Jesus is a God of conditional Love, not unconditional love. (3)

[razzelflabben]

and if the people don't follow him the price they pay from a God you think love everyone is eternal death!

Man's choice, not God's. Remember, God says, Isaiah 30:18 Yet the LORD longs to be gracious to you; he rises to show you compassion. For the LORD is a God of justice. Blessed are all who wait for him!

what a price to pay if a person don't believe in a God that loves everyone.

everyone on this earth don't follow or believe in Jesus

everyone on this earth don't have one once of faith in Jesus

yet you think he loves them.

He does love them, He loves them enough to make a way for them, their refusal to accept the way is their fault, not HIS. Just because you are given a present, doesn't mean you have to accept it and if you don't accept it, it doesn't suddenly mean it wasn't offered.

 

[ARBITER01]

are u watching me?

Jesus is a legalist!

I'm in Good company!

I rather be a legalist than a illegalist!

hahaha, you're so cute!

But still wrong.

 

[razzelflabben]

it is marked by many things which is obedience, we are to obey all the things you said and more like keeping the commandment which Jesus said from his own mouth.

HOW DO I LOVE GOD AND HOW DOES GOD LOVE ME IN THIS CHAPTER?
WHERE IS THE DEFINITION OF Love IN THIS CHAPTER?

as I have said many times now, this is not a definition of love but rather it is a list of things that identify love, so asking me where the definition is in this chapter shows a total lack of reading my posts for meaning on your part.

HOW DO THIS CHAPTER TEACH THE BABE THE MEANING OF LOVE?

again, I never once suggested this was the definition of love, so I don't have any understanding of what you intend from asking something I did not claim.

The short definition of love is not I Cor. 13, the definition of love is not I Cor. 13. However, I Cor. 13 will tell us what love looks like, how it behaves. It will show us how to identify love, which was how I used the passage to answer the question you ask about how to love others.

 

[razzelflabben]

SISTER

the verse is self explanatory

1 John 5:3
For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous.

this is the love of GOD,

notice it says the love of GOD,

not our love,

the love of GOD

actually, in context, it is our love for God but then again, you have to know this by now, we've gone over it enough. And no where in the passage (that I can find) does it say that God stops loving us if we disobey, this is something you are making up then accusing us of being too blind to see it. If it's there, just highlight it so that our blind eyes can see it, otherwise admit it is your made up interpretation of what it says and let us all move on.

is what?

notice it says that we keep his commandments

that WE keep his commandment

See, the context of the verse, and every logical thinking person knows the context is correct, when it says that this is how we love God, not how God loves us.

 

[razzelflabben]

Sister

the same verse count because it has been there long before us.

I doubt that sister if people here have read more verses that I have put in this thread alone.

on the topic of Godly love or unconditional love

these verse are not said in your average denominational church and non-denominational church

1 John 5:3
For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous.

John 14:15
If ye love me, keep my commandments.

actually, I know very few churches that don't teach John...but then again, you have never been one to show a true understanding of what it means to claim someone holds to denomination traditions over teaching, so I would expect this to have been missed by you....most churches teach John, dear deceived one.

a matter of fact this is not taught in the churches because most christian churches teach the law is no more.

okay, I have to ask you to site your evidence on this claim...

Sister

consider

here on this site you have people calling me a legalist because I tell them they have to keep the commandments

that is because you refuse to accept that our salvation is not by works lest any man should boast. Shall I show you that passage as well. It doesn't mean that we are not to obey, in fact, Paul goes into a long discussion about how grace doesn't mean we stop obeying, but rather that it is by grace that we are able to be without sin. I posted the passage before, why didn't you read it and consider it?

why such foolishness?

because you refuse to accept the role grace plays in our salvation. That is why the "foolishness" because it is an attempt to counter your foolishness of works salvation. The pendulum swing is without doubt problematic, but that is why it is there.

even on this thread

people talk about there children and how much they the love them,

I bet they don't teach there children to steal, kill, lie, dishonour their parents,

yet these people who claim that the law is no more would tell an adult or worse yet a christian who they are supposed to love so much, they would say such none sense as

I haven't heard anyone here say the law is no more...it would appear you are reading into posts what is not there. It might be helpful if you put down your sword long enough to discover if those you are attacking are the enemy or not.

"the law is done away with"

"we are not under the law anymore"

how can you tell someone to steal, kill, lie, have other God's before me, take my name in vain. covet, etc

the condition for God's love is keep his commandments period!!!

In fact, just the opposite has been told to you time and time and time again.

The law is important, obeying the law is the mark of our love for God. But the discussion is about God's love for man. no one here has said that God loves us by removing the law, that is just your mind playing tricks on you. What is being said is that even when we were sinners (law breakers) God loves us enough to draw us into a right relationship with Him, so that we would see the value of obedience and put forth the effort to love God with our obedience.

