Jesus is the light of the world...

[simonthezealot]

I would love an answer on this, I've noticed the quran states "the book" (the book=bible) its' context IS revealed by God HERE...

We believe in Allah, and in what has been revealed to us and what was revealed to Abraham, Ismail, Isaac, Jacob, and the Tribes, and in (the Books) given to Moses, Jesus, and the Prophets, from their Lord: We make no distinction between one and another among them (3:84 AYA).

RIGHT?

Well here is what "the book" says about Jesus Christ.
John 8:12 12Then spake Jesus again unto them, saying, I am the light of the world: he that followeth me shall not walk in darkness, but shall have the light of life
http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=John 8:12&version=9;

if the Quran does not lie then Jesus IS the Light of the world! because the bible is revealed by God according to the quran.

 

[Rasta]

I would love an answer on this, I've noticed the quran states "the book" (the book=bible) its' context IS revealed by God HERE...

We believe in Allah, and in what has been revealed to us and what was revealed to Abraham, Ismail, Isaac, Jacob, and the Tribes, and in (the Books) given to Moses, Jesus, and the Prophets, from their Lord: We make no distinction between one and another among them (3:84 AYA).

RIGHT?

Well here is what "the book" says about Jesus Christ.
John 8:12 12Then spake Jesus again unto them, saying, I am the light of the world: he that followeth me shall not walk in darkness, but shall have the light of life
http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=John 8:12&version=9;

if the Quran does not lie then Jesus IS the Light of the world! because the bible is revealed by God according to the quran.

Right, except they believe that all "the books" prior were corrupted by humans.

Which is why god needed to reveal "the Quran" to them, so he could "set the record straight".

You know, the same reason why Christians don't believe every single word Torah says.

 

[Secundulus]

You know, the same reason why Christians don't believe every single word Torah says.

Not correct.

The exception is those who adhere to modern and post-modern theology and who don't believe the New Testament either.

 

[simonthezealot]

Right, except they believe that all "the books" prior were corrupted by humans.

Which is why god needed to reveal "the Quran" to them, so he could "set the record straight".

You know, the same reason why Christians don't believe every single word Torah says.

So in that alone their book contradicts.

 

[Futuwwa]

No, it doesn't. Never does it say that the book canonized in 325 AD is the revelation given to Jesus.

 

[Meshavrischika]

Not correct.

The exception is those who adhere to modern and post-modern theology and who don't believe the New Testament either.

the dead sea scrolls show that the books at least had great potential for change by man. while some of them were strikingly similar to the books now, some are incredibly different with many indicating that the copiers felt free to remove things at will from the text.

 

[Rasta]

Not correct.

The exception is those who adhere to modern and post-modern theology and who don't believe the New Testament either.

It is very simular dynamics. Christians believe they have recieved a "new revalation". So do Muslims. When they contradict, you believe the NT over the Torah.

Same with Muslims and the Quran.

 

[simonthezealot]

No, it doesn't. Never does it say that the book canonized in 325 AD is the revelation given to Jesus.

We believe in Allah, and in what has been revealed to us and what was revealed to Abraham, Ismail, Isaac, Jacob, and the Tribes, and in (the Books) given to Moses, Jesus, and the Prophets, from their Lord: We make no distinction between one and another among them (3:84 AYA).
---------------------------------------------
If that doesn't work I would encourage you to view the 100+ prophecies of the Old testament (not sure what you call it) these same things can be seen in a concealed forshaddowing of the coming Messiah.
---------------------------------------
Start with those areas revealed that were written recorded pre-Christ incarnation which were found in the scrolls.

 

[Rasta]

So in that alone their book contradicts.

As do all of "the books" that claim abosolute truth.

The Torah says that there is no god besides JHWH, and JHWH is ONE.

Christians say, oh yeah, god is one, but this one god is actually three entities.

Many see this as a contradiction as well.

 

[Meshavrischika]

It is very simular dynamics. Christians believe they have recieved a "new revalation". So do Muslims. When they contradict, you believe the NT over the Torah.

Same with Muslims and the Quran.

I never have felt like they contradict. I feel like people's interpretation contradicts.

I just think anything touched by man is flawed inherently. There is no way to make 100% sure that everyone who ever copied the bible was led by the spirit and included everything that was originally there or that they didn't add to suit an agenda.

 

[Rasta]

We believe in Allah, and in what has been revealed to us and what was revealed to Abraham, Ismail, Isaac, Jacob, and the Tribes, and in (the Books) given to Moses, Jesus, and the Prophets, from their Lord: We make no distinction between one and another among them (3:84 AYA).
---------------------------------------------
If that doesn't work I would encourage you to view the 100+ prophecies of the Old testament (not sure what you call it) these same things can be seen in a concealed forshaddowing of the coming Messiah.
---------------------------------------
Start with those areas revealed that were written recorded pre-Christ incarnation which were found in the scrolls.

