I am going to start this thread as a carry over from another thread since I pulled the latter thread off-topic.
I am going to copy and paste some quotes from the other thread....Moderator, I do so hope that is alright and will not be considered "trolling". If you have a better way, please do help me... Thank you...
Quote: Simonline: "Like most of the Israelites of that time and geographical location, the Messiah would have been multi-lingual and would have chosen His language/scriptures according to the mother tongue of the person with whom He was interacting. What's this obsession with knowing which languages the Messiah spoke or which version of the Scriptures He might have used? What is important is that whatever language He spoke or whatever version of the Scriptures He used, He would always have communicated the Truth." End Quote: Simonline
My brother, I am obsessed with anything that He did or said. I have studied Him and His ways in the Gospels for years. He put that longing in my heart. It was good in His sight to do that within me
There was a great need in my heart to learn of Him as He longingly called us to do while He was here . (Matthew 11: 28-29). I love the KJV here (as I love it in the whole Bible) because He said ~learn of me~. Other versions say ~learn from me~. I contend we can learn and learn and learn from Him and yet never learn of (about) Him...i.e. His ways. Yes, it is important, as you say that He always communicated the Truth no matter what Scripture He used. But He communicated truth by His life and actions, also, and so I say it is very important that He met each individual where they were at and used the language and the version of each individual that He ministered to. So, if I long to know each detail of His Life, while He was here, please know that it is important to me, even if it may not be to you. We must remember that Messiah communicated Truth not only through Scripture but by His very life and actions amongst those He ministered to. That is why the disciples, as you well know, were with Him 24 hours per day to not only learn from what He said but to watch His every action and every one of His ways of LOVE.
I think you have a fundamentally flawed understanding of the relationship between Biblical Judaism and Helenism.
I am certain I do as I am only beginning to learn these things....
Far from being an improvement on Biblical Judaism, Helenistic culture and philosophy has done unimaginable damage to the Divine Revelation that is Judeo-Christianity. Col.2:8 would I think be a better appraisal of Greek culture and philosophy than the one that you presently hold.
I obviously miscommunicated in my previous post...sorry. Edershein presents the western dispersion of the Jews. and all that involved, with the preparation for the gospel. Maybe he just meant the Greek language...I don't know. He says that Philo was the final piece of the puzzle, so to speak in the Helenization of the Jews. As I was reading about Philo yesterday, he obviously was of superior intellect but he had some really weirdo beliefs. And from all of the things they believed, apparently, I would agree fully agree with your statement that that culture and philosophy has done horrible damage because Edershiem was even talking about Kabbala or whatever it is called being around there and I believe that would be almost equivilent to New Age of this day. I know Kabbala is still around...I considered my a lot overlooking the Sea of Galilee from someone involved in it and one look at her website made my skin crawl.
So, what I was trying to say was that I was surprised that God would have allowed such weirdo-type thinking to be so involved in the preparation of the Gospel? Comprendo? Me no speak French, only a little Spanish
Whilst the apostle Paul communicated the truth to the Gentiles, he was not communicating Greek concepts and philosophy which was often diametrically opposed to the JUdeo-Christian Scriptural world-view. Instead he was communicating radical new Hebraic Truth using familiar Greek terminology with which the Greek speaking Gentile world could relate.
Thank you for that! If you ever come on a speaking tour in the US, let me know. Our churches, for the most part, definitely need to hear that!
See: Jesus The Jewish Theologian and/or Paul The Jewish Theologian by Brad Young http://www.amazon.com/Jesus-Jewish-T.../dp/1565630602 http://www.amazon.com/Paul-Jewish-Th.../dp/1565632486
Amanda, he has started a list for me, also
No. I believe all four gospels were originally written in Hebrew but were quickly translated into Greek (See: Understanding The Difficult Words of Jesus by David Bivin and Roy Blizzard Jnr. http://www.amazon.com/Understanding-.../dp/156043550X ). I believe that the rest of the New Testament was written in Greek but still communicated the Truth from within a Hebraic context and world-view.
Even the Gospel of John, huh? I need to look up the Hebrew definition of "Logos". When do you think it started changing that the Truth was not communicated from within a Hebraic context and world-view? I imagine that could be a hugh study within itself.
Well, so the hugh question for me would be, how would I know if I believe the truth from within a Hebraic context and world-view? And how would I know that that is the correct view to take? Because ~Jesus Christ, the same yesterday, today and forever~? (cherished is getting humbled now) I feel like a new-born Christian...starting all over again....
Whilst I know that Edersheim will help you to understand reality from a Hebraic rather than Greek perspective (and I cannot encourage you to understand reality from a Hebraic perspective highly enough) you need to remember that Edersheim's work is just commentary and not Divine Revelation.