Notice the law did not disappear in the above paragraph, but rather that the love compels us to a greater obedience.

 

[Light hearted]

LH

also let me show you how flawed your statement is

God would not give man something he can't keep

He said this about these 3 men

Genesis 6:9
These are the generations of Noah: Noah was a just man and perfect in his generations, and Noah walked with God.

Genesis 17:1
And when Abram was ninety years old and nine, the LORD appeared to Abram, and said unto him, I am the Almighty God; walk before me, and be thou perfect.


Job 1:1
There was a man in the land of Uz, whose name was Job; and that man was perfect and upright, and one that feared God, and eschewed evil.

GOD SAID THESE MEN WERE PERFECT AND UPRIGHT who are you to say what can't be done when God said it can?

shame on you!!!



JESUS!

Lets eliminate the first two men, since they were not under the burden of the law...Before Moses time.

Rom 5:13 Yes, people sinned even before the law was given. But it was not counted as sin because there was not yet any law to break.

Just as a police man cannot write a ticket before there is acually a law. Once God created the laws, he couldn't hold the Israelites accountable for their actions. But after the law was given, some 3000 perished, wow.


Job. hmmm... Pride Ozell, does this ring a bell? Job 42:6 pride. God rang his bell and he what? Repented. if as you say he was perfect, why repent. The law makes you self-righteous, a humbling of the heart creates God's righteousness.

Once again you take the word righteous and up-standing incorrectly. You seem to think their actions as being perfect. Turn to Hebrews 11. By Faith, by faith, by faith, by faith.

You try to smack people on the head with you pre-Jesus sacrifice law. Even you have failed repeatedly. Look closely at your own eye and pluck the plank it it before comdemning someone else with the law that you push.

38 “Brothers, listen! We are here to proclaim that through this man Jesus there is forgiveness for your sins. 39 Everyone who believes in him is declared right with God—something the law of Moses could never do.

I believe it says "could never do". The law, after all those years of man trying to follow perfectly, failed. So yes, I can say God gave man a set of laws he knew they could'nt keep. The laws were never to be achievable by mortal man, it was to show man it's faults and un-Holiness, and humble to a Holy God.

Gal 11 So it is clear that no one can be made right with God by trying to keep the law. For the Scriptures say, “It is through faith that a righteous person has life.”

The laws were a works driven covenant, not by faith. If they truely had faith in God as they wandered the wilderness before the law was given perhaps God would have given a covenant of Grace. But even after all the miracles he performed, they continued to murmer against God, no faith.

James 2:10


10 For the person who keeps all of the laws except one is as guilty as a person who has broken all of God’s laws.

Ozell, we've seen you break laws with your lack of proper interpertation of scriture here on this thread. You do realize it is as if you have broken every law God made?

How do you make attonement for your sins? There is no animal sacrifice anymore. Now that you've been told of the saving Grace of Jesus Christ, and have refused the Holy Spirit, you do know there is no other sacrifice for you to give. You also know that your works trying to follow the law is useless also, you are now backed into a corner, a dark sinful corner. What are your options other than to bow down to a Holy God and ask for forgiveness?

If you deny that you are a sinner, what advice would you give me an admitted sinner, to clear me of my sins and be righteous in God's eyes?

 

[tackattack]

The law makes you self-righteous, a humbling of the heart creates God's righteousness.

You try to smack people on the head with you pre-Jesus sacrifice law. Even you have failed repeatedly. Look closely at your own eye and pluck the plank it it before comdemning someone else with the law that you push.



The laws were a works driven covenant, not by faith. If they truely had faith in God as they wandered the wilderness before the law was given perhaps God would have given a covenant of Grace. But even after all the miracles he performed, they continued to murmer against God, no faith.


If you deny that you are a sinner, what advice would you give me an admitted sinner, to clear me of my sins and be righteous in God's eyes?

Amen and never were truer words spoken. I'd like to see Ozell answer the question, but looking back it's not likely, but anything's possible with the grace of God. We all have to allow room fro God's miracles.

 

[BiblebelievingChristian]

There is no sin that is so great that God won't forgive if we repent and sincerely ask for His forgiveness. That's how God's love is unconditional.

 

[jeremyloo]

Let us understand the heart of our Father.

The question is, does our Father send His Son, Jesus before we love Him or after we loved Him.

John 3:16 "For God so loved the world, that He gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life."

If we say God's love is conditional, then Jesus would not have come. Cos we as human from Adam's fall has never loved God.

If we say Jesus came because there are some people (if that is true) loved God with all their hearts, then how can the scripture say "For God so loved the world"? It should say "God God so loved some people".

From John 3:16, we know that our Father's love is unconditional.

