Jesus is a God of conditional Love, not unconditional love. (2)

[razzelflabben]

where do it say study the scriptures with passion?

Wow, really? You claimed I didn't read the passage, I responded that I not only read it beforehand but studied it and this is how you respond...no matter you don't understand scripture any better than you do....wait, that last line was out of control, I shouldn't have said it out loud...my apologies.

Iv told you many time take the emotions out of your study and study for knoweldge of God

actually, I have, I could suggest the same of you...but then it would be a tit for tat rather than an actual discussion of God's amazing and unconditional love. Personally, I would rather discussion God's love than your flaws.

2Tm 2:15 Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.

this is how and why I know your knowledge is limited,

your response do not add up to God's words!

its still denominational teaching

actually, all the scriptures I presented testify otherwise.

 

[razzelflabben]

I guess God loved those who did not get on the ark, even after the Lord shut the door

15: And they went in unto Noah into the ark, two and two of all flesh, wherein is the breath of life.
16: And they that went in, went in male and female of all flesh, as God had commanded him: and the LORD shut him in.
17: And the flood was forty days upon the earth; and the waters increased, and bare up the ark, and it was lift up above the earth.

Yep...you see, scripture tells us (and yes you have been shown the scripture repeatedly but refuse to accept it) that God's ways are not our ways. We see the temporal as the final, whereas God sees the eternal. We see death, God sees life. We see destruction and pride, God sees healing and humility. Your looking at it through the eyes of flesh, not the eyes of faith.

 

[razzelflabben]

BROTHER

before I waste time taking your suggetion

show mw the word context in the bible and where the Lord said read HIS word that way

again you come with denominational teaching

go back and read my thread oor go over to my interpretation thread and tell me what is God's way of reading and understanding his word.

let me ask you this question concerning the holy spirt

which I bet you don't know.

tell me your understanding concerning this spirit from Jesus that is holy?

Jn 6:63 It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.


is this spirit from Jesus holy? we already know its spirit because Jesus said so.

You two can hash this out, but not long ago, Ozell, you claimed that the "word" of God was not alive, not living...now you claim it is and use scripture to back it up...how can we believe anything you say when 1. you controdict yourself and 2. scripture tells us you are a liar without any truth..?

 

[razzelflabben]

Ozell, many times now you have brought up the flood and whether God loved the people who perished, so let's look at scripture and see what it says in scripture, God's own words

I Peter 3 8Finally, all of you, live in harmony with one another; be sympathetic, love as brothers, be compassionate and humble. 9Do not repay evil with evil or insult with insult, but with blessing, because to this you were called so that you may inherit a blessing. 10For,
"Whoever would love life
and see good days
must keep his tongue from evil
and his lips from deceitful speech.
11He must turn from evil and do good;
he must seek peace and pursue it.
12For the eyes of the Lord are on the righteous
and his ears are attentive to their prayer,
but the face of the Lord is against those who do evil."[a] 13Who is going to harm you if you are eager to do good? 14But even if you should suffer for what is right, you are blessed. "Do not fear what they fear[b]; do not be frightened."[c] 15But in your hearts set apart Christ as Lord. Always be prepared to give an answer to everyone who asks you to give the reason for the hope that you have. But do this with gentleness and respect, 16keeping a clear conscience, so that those who speak maliciously against your good behavior in Christ may be ashamed of their slander. 17It is better, if it is God's will, to suffer for doing good than for doing evil. 18For Christ died for sins once for all, the righteous for the unrighteous, to bring you to God. He was put to death in the body but made alive by the Spirit, 19through whom[d] also he went and preached to the spirits in prison 20who disobeyed long ago when God waited patiently in the days of Noah while the ark was being built. In it only a few people, eight in all, were saved through water, 21and this water symbolizes baptism that now saves you also—not the removal of dirt from the body but the pledge[e] of a good conscience toward God. It saves you by the resurrection of Jesus Christ, 22who has gone into heaven and is at God's right hand—with angels, authorities and powers in submission to him.


Not my words, but God's.

 

[JimR-OCDS]

17 pages to this thread and Ozell can't seem to grasp that what he is explaining is conditions for salvation, not God's love.

God loves us, despite our sinfulness.

We are saved through Jesus Christ, but God would not have come to save us in Jesus Christ had he not first loved us.

I don't know how to explain this in any other way.

Jim

 

[ozell]

You two can hash this out, but not long ago, Ozell, you claimed that the "word" of God was not alive, not living...now you claim it is and use scripture to back it up...how can we believe anything you say when 1. you controdict yourself and 2. scripture tells us you are a liar without any truth..?