Yes, but the Torah also says that the Messiah must fufill, you know, ALL OF THE PROPHESIES to be the Messiah.

Not 2/3 now, and the rest later.

There is a reason why Jews don't believe in your brand of "truth".

 

[Futuwwa]

We believe in Allah, and in what has been revealed to us and what was revealed to Abraham, Ismail, Isaac, Jacob, and the Tribes, and in (the Books) given to Moses, Jesus, and the Prophets, from their Lord: We make no distinction between one and another among them (3:84 AYA).

And? If it talks about a specific book given to Jesus; it can't be the Christian NT, which is authored by a great deal of folks, Jesus being nobody of them.

In Quranic Arabic, "book" need not refer to a physical object, but a set of revelations. The Quran also refers to itself as a "book", though it wasn't compiled into a single volume by the time of revelation.

If that doesn't work I would encourage you to view the 100+ prophecies of the Old testament (not sure what you call it) these same things can be seen in a concealed forshaddowing of the coming Messiah.
---------------------------------------
Start with those areas revealed that were written recorded pre-Christ incarnation which were found in the scrolls.

And this has what to do with the topic?

 

[Rasta]

I never have felt like they contradict. I feel like people's interpretation contradicts.

Same with Muslims. They don't think their book contradicts either.

I just think anything touched by man is flawed inherently.

A car that is flawed is so, because of the manner of it's manufacture. If man is innately flawed then how are you able to objectively distinguish from one group to the next?

You can't do it objectively, so it comes down to what you want to believe.

Same is true with Islam.

There is no way to make 100% sure that everyone who ever copied the bible was led by the spirit and included everything that was originally there or that they didn't add to suit an agenda.

I agree. Which is why I believe none.

 

[simonthezealot]

Why Jews don't believe in your brand of "truth".

Yes scripture tells us why. If your interested i'll show you?

 

[Meshavrischika]

Same with Muslims. They don't think their book contradicts either.



A car that is flawed is so, because of the manner of it's manufacture. If man is innately flawed then how are you able to objectively distinguish from one group to the next?

You can't do it objectively, so it comes down to what you want to believe.

Same is true with Islam.



I agree. Which is why I believe none.

I don't agree with your second statement but the rest is understandable.

Anyway... the way you discern (or at least I do) is by the Holy Spirit. Everything else is likely to lead to conflict and error.

 

[simonthezealot]

If man is innately flawed then how are you able to objectively distinguish from one group to the next?

Seperate all the groups by what they have in common in their beliefs and by what they stand alone in their beliefs. There is one key thing to true CHRISTianity that is not in any other religion when you understand I mean truly understand this one difference it all becomes so simple.

 

[Rasta]

Yes scripture tells us why. If your interested i'll show you?

You don't need to try to convince me, of your brand of truth. I'm not opposed to you doing so, but I'm also aware of what the Torah says and what Jews believe.

Perhaps you should try to convince them why the Messiah doesn't need to fufill ALL OF THE MESSIANIC PROPHESIES.

The Torah says nothing about a second coming, or god ever becoming a man.

 

[Rasta]

I don't agree with your second statement but the rest is understandable.

Anyway... the way you discern (or at least I do) is by the Holy Spirit. Everything else is likely to lead to conflict and error.

Right. I'm sorry if I'm skepticle, but all Christians say THEY are lead by the HS.

Hell? No Hell? I've heard both from people lead by the HS.

They can't both be lead by the HS and claim opposite things. This is clear.

One of them is wrong for sure. One of them for sure is unaware that they are NOT being lead by the HS.

How can this be?

 

[Meshavrischika]

Right. I'm sorry if I'm skepticle, but all Christians say THEY are lead by the HS.

Hell? No Hell? I've heard both from people lead by the HS.

They can't both be lead by the HS and claim opposite things. This is clear.

One of them is wrong for sure. One of them for sure is unaware that they are NOT being lead by the HS.

How can this be?

I agree with this too.

Basically, it's a personal thing. Only the person who's there knows whether they are Spirit led.... the problem is when people present their desires and ideation instead of Spirit.

They may not be aware because they don't understand. I've been a Christian for 25 or so years and have only recently found the Holy Spirit. Most people think their moral compass is the spirit which is false (and some are flat manipulators)

 

[Rasta]

Seperate all the groups by what they have in common in their beliefs and by what they stand alone in their beliefs. There is one key thing to true CHRISTianity that is not in any other religion when you understand I mean truly understand this one difference it all becomes so simple.

OH I get it. Don't worry about that. I understand it is simple.

I have a hinckling suspition that you qualify "truely understand" as accepting your position without scrutinty.