Now I get it. You got this from some website TRYING to sound legitimate. But in actuality, the author was distorting the Arabic making it sounding legit where it is not.
Here's a few reputable translation
009.031
YUSUFALI: They take their priests and their anchorites to be their lords in derogation of Allah, and (they take as their Lord) Christ the son of Mary; yet they were commanded to worship but One Allah: there is no god but He. Praise and glory to Him: (Far is He) from having the partners they associate (with Him).
PICKTHAL: They have taken as lords beside Allah their rabbis and their monks and the Messiah son of Mary, when they were bidden to worship only One Allah. There is no Allah save Him. Be He Glorified from all that they ascribe as partner (unto Him)!
SHAKIR: They have taken their doctors of law and their monks for lords besides Allah, and (also) the Messiah son of Marium and they were enjoined that they should serve one Allah only, there is no god but He; far from His glory be what they set up (with Him).
Sorry, we're not buying what you are selling. We only deal in logic. Jesus being god is not logical.
P.E.A.C.E and Blessings...
Eye never said anything about it not being a powerful tool, eye am aware of the power of the written word, we all know the pen is mightier than the sword. It's not however very powerful evidence of anything. Anyone can write anything regardless of whether it is true or false.
SHEM HETEP
Thank you
So... you say that the Qur'an is not the Word of G-d, but you also say that the Qur'an says that Jesus(as) is the Deity(astigfirullah).Do you know what a logical fallacy is...a non-sequitur?
Do you not see that, by your logic....Jesus is definitely not G-d? You can never, ever prove your point using the Qur'an, if your stance is that the Qur'an is the book of the shaitan(a'uuzu billahi mina shaitan-ir rajim!)
Maybe you have found some contradiction in the Qur'an that no one has yet been aware of...since the Qur'an definitely says that Jesus is neither G-d or the son of G-d in the other verses you either ignore or gloss over(note: sarcasm is intended)
Wallahu A'lam
May Allah(swt) protect us all, Muslim and non-muslim, from this dajjal, Ameen!
Wallahu A'lam
Btw...thanks for the free advertisement....
Salaam Aleikum
ApplePie7......i think we all have had enough of your false statements....if the Qur'an truly stated that Jesus is God then why do all the Muslims in the world, ALL the muslims, deny Jesus is God.
Are you saying that over one billion people are reading the Qur'an wrongly and are you saying that over one billion people have somehow come up with something in error about Jesus not being God?
I think your fantasy has gone a little too far and I think everyone here would greatly appreciate you no longer trying to prove that the Qur'an says Jesus is God, because it doesnt. Thats all
Why not start refuting the opening ayah in this thread instead of looking for more excuses...?
How many Muslims will it take to thoroughly refute you before you are satisfied? i think only one is necessary! rahma refuted you, so it is over! no need for my comments..the old bait and switch will not work dajjal. for your info i am not in a rage...i have trouble writing this out of laughter and sheer amazed amusement, not anger.
I do believe you are making the excuses!
Answer my questions if you are truthful!
Wallahu A'lam
اتخذوا أحبارهم ورهبنهم أربابا من دون الله
والمسيح ابن مريم وما أمروا إلا ليعبدوا إلها
وحدا لا إله إلا هو سبحنه عما يشركون
Ittakhathoo ahbarahum waruhbanahum arbaban min dooni Allahi waalmaseeha ibna maryama wama omiroo illa liyaAAbudoo ilahan wahidan la ilaha illa huwa subhanahu AAamma yushrikoona
well...why not...a refutation of this guy is easy enough
notice the words in green.
now, this person applepie claims to be a master at Quranic exegesis, over and above the hundreds of thousands of Islamic scholars from 632ce to right now in 2007ce.
First thing to understand is that not only is the Qur'an written, but it is memorized. So with that in mind it should be easy to see that while applepie claims that later muslims added punctuation to the Arabic text of the Qur'an, he neglected to mention that he also added punctuation to his translation without providing the reader with the exegetical and hermenetical tools he used to arrive at his conclusion. Could it be that his interpretation disagrees with the muslims who have memorized the Qur'an and kept it safe in their hearts, minds, souls?