Sister

find the post where I said that

Sister I am th emost watched poster on this site, there is no way the Mod's would have let that get by.

your emotions again are getting the best of you,

calm down, gather your thoughts, and use God's words to explain yourself.

when we continue to speak our own opinion as you have down in 99% of your post accusation and lies take over!!!

Sister
get a hold of yourself please!!

 

[ozell]

17 pages to this thread and Ozell can't seem to grasp that what he is explaining is conditions for salvation, not God's love.

God loves us, despite our sinfulness.

We are saved through Jesus Christ, but God would not have come to save us in Jesus Christ had he not first loved us.

I don't know how to explain this in any other way.

Jim

Jim all I can say is stop trying to explain false doctrine

Jesus love us this is true

Jesus love us with conditions

the condition is that we must keep his commandments

pay attention to what you said above

God loves us, despite our sinfulness

.

if you continue to live and die in sin, then what?

if you repent of your sins, then what?

what repent if God love you in your sinfulness?

Jim

quit insulting the people who are remorseful and repentful when they sin against God.

Jim lets read

apply this to yourself

1Jn 2:1 My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous:

Jim

if you won't repent of your sins

Isa 59:2 But your iniquities have separated between you and your God, and your sins have hid his face from you, that he will not hear.

your are separated from God

where is the Love of God if you are separated from him?
How can he love you if you continue to sin?
His face is hid from you
His ears will not hear you

 

[ozell]

Ozell, many times now you have brought up the flood and whether God loved the people who perished, so let's look at scripture and see what it says in scripture, God's own words

I Peter 3 8Finally, all of you, live in harmony with one another; be sympathetic, love as brothers, be compassionate and humble. 9Do not repay evil with evil or insult with insult, but with blessing, because to this you were called so that you may inherit a blessing. 10For,
"Whoever would love life
and see good days
must keep his tongue from evil
and his lips from deceitful speech.
11He must turn from evil and do good;
he must seek peace and pursue it.
12For the eyes of the Lord are on the righteous
and his ears are attentive to their prayer,
but the face of the Lord is against those who do evil."[a] 13Who is going to harm you if you are eager to do good? 14But even if you should suffer for what is right, you are blessed. "Do not fear what they fear[b]; do not be frightened."[c] 15But in your hearts set apart Christ as Lord. Always be prepared to give an answer to everyone who asks you to give the reason for the hope that you have. But do this with gentleness and respect, 16keeping a clear conscience, so that those who speak maliciously against your good behavior in Christ may be ashamed of their slander. 17It is better, if it is God's will, to suffer for doing good than for doing evil. 18For Christ died for sins once for all, the righteous for the unrighteous, to bring you to God. He was put to death in the body but made alive by the Spirit, 19through whom[d] also he went and preached to the spirits in prison 20who disobeyed long ago when God waited patiently in the days of Noah while the ark was being built. In it only a few people, eight in all, were saved through water, 21and this water symbolizes baptism that now saves you also—not the removal of dirt from the body but the pledge[e] of a good conscience toward God. It saves you by the resurrection of Jesus Christ, 22who has gone into heaven and is at God's right hand—with angels, authorities and powers in submission to him.


Not my words, but God's.

lets look at it again Sister for your sake

PAY ATTENTION TO WHAT IS HIGHLIGHTED

8: Finally, be ye all of one mind, having compassion one of another, love as brethren, be pitiful, be courteous:
9: Not rendering evil for evil, or railing for railing: but contrariwise blessing; knowing that ye are thereunto called, that ye should inherit a blessing.
10: For he that will love life, and see good days, let him refrain his tongue from evil, and his lips that they speak no guile:
11: Let him eschew evil, and do good; let him seek peace, and ensue it.
12: For the eyes of the Lord are over the righteous, and his ears are open unto their prayers: but the face of the Lord is against them that do evil.
13: And who is he that will harm you, if ye be followers of that which is good?
14: But and if ye suffer for righteousness' sake, happy are ye: and be not afraid of their terror, neither be troubled;
15: But sanctify the Lord God in your hearts: and be ready always to give an answer to every man that asketh you a reason of the hope that is in you with meekness and fear:
16: Having a good conscience; that, whereas they speak evil of you, as of evildoers, they may be ashamed that falsely accuse your good conversation in Christ.
17: For it is better, if the will of God be so, that ye suffer for well doing, than for evil doing.
18: For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit:
19: By which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison;
20: Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water.
21: The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ:
22: Who is gone into heaven, and is on the right hand of God; angels and authorities and powers being made subject unto him.

take the 8 people who got on the ark, the people on the ark the Lord said

Gen 6:8 But Noah found grace in the eyes of the LORD.
9: These are the generations of Noah: Noah was a just man and perfect in his generations, and Noah walked with God.