In 1John 4:19 "We love because He first loved us.". Which came first? His love for us or we loved Him first?

In the New Testament, we can see that God's love for us came first which is unconditional. And through this unconditional love that He has given us, we are transformed and strengthen to love Him...it is not the other way round.

Other scriptures that will help you.
Eph 2:4 But God, being rich in mercy, because of the great love with which He loved us,
Eph 2:5 even when we were dead in our trespasses, made us alive together with Christ--by grace you have been saved--
Rom 2:4 Or do you presume on the riches of his kindness and forbearance and patience, not knowing that God's kindness is meant to lead you to repentance?

Shalom,

Jeremy Loo

 

[Bob Barnes]

God's love is unconditional, He loves everybody so much that He sent His Son to die for our sins, all you have to do is accept that gift.

 

[ozell]

Lets eliminate the first two men, since they were not under the burden of the law...Before Moses time.

Rom 5:13 Yes, people sinned even before the law was given. But it was not counted as sin because there was not yet any law to break.

Just as a police man cannot write a ticket before there is acually a law. Once God created the laws, he couldn't hold the Israelites accountable for their actions. But after the law was given, some 3000 perished, wow.


Job. hmmm... Pride Ozell, does this ring a bell? Job 42:6 pride. God rang his bell and he what? Repented. if as you say he was perfect, why repent. The law makes you self-righteous, a humbling of the heart creates God's righteousness.

Once again you take the word righteous and up-standing incorrectly. You seem to think their actions as being perfect. Turn to Hebrews 11. By Faith, by faith, by faith, by faith.

You try to smack people on the head with you pre-Jesus sacrifice law. Even you have failed repeatedly. Look closely at your own eye and pluck the plank it it before comdemning someone else with the law that you push.

38 “Brothers, listen! We are here to proclaim that through this man Jesus there is forgiveness for your sins. 39 Everyone who believes in him is declared right with God—something the law of Moses could never do.

I believe it says "could never do". The law, after all those years of man trying to follow perfectly, failed. So yes, I can say God gave man a set of laws he knew they could'nt keep. The laws were never to be achievable by mortal man, it was to show man it's faults and un-Holiness, and humble to a Holy God.

Gal 11 So it is clear that no one can be made right with God by trying to keep the law. For the Scriptures say, “It is through faith that a righteous person has life.”

The laws were a works driven covenant, not by faith. If they truely had faith in God as they wandered the wilderness before the law was given perhaps God would have given a covenant of Grace. But even after all the miracles he performed, they continued to murmer against God, no faith.

James 2:10


10 For the person who keeps all of the laws except one is as guilty as a person who has broken all of God’s laws.

Ozell, we've seen you break laws with your lack of proper interpertation of scriture here on this thread. You do realize it is as if you have broken every law God made?

How do you make attonement for your sins? There is no animal sacrifice anymore. Now that you've been told of the saving Grace of Jesus Christ, and have refused the Holy Spirit, you do know there is no other sacrifice for you to give. You also know that your works trying to follow the law is useless also, you are now backed into a corner, a dark sinful corner. What are your options other than to bow down to a Holy God and ask for forgiveness?

If you deny that you are a sinner, what advice would you give me an admitted sinner, to clear me of my sins and be righteous in God's eyes?

LH

wow!

our level of understanding is very vast.

I don't keep animal sacrifice nor do I teach other to.

The only law that was replaced on the cross is animal sacrifice.

I sin Brother,

all men have sinned,

I pray and ask for fogiveness

all men don't ask for forgiveness

if you have faith in Jesus you would do everything Jesus say do, correct?

then you would keep his commandments!

by the way my Brother

you can't eliminate perfect and upright people, God said they were perfect and upright.

to be perfect and upright

stealing, killing, committing adultery, having other God's before Jesus, bowing down to other God's is not permitted.

what do you think?

 

[ozell]

hahaha, you're so cute!

But still wrong.

you like that huh!

if I'm and leagalist are you a illegalist, since you don't keep the commandments

do you steal, kill, commitadultery, fornicate, have other God's beside Jesus?

do ya?

let me ask you this do you love Jesus knowing you don't keep his commandments?

 

[ozell]

Man's choice, not God's. Remember, God says, Isaiah 30:18 Yet the LORD longs to be gracious to you; he rises to show you compassion. For the LORD is a God of justice. Blessed are all who wait for him! He does love them, He loves them enough to make a way for them, their refusal to accept the way is their fault, not HIS. Just because you are given a present, doesn't mean you have to accept it and if you don't accept it, it doesn't suddenly mean it wasn't offered.

Sister

Please lets reason together

would you put your children in alake of fire if you loved them no matter what they do?
God will not put the children he love in a lake of fire!!!!