Second, notice in the Arabic translation the second highlighted part negates what applepie is trying to purport. confused? well, unless we are admitting contradiction here, let me be more clear. The first highlighted part in the transliteration equates Allah(swt) with al-Masih(as), according to applepie. Notice that the use of two signifies two. Notice,the next highlighted part states that we were commanded to worship one Allah. Who is Allah here, since the ayah has just previously mentioned two persons here? Since "christians" have no problem with Allah being three, maybe they also have no problem with him being two. Nay! The ayah clearly says that Allah(swt) is ONE.
Well, other verses of the Qur'an clearly identify the difference between Allah(swt) and Masih(as). Maybe applepie missed them?
9.31 They have taken their learned persons and their monks (as) lordsfromsuperior (to) “allah” and The Messiah, Mary's Son; and they commanded not except that they may worship one god, no god except He (no god except who?), glory be to Him (maybe applepie missed the part about the word Subhana referring to Allah(swt) and not Jesus(as))
from what they associate partners.
Look at the transltion here by applepie and tell me this makes sense to you? note the highlighted words.
Observe that “allah” is included along with The Messiah, Jesus Christ, via the copulative conjunction “wa”, as being part and parcel of the prepositional phrase initiating with “min” (from).
Further, although "allah" and Jesus are listed separately, they are treated as ONE...via the singular "huwa" (him)... .
See above for the negation that comes after them being listed "as one, as applepie says", instead of being listed together, as other normal human beings understand
This is the same exact method as used in the Holy Bible in many locations that proclaim the divinity of Jesus Christ...and, as such, the authors of the Koran have also copied this over into their opus.
Notice the other posts and see how loathe applepie is to prove this assertion with actual, verifiable scholarly documentation.
The difference being that they have attempted to raise the pagan Arab god "allah" up to the Biblical deity status of Jesus Christ.
Can anyone say Dr. Morey?!! Care to offer for us the definition of pagan applepie?
You will see the modern English translators deceitfully butchering this text by inserting all sorts of add-on-words in parenthesis – in order to make this ayah conform to the Islamic paradigm.
notice that i did not resort to insertions and add-on words in parenthesis.
Fact of the matter is that this ayah proclaims Jesus Christ as God Almighty.
non sequitur par excellence
Furthermore, in keeping with a style of argumentation that is fond of selective reading applepie has neglected(purposefully?) to show us full context. I doubt he understands context since he would know that full context involves the full text not a piece(ayah) of the text.
Take notice of this ayah from the Qur'an:
Qur'an 9:30
Arabic (from right to left):‏9:30[FONT="] وقالت اليهود عزير ابن الله وقالت النصارى المسيح ابن الله ذلك قولهم بافواههم ويضاهئون قول الذين كفروا من قبل قاتلهم الله انى يؤفكون [/FONT]
Transliteration:
[009:030] Waqalati alyahoodu AAuzayrun ibnu Allahi waqalati alnnasara almaseehuibnu Allahi thalika qawluhum bi-afwahihim yudahi-oona qawla allatheena kafaroo min qablu qatalahumu Allahu anna yu/fakoona
Yusuf Ali:
[009:030] The Jews call 'Uzair a son of God, and the Christians call Christ the son of God. That is a saying from their mouth; (in this) they but imitate what the unbelievers of old used to say. God's curse be on them: how they are deluded away from the Truth!
Dr. Munir Munshey
[009:030] The Jews said, “Uzair (Ezra) is the son of Allah”, and the Christians said, “Jesus is the son of Allah.” These are (nothing but mere) words that escape their lips. They just (ape and) echo the words of the unbelievers of earlier times. Allah’s curse is upon them! How (easily) are they being deceived!Sher Ali:
[009:030] And the Jews say, `Ezra is the son of ALLAH,' and the Christians say, `the Messiah is the son of ALLAH;' that is what they say with their mouths. They only imitate the saying of those who disbelieved before them. ALLAH's curse be on them ! How they are turned away.
Shakir:
[009:030] And the Jews say: Uzair is the son of Allah; and the Christians say: The Messiah is the son of Allah; these are the words of their mouths; they imitate the saying of those who disbelieved before; may Allah destroy them; how they are turned away!