1Peter 3v12: For the eyes of the Lord are over the righteous, and his ears are open unto their prayers:

and take all the people who did not get on the ark, lets look at what the Lord said about them

but the face of the Lord is against them that do evil.

Gen 6v5: And GOD saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every imagination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually.
6: And it repented the LORD that he had made man on the earth, and it grieved him at his heart.
7: And the LORD said, I will destroy man whom I have created from the face of the earth; both man, and beast, and the creeping thing, and the fowls of the air; for it repenteth me that I have made them.

Your God of unconditional love killed these people even though you preach and teach he loves everyone!!

the God of conditional love said in the verse that you quoted

1Peter 3v12: For the eyes of the Lord are over the righteous, and his ears are open unto their prayers:
but the face of the Lord is against them that do evil

 

[ozell]

Originally Posted by ozell

I guess God loved those who did not get on the ark, even after the Lord shut the door

15: And they went in unto Noah into the ark, two and two of all flesh, wherein is the breath of life.
16: And they that went in, went in male and female of all flesh, as God had commanded him: and the LORD shut him in.
17: And the flood was forty days upon the earth; and the waters increased, and bare up the ark, and it was lift up above the earth.
​

Yep...you see, scripture tells us (and yes you have been shown the scripture repeatedly but refuse to accept it) that God's ways are not our ways. We see the temporal as the final, whereas God sees the eternal. We see death, God sees life. We see destruction and pride, God sees healing and humility. Your looking at it through the eyes of flesh, not the eyes of faith.

where are you leaning this stuff you say from!!

what do this have to do with anything in the post?

 

[ozell]

Ananias and Sapphira are both safe and secure because they put their faith and trust in Jesus. They believed on His name. (What must I do to be saved? 'Believe on the name of Jesus Christ') However, the consequences of their sin was horrific as God used them as an example in the Church against lying in the presence of witnesses and the Holy Spirit. They died as a consequence. They have been saved, and they still are. But does a sin of lying to the Spirit separate us from the love of God? No! If it did, every time I lied or looked lustfully at a woman I'd recieve conditional love. But thanks be to God He has unconditional love for his children.

By the way, "If you love Me, keep My commandments" says nothing about Jesus' love, it talks about OUR love for Him. Then, if we do, we try to keep His commandments. If we fail, He still loves us. Unconditional. Period.

And I am a non-denominational believer. Community Bible Fellowship in El Paso, IL.

they died for breaking the commandment of lying and covetousness

pay attention non denominational believer

Jn 14:15 If ye love me, keep my commandments.

did theY love the Lord by lying?

1Jn 5:3 For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous.

can the Lord love them since they broke his commandments?

keep in mind they died in there sins!!!

Jn 8:21 Then said Jesus again unto them, I go my way, and ye shall seek me, and shall die in your sins: whither I go, ye cannot come.

Jn 8:24 I said therefore unto you, that ye shall die in your sins: for if ye believe not that I am he, ye shall die in your sins.

what way can we not die in our sins?

1Jn 2:1 My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous:

Lk 13:3 I tell you, Nay: but, except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish.
Lk 13:5 I tell you, Nay: but, except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish.

 

[razzelflabben]

Sister

find the post where I said that

Sister I am th emost watched poster on this site, there is no way the Mod's would have let that get by.

your emotions again are getting the best of you,

dear one, when you first made the claim I asked you about it and you ignored the post. There is no way I will allow my emotions to govern what I say on this board by taking more time with someone who refuses to hear and once again read all the posts by Ozell that repeat the same lies without ever offering meat to chew on. That simply isn't gonna happen dear one. It is a matter of public record and if you want to ignore what you said and not respond with any kind of explanation or correction, that if your problem not mine. It would be helpful however, if you respond to things asked of you and stop trying to use emotions as your ace in the hole, because those of us who withhold our emotions will not fall prey and you will never win. The ace in the hole for every single person who calls themselves Christ's, should be scripture, which is the ace you have been shown.

calm down, gather your thoughts, and use God's words to explain yourself.

this after pages and pages of biblical references that testify to what I am saying to you...see, this false witness is what identifies you through scripture as being a liar with not truth. It isn't me calling you this, it's scripture. A scripture that sheds light in the darkness, and truth to the lies of this world. You have been shown the light and your heart has been revealed by that light. Now the question is what you will do with it. I have presented tons of scripture and begged you to allow me to send you even more, and still you accuse me of not posting scripture. This is false witness, see what God says about those that bear false witness, especially when it is the same lie you have tried from the beginning of this thread all the way to now.

when we continue to speak our own opinion as you have down in 99% of your post accusation and lies take over!!!