God has always protected me and reminded me regarding the Bible only being Divine Revelation. I rarely use commentaries, actually. The Holy Spirit has been such a WONDERFUL Teacher for me. But I do love sitting at the feet of scholars, also. I am almost always hungry.
Oooooh (*wince*)! Some things are best kept to yourself. Amanda will be sore that she's just paid $20.00 for what you have just obtained for $13.59. Nevertheless, I am delighted that you have also invested in a copy (I bought another copy myself last Saturday for a friend of mine who has just recently returned to the Lord after being in a back-slidden state for over 20 years (and his testimony is that even in his rebellion, he knew that the Lord was still with Him, keeping an eye on him, even though he (my friend) didn't want to know the Lord for over 20 years). I cried for my friend when he abandoned his faith 20 years ago and now my heart is leaping for joy at my prodigal brother's return. And I bet you prayed for many a year for him
Speaking of testimony, do you have one, somewhere, written out? I would be particularily interested in the development of your relationship with the Lord and how that was impressed upon you....I would also be interested in how you came to so highly value the Holiness of the LORD which seems so rare in many American believers....
No. I just don't like disenfranchizing those Israelites who are also 'Messianic Jews' but who don't believe that Jesus of Nazareth is the Messiah.
This absolutely blows me away! I always thought a Messianic Jew believed in Jesus of Nazareth being the Messiah. I have been a supporter of the Jews for many years now and just love the Jewish people. But I do not ever remember being told the above that you wrote!
During the first century, the Israelite disciples of Jesus of Nazareth were known as members of the Jewish sect of the Nazarenes (i.e. the followers of Jesus of Nazareth) as distinct from the Nazirites who were a particular order of Israelites who totally devoted themselves to YHWH (amongst whom were Samson and John the Baptizer).
Another wonderful tidbit of information. I always thought they were one and the same....
Thus I prefer to correctly designate those Israelites who are disciples of Jesus of Nazareth as members of the Jewish sect of the Nazarenes rather than just designating them according to the non-descript designation of 'Messianic Jews' (which has the unfair side effect of disenfranchizing all the other Israelites of their ligitimate Messianic aspirations).
Simonline.
Why, I thank you, so very much, for all your time spent teaching me! God so blesses me! I just love Him so much for giving me great teachers for so many years. Strange, I used to always long to talk to my Pastors so much about these things but they are always so busy...Well, God, certainly gives us the desire of our hearts..............
Please take your time responding. I know how time-consuming it is. lol, did you ever think you would be teaching two ladies from California
I am going to copy and paste some quotes from the other thread....Moderator, I do so hope that is alright and will not be considered "trolling". If you have a better way, please do help me... Thank you...
Quote: Simonline: "Like most of the Israelites of that time and geographical location, the Messiah would have been multi-lingual and would have chosen His language/scriptures according to the mother tongue of the person with whom He was interacting. What's this obsession with knowing which languages the Messiah spoke or which version of the Scriptures He might have used? What is important is that whatever language He spoke or whatever version of the Scriptures He used, He would always have communicated the Truth." End Quote: Simonline
My brother, I am obsessed with anything that He did or said. I have studied Him and His ways in the Gospels for years. He put that longing in my heart. It was good in His sight to do that within me
There was a great need in my heart to learn of Him as He longingly called us to do while He was here . (Matthew 11: 28-29). I love the KJV here (as I love it in the whole Bible) because He said ~learn of me~. Other versions say ~learn from me~. I contend we can learn and learn and learn from Him and yet never learn of (about) Him...i.e. His ways. Yes, it is important, as you say that He always communicated the Truth no matter what Scripture He used. But He communicated truth by His life and actions, also, and so I say it is very important that He met each individual where they were at and used the language and the version of each individual that He ministered to. So, if I long to know each detail of His Life, while He was here, please know that it is important to me, even if it may not be to you. We must remember that Messiah communicated Truth not only through Scripture but by His very life and actions amongst those He ministered to. That is why the disciples, as you well know, were with Him 24 hours per day to not only learn from what He said but to watch His every action and every one of His ways of LOVE.I think you have a fundamentally flawed understanding of the relationship between Biblical Judaism and Helenism.
I am certain I do as I am only beginning to learn these things....
Far from being an improvement on Biblical Judaism, Helenistic culture and philosophy has done unimaginable damage to the Divine Revelation that is Judeo-Christianity. Col.2:8 would I think be a better appraisal of Greek culture and philosophy than the one that you presently hold.
I obviously miscommunicated in my previous post...sorry. Edershein presents the western dispersion of the Jews. and all that involved, with the preparation for the gospel. Maybe he just meant the Greek language...I don't know. He says that Philo was the final piece of the puzzle, so to speak in the Helenization of the Jews. As I was reading about Philo yesterday, he obviously was of superior intellect but he had some really weirdo beliefs. And from all of the things they believed, apparently, I would agree fully agree with your statement that that culture and philosophy has done horrible damage because Edershiem was even talking about Kabbala or whatever it is called being around there and I believe that would be almost equivilent to New Age of this day. I know Kabbala is still around...I considered my a lot overlooking the Sea of Galilee from someone involved in it and one look at her website made my skin crawl.