Pickthall:
[009:030] And the Jews say: Ezra is the son of Allah, and the Christians say: The Messiah is the son of Allah. That is their saying with their mouths. They imitate the saying of those who disbelieved of old. Allah (Himself) fighteth against them. How perverse are they!
Sale:
[009:030] The Jews say, Ezra is the son of God: And the Christians say Christ is the son of God. They say this (only) with their mouths: They imitate the saying of those who were unbelievers in former times. May God curse them (literally: fight against them)! How can they be so infatuated?
Muhammad Al-Hilali & Muhsin Khan:
[009:030] And the Jews say: Uzair (Ezra) is the son of Allah, and the Christians say: Messiah is the son of Allah. That is a saying from their mouths. They imitate the saying of the disbelievers of old. Allahs Curse be on them, how they are deluded away from the truth!
Palmer:
[009:030] The Jews say Ezra is the son of God; and the Christians say that the Messiah is the son of God; that is what they say with their mouths, imitating the sayings of those who misbelieved before.- God fight them! how they lie!
Arberry:
[009:030] The Jews say, 'Ezra is the Son of God'; the Christians say, 'The Messiah is the Son of God.' That is the utterance of their mouths, conforming with the unbelievers before them. God assail them! How they are perverted!
Khalifa:
[009:030] The Jews said, "Ezra is the son of GOD," while the Christians said, "Jesus is the son of GOD!" These are blasphemies uttered by their mouths. They thus match the blasphemies of those who have disbelieved in the past. GOD condemns them. They have surely deviated.
Rodwell:
[009:030] The Jews say, "Ezra (Ozair) is a son of God"; and the Christians say, "The Messiah is a son of God." Such the sayings in their mouths! They resemble the saying of the Infidels of old! God do battle with them! How are they misguided!
Now read the rest of the Qur'an to get the fuller picture!
i think that is enough for now.
Wallahu A'lam
Btw...thanks for the free advertisement....
A nuwaubian? interesting
Allah(swt) bless you, brother
Wallahu A'lam
All,
Here is another Koranic ayah stating that Jesus is God...
وهو الذي في السماء إله وفي الأرض إله وهو
الحكيم العليم
Wahuwa allathee fee alssama-i ilahun wafee al-ardi ilahun wahuwa alhakeemu alAAaleemu
Amazing!!! The verse says the opposite of what you say and you post it and leave it; arrogantly thinking your deception will go unnoticed?
Notice the type in bold in the translated post. Notice how you interpret it as "in" in one part and then "upon" in the next part of the verse to purposely deceive your readers. The verse essentially says that Allah(swt) is the G-d of everything, Heaven and Earth everything!!! you are a dajjal, and no amount of posturing and childish comment about the absence of someone on an internet forum, or false acceptance of false info from a fellow "christian" will change that. As for your previous comment, you could never make me upset, i tell you, i am laughing
43.84 And He, whomin the heavens, God, andupon the earth, God, and He, the wise, the one who knows.
We all know that “allah” was never God on earth.
am i the only one who sees this deliberate deception? applepie , i want you to define for me henotheism, and then i want you to re-read all my posts in response to you, and answer all of my questions. Stop playing around and tell us why your understanding of Arabic is the correct one.
NEW question: prove that Islam and Qur'an are something different, don't just assert it, prove it.
However, Jesus was…a human being...tell me applepie what a false analogy is and reflect on the answer, and then re-read all of your recent posts in relation to this topic you are obsessed with.
Walahu A'lam
and peace unto you brotherP.E.A.C.E and Blessings ABUHANIFAH...
Eye don't know if eye would call my Self a Nuwaubian. Eye definitely follow the mindset of Nuwaubu (question, never believe), and many of the teachings of the Master Teacher Dr. Malachi Z. York. But eye'm also one not to limit my Self through labels.
Suprised to Cee another who knows of Nuwaubu on this board.
HETEP to U
We use cookies and similar technologies for the following purposes:
Do you accept cookies and these technologies?
We use cookies and similar technologies for the following purposes:
Do you accept cookies and these technologies?