Sister
get a hold of yourself please!!

try again, I refuse to be flamed by you, scripture alone is all I need, and scripture shows you to be wrong and to be without truth.

 

[ozell]

Brother, I want to encourage you in the everlasting love of the Lord (Psalm 106:1). I shouldn't have said you are causing dissention. But I used to believe very strongly, coming out of a particular church, that God's love was also conditional. I still have times where the enemy places ideas and thoughts in my mind that tell me that after I have sinned, God doesn't love me anymore. But through listening to the word preached, the Holy Spirit in me is teaching me the everlasting love of God. No, the word unconditional I can't find in the bible. But everlasting, longsuffering, patient I can. Plus there are verses like

Jeremiah 31:3 .... I have loved you with an everlasting love; Therefore I have drawn you with lovingkindness.

Here's one that explains His unconditional love in the case of Israel's sins where He punishes them:

Isaiah 54:7-8 For a brief moment I forsook you, but with great compassion I will gather you. In an outburst of anger I hid My face from you for a moment, But with everlasting lovingkindness I will have compassion on you, says the LORD your Redeemer.

Isaiah 54:10 ...But My lovingkindness will not be removed from you...

Love has discipline along with it that may appear to be unloving, or the devil may tempt you to believe it's not loving, but we know that God chastens every son He recieves.

I know what you're going thru. I'm sorry if I upset you at all.

Do you want to believe God's love is unconditional, but just can't because the evidence seems against it? God knows your heart and the Holy Spirit will save you from this trap.

Jesus said

Jn 14:15 If ye love me, keep my commandments

after his death Jesus ad written

1Jn 5:3 For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous.

this is so simple!!!!

 

[ozell]

dear one, when you first made the claim I asked you about it and you ignored the post. There is no way I will allow my emotions to govern what I say on this board by taking more time with someone who refuses to hear and once again read all the posts by Ozell that repeat the same lies without ever offering meat to chew on. That simply isn't gonna happen dear one. It is a matter of public record and if you want to ignore what you said and not respond with any kind of explanation or correction, that if your problem not mine. It would be helpful however, if you respond to things asked of you and stop trying to use emotions as your ace in the hole, because those of us who withhold our emotions will not fall prey and you will never win. The ace in the hole for every single person who calls themselves Christ's, should be scripture, which is the ace you have been shown. this after pages and pages of biblical references that testify to what I am saying to you...see, this false witness is what identifies you through scripture as being a liar with not truth. It isn't me calling you this, it's scripture. A scripture that sheds light in the darkness, and truth to the lies of this world. You have been shown the light and your heart has been revealed by that light. Now the question is what you will do with it. I have presented tons of scripture and begged you to allow me to send you even more, and still you accuse me of not posting scripture. This is false witness, see what God says about those that bear false witness, especially when it is the same lie you have tried from the beginning of this thread all the way to now.
try again, I refuse to be flamed by you, scripture alone is all I need, and scripture shows you to be wrong and to be without truth.

find the post!!!

 

[ozell]

the God of unconditionally love would do this?


surely Elijah misspoke???????

1kings 17

17: And it came to pass after these things, that the son of the woman, the mistress of the house, fell sick; and his sickness was so sore, that there was no breath left in him.
18: And she said unto Elijah, What have I to do with thee, O thou man of God? art thou come unto me to call my sin to remembrance, and to slay my son?
19: And he said unto her, Give me thy son. And he took him out of her bosom, and carried him up into a loft, where he abode, and laid him upon his own bed.
20: And he cried unto the LORD, and said, O LORD my God, hast thou also brought evil upon the widow with whom I sojourn, by slaying her son?
21: And he stretched himself upon the child three times, and cried unto the LORD, and said, O LORD my God, I pray thee, let this child's soul come into him again.
22: And the LORD heard the voice of Elijah; and the soul of the child came into him again, and he revived.
23: And Elijah took the child, and brought him down out of the chamber into the house, and delivered him unto his mother: and Elijah said, See, thy son liveth.
24: And the woman said to Elijah, Now by this I know that thou art a man of God, and that the word of the LORD in thy mouth is truth.