 

[ozell]

as I have said many times now, this is not a definition of love but rather it is a list of things that identify love, so asking me where the definition is in this chapter shows a total lack of reading my posts for meaning on your part. again, I never once suggested this was the definition of love, so I don't have any understanding of what you intend from asking something I did not claim.

The short definition of love is not I Cor. 13, the definition of love is not I Cor. 13. However, I Cor. 13 will tell us what love looks like, how it behaves. It will show us how to identify love, which was how I used the passage to answer the question you ask about how to love others.

this is your definition of Love?

the definiton of love in the bible is the Keeping of God's commandments
we love him when we keep it.
he loves us when we keep it

1 John 5:3
For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous.

John 14:15
If ye love me, keep my commandments.

 

[ozell]

There is no sin that is so great that God won't forgive if we repent and sincerely ask for His forgiveness. That's how God's love is unconditional.

the bible say if you blaspheme the holy ghost what is the conditions?

if a person sin what is the condition? hint it is in your post.

please

lets reason together

if a man sin the condition is to repent and ask for forgiveness

if a man blaspheme the holy ghost can he be forgiving according to the bible?

 

[ozell]

God's love is unconditional, He loves everybody so much that He sent His Son to die for our sins, all you have to do is accept that gift.

so the condition is to accept the gift?

what if a christian, hindu or muslim don't accept the gift?

then what?

 

[ozell]

Jesus LOVES every one of his children. His children choose whether to accept God as their savior or not. Even if some go to hell, he still LOVES them.

Your God loves all his children even the ones that he puts in a fire burning with brimstone, where the body forever burns and worms forever chew on?

the God you serve will put a person he love in this?



please lets reason together!!!

 

[ozell]

we have some people on this thread who obviously don't understand the lake of fire!!!

would you put your family in the lake of fire who you say you love?

do you really believe Jesus will put the people he love in the lake of fire?

 

[razzelflabben]

Sister

Please lets reason together

please, let's do....let's reason together.

would you put your children in alake of fire if you loved them no matter what they do?

reason number one...scripture tells us that our ways are not God's ways....we already saw that passage a host of times, but if you will finally read it and consider it I'll be happy to resubmit it.

Reason number two...Hell is the consequence of sin, not the punishment for. Again, we have seen this passage many times over, but I can resubmit it if you will consider it this time.

Reason number three...Justice and judgment are part of love, not opposite to it. We presented lots of passages showing that.

Now, as we struggle to reason together, keeping in mind the above reasonings,

We also see only the temporal with our children, God sees the eternal, which means that we can't fully understand what God is saying or doing.
Because of this, we cannot answer the question apart from understanding it by man's experiences. In man's experiences, their love for a child, does not stop them from trying to present a child from facing bad consequence. (Just as God tries to prevent us from going to hell.) As a parent, I try to prevent unwanted consequences (hell) but I can't prevent them. Now that being said, as a loving parent, I must judge, with fairness if at all possible, the behavior of my children so that I know whether or not they need corrected. (justice and judgment). If I fail to judge rightly, the child will not learn how to avoid the bad consequences (hell) I wish for them to avoid.

God will not put the children he love in a lake of fire!!!!

No, but the children God loves will put themselves in the lake of fire. Which is the problem. You are refusing to make man responsible for their own choices. by doing this, you blame God for what is not His thus allowing Him to appear "evil".

 

[razzelflabben]

this is your definition of Love?

the definiton of love in the bible is the Keeping of God's commandments
we love him when we keep it.
he loves us when we keep it

Ozell dear one, I have shown you tons of passages that say you are missing the mark here and you simply pretend they weren't provided. You need to start reading scripture for what it says, not for what you want it to say....let me start with a single passage for you to read, maybe you are simply overwhelmed by the sheer number of passages I presented you with....Phil. 2 1 Therefore if you have any encouragement from being united with Christ, if any comfort from his love, if any common sharing in the Spirit, if any tenderness and compassion, 2 then make my joy complete by being like-minded, having the same love, being one in spirit and of one mind. 3 Do nothing out of selfish ambition or vain conceit. Rather, in humility value others above yourselves, 4 not looking to your own interests but each of you to the interests of the others. 5 In your relationships with one another, have the same mindset as Christ Jesus:
6 Who, being in very nature[a] God,
did not consider equality with God something to be used to his own advantage;
7 rather, he made himself nothing
by taking the very nature[b] of a servant,
being made in human likeness.
8 And being found in appearance as a man,
he humbled himself
by becoming obedient to death—
even death on a cross!



notice this is talking about love, the highlighted part is more definition, and then it goes into humility, something else we talked greatly about. Which is the same definition I gave you...guess what....God's words not mine.

1 John 5:3
For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous.

John 14:15
If ye love me, keep my commandments.

These are the marks of our love for God, not the definition of love, much less the definition of God's love for man.