that when a seed becomes a plant, it's not a seed anymore... It "dies" (as a seed) to bring forth fruit.

We too are like seeds...Just as when we are born again, we "die" (as the people we were before) to bring forth fruit (of the spirit).

 

[Maccie]

John 12:24. Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except a corn of wheat fall into the ground and die, it abideth alone: but if it die, it bringeth forth much fruit.

Couldn't have a much clearer "scientific" statement than this. A seed must die before it can sprout. Right?

So? What is the point of this OP? I am quite sure that people knew how a seed 'died' to become a plant way, way before Jesus lived. Way back, in fact, in the Neolithic times. If not before.

 

[Karl - Liberal Backslider]

I think the point is that Jesus was wrong about this from a purely scientific frame of reference - there is no death of the seed.

 

[pcwilkins]

Are you sure? I would say that a seed is a dead thing until the conditions are right for it to become alive. Until it is seperated from its 'mother' plant, it cannot sprout and bear fruit - but when it is seperated and falls to the ground, it is, really, dead, because it cannot move, reproduce, sense, grow, or respire unless external conditions are right.

I think I remember hearing that they found some seeds in one of the Pharoah's tombs and they grew ok, even after thousands of years of being 'dead'.

At any rate, Jesus wasn't meaning to give a biology lesson, but illustrating a point.

Peter

 

[Karl - Liberal Backslider]

Are you sure? I would say that a seed is a dead thing until the conditions are right for it to become alive. Until it is seperated from its 'mother' plant, it cannot sprout and bear fruit - but when it is seperated and falls to the ground, it is, really, dead, because it cannot move, reproduce, sense, grow, or respire unless external conditions are right.

Scientifically, this is quite incorrect. A seed is alive. It respires, its cells can reproduce, it senses when conditions are right for germination, and is capable of growth even if at that point it is not growing.

I think I remember hearing that they found some seeds in one of the Pharoah's tombs and they grew ok, even after thousands of years of being 'dead'.

They weren't dead. They were dormant, but not dead.

At any rate, Jesus wasn't meaning to give a biology lesson, but illustrating a point.

Which is rather the point about Genesis 1-3 as well.

Peter[/QUOTE]

 

[Smidlee]

In science it hard to define life so yes you can easily say the seed is dead (rots when planted). Of course, It's all according how someone would define life.
Yet we need to remember Jesus always use common language of that day and didn't try to talk over people heads. Even in that time, Roman Empire was full of think tanks and nerds who debate everything.

 

[PaladinValer]

It is not hard to define life. On the contrary, there are clear and easy questions that must be answered positively to determin if something is actually a lifeform.

 

[Vance]

Right, God spoke the Truth to people in the language of their day, in a way that could best convey the message, not attempting to give accurate science.

So, what was the cultural and literary style for telling about one's past in 2000 BC? We know for sure that it was not literal historical narrative.

 

[Xaero]

the seed is dead - long live the germ bud

 

[Calminian]

Scientifically, this is quite incorrect. A seed is alive. It respires, its cells can reproduce, it senses when conditions are right for germination, and is capable of growth even if at that point it is not growing.

.....

They weren't dead. They were dormant, but not dead.

It's always interesting to me how metaphors can be so easily misunderstood. For instance, in the N.T. Paul used the slavery metaphor to help his readers understand the bondage of man's will (as you know there's quite a debate raging about man's will). The problem is contemporary readers have a totally different concept of slavery than those of biblical times. We think of the evil institution that existed in this country where men were placed into servitude by the will of another. But slavery in ANE culture was almost entirely initiated by the slave himself, usually for survival reasons. It was actually a very good thing in most cases. This subtle nuance has enormous theological ramifications, IMO. That's why it's very important to get into the hebrew mind when trying to understand the scriptures.

Now those of you into theology are also well aware of the importance of the death metaphor. But again, death to the hebrew mind was vastly different from death to the contemporary mind, especially the contemporary scientific mind. Death, to the biblical writers, was a way to convey a separation or change. Christians are to die to their old nature daily. IOW, they are to change their behavior by separating themselves from their old ways. In genesis, Adam died immediately after eating the fruit. A literal rendering of the hebrew goes something like, ... for in the day of thine eating of it — dying thou dost die. Obviously the writer is not using the term death in the same way contemporary scientists are. The writer is speaking of Adam’s relational separation from God—a drastic change. Conversely, when the bible talks about life it has to do with uniting. To be dead to sin and alive to God is to be separated from sin, and united with God. With this in mind it should be very obvious that Jesus was using His terms properly.

Sorry, but those of you trying to demonstrate the ignorance of Christ have only exposed your own ignorance of the scriptures.