So, what I was trying to say was that I was surprised that God would have allowed such weirdo-type thinking to be so involved in the preparation of the Gospel? Comprendo? Me no speak French, only a little Spanish
Whilst the apostle Paul communicated the truth to the Gentiles, he was not communicating Greek concepts and philosophy which was often diametrically opposed to the JUdeo-Christian Scriptural world-view. Instead he was communicating radical new Hebraic Truth using familiar Greek terminology with which the Greek speaking Gentile world could relate.
Thank you for that! If you ever come on a speaking tour in the US, let me know. Our churches, for the most part, definitely need to hear that!
See: Jesus The Jewish Theologian and/or Paul The Jewish Theologian by Brad Young http://www.amazon.com/Jesus-Jewish-T.../dp/1565630602 http://www.amazon.com/Paul-Jewish-Th.../dp/1565632486
Amanda, he has started a list for me, also
No. I believe all four gospels were originally written in Hebrew but were quickly translated into Greek (See: Understanding The Difficult Words of Jesus by David Bivin and Roy Blizzard Jnr. http://www.amazon.com/Understanding-.../dp/156043550X ). I believe that the rest of the New Testament was written in Greek but still communicated the Truth from within a Hebraic context and world-view.
Even the Gospel of John, huh? I need to look up the Hebrew definition of "Logos". When do you think it started changing that the Truth was not communicated from within a Hebraic context and world-view? I imagine that could be a hugh study within itself.
Well, so the hugh question for me would be, how would I know if I believe the truth from within a Hebraic context and world-view? And how would I know that that is the correct view to take? Because ~Jesus Christ, the same yesterday, today and forever~? (cherished is getting humbled now) I feel like a new-born Christian...starting all over again....
Whilst I know that Edersheim will help you to understand reality from a Hebraic rather than Greek perspective (and I cannot encourage you to understand reality from a Hebraic perspective highly enough) you need to remember that Edersheim's work is just commentary and not Divine Revelation.
God has always protected me and reminded me regarding the Bible only being Divine Revelation. I rarely use commentaries, actually. The Holy Spirit has been such a WONDERFUL Teacher for me. But I do love sitting at the feet of scholars, also. I am almost always hungry.
Oooooh (*wince*)! Some things are best kept to yourself. Amanda will be sore that she's just paid $20.00 for what you have just obtained for $13.59. Nevertheless, I am delighted that you have also invested in a copy (I bought another copy myself last Saturday for a friend of mine who has just recently returned to the Lord after being in a back-slidden state for over 20 years (and his testimony is that even in his rebellion, he knew that the Lord was still with Him, keeping an eye on him, even though he (my friend) didn't want to know the Lord for over 20 years). I cried for my friend when he abandoned his faith 20 years ago and now my heart is leaping for joy at my prodigal brother's return. And I bet you prayed for many a year for him
Speaking of testimony, do you have one, somewhere, written out? I would be particularily interested in the development of your relationship with the Lord and how that was impressed upon you....I would also be interested in how you came to so highly value the Holiness of the LORD which seems so rare in many American believers....
No. I just don't like disenfranchizing those Israelites who are also 'Messianic Jews' but who don't believe that Jesus of Nazareth is the Messiah.
This absolutely blows me away! I always thought a Messianic Jew believed in Jesus of Nazareth being the Messiah. I have been a supporter of the Jews for many years now and just love the Jewish people. But I do not ever remember being told the above that you wrote!
During the first century, the Israelite disciples of Jesus of Nazareth were known as members of the Jewish sect of the Nazarenes (i.e. the followers of Jesus of Nazareth) as distinct from the Nazirites who were a particular order of Israelites who totally devoted themselves to YHWH (amongst whom were Samson and John the Baptizer).
Another wonderful tidbit of information. I always thought they were one and the same....
Thus I prefer to correctly designate those Israelites who are disciples of Jesus of Nazareth as members of the Jewish sect of the Nazarenes rather than just designating them according to the non-descript designation of 'Messianic Jews' (which has the unfair side effect of disenfranchizing all the other Israelites of their ligitimate Messianic aspirations).
Simonline.
Why, I thank you, so very much, for all your time spent teaching me! God so blesses me! I just love Him so much for giving me great teachers for so many years. Strange, I used to always long to talk to my Pastors so much about these things but they are always so busy...Well, God, certainly gives us the desire of our hearts..............
Please take your time responding. I know how time-consuming it is. lol, did you ever think you would be teaching two ladies from California