 

[razzelflabben]

lets look at it again Sister for your sake

PAY ATTENTION TO WHAT IS HIGHLIGHTED

8: Finally, be ye all of one mind, having compassion one of another, love as brethren, be pitiful, be courteous:
9: Not rendering evil for evil, or railing for railing: but contrariwise blessing; knowing that ye are thereunto called, that ye should inherit a blessing.
10: For he that will love life, and see good days, let him refrain his tongue from evil, and his lips that they speak no guile:
11: Let him eschew evil, and do good; let him seek peace, and ensue it.
12: For the eyes of the Lord are over the righteous, and his ears are open unto their prayers: but the face of the Lord is against them that do evil.
13: And who is he that will harm you, if ye be followers of that which is good?
14: But and if ye suffer for righteousness' sake, happy are ye: and be not afraid of their terror, neither be troubled;
15: But sanctify the Lord God in your hearts: and be ready always to give an answer to every man that asketh you a reason of the hope that is in you with meekness and fear:
16: Having a good conscience; that, whereas they speak evil of you, as of evildoers, they may be ashamed that falsely accuse your good conversation in Christ.
17: For it is better, if the will of God be so, that ye suffer for well doing, than for evil doing.
18: For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit:
19: By which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison;
20: Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water.
21: The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ:
22: Who is gone into heaven, and is on the right hand of God; angels and authorities and powers being made subject unto him.

take the 8 people who got on the ark, the people on the ark the Lord said

Gen 6:8 But Noah found grace in the eyes of the LORD.
9: These are the generations of Noah: Noah was a just man and perfect in his generations, and Noah walked with God.

1Peter 3v12: For the eyes of the Lord are over the righteous, and his ears are open unto their prayers:

and take all the people who did not get on the ark, lets look at what the Lord said about them

but the face of the Lord is against them that do evil.

Gen 6v5: And GOD saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every imagination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually.
6: And it repented the LORD that he had made man on the earth, and it grieved him at his heart.
7: And the LORD said, I will destroy man whom I have created from the face of the earth; both man, and beast, and the creeping thing, and the fowls of the air; for it repenteth me that I have made them.

Your God of unconditional love killed these people even though you preach and teach he loves everyone!!

the God of conditional love said in the verse that you quoted

1Peter 3v12: For the eyes of the Lord are over the righteous, and his ears are open unto their prayers:
but the face of the Lord is against them that do evil

you keep trying to see God through the justification eyes of man, and refuse to attempt to see Him through the spiritual eyes of faith. Until you figure out that we see God through the eyes of faith, a faith that understands...Isaiah 55:8 "For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways," declares the LORD.

Isaiah 65:2 All day long I have held out my hands to an obstinate people, who walk in ways not good, pursuing their own imaginations--

And this is the very same God who gave us this verse, the definative word on God's unconditional love...Isaiah 53:6 We all, like sheep, have gone astray, each of us has turned to his own way; and the LORD has laid on him the iniquity of us all

Even in our sin, when we were enemies, God loves us unto salvation. That is the very meaning of unconditional love. To be loved, no matter what I do or don't do....btw, the meaning of real love, includes this idea as well. It's an important part of understanding both love and God.

 

[razzelflabben]

Originally Posted by ozell

I guess God loved those who did not get on the ark, even after the Lord shut the door

15: And they went in unto Noah into the ark, two and two of all flesh, wherein is the breath of life.
16: And they that went in, went in male and female of all flesh, as God had commanded him: and the LORD shut him in.
17: And the flood was forty days upon the earth; and the waters increased, and bare up the ark, and it was lift up above the earth.
​

where are you leaning this stuff you say from!!

what do this have to do with anything in the post?

what don't your understand, I just posted the scripture yet again...Isaiah 55:8 "For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways," declares the LORD.

Is it really that hard of a scripture for you to follow? I don't know, I am really grasping at straws trying to figure out what you aren't getting, it may sound like I am flaming or something, but I really am not, I don't understand how you could possibly read scripture and not understand what this clear, plainly spoken, passage is saying.

 

[razzelflabben]

they died for breaking the commandment of lying and covetousness

pay attention non denominational believer

in the famous words from the Princess Bride, "you keep using that word, I don't think it means what you think it means"

 

[Christownsme]

Ozell,
Don't you know that by your own words you are condemning yourself? You can't find eternal life thru a conditional loving God. You'll sin too often. You're only human. He'll stop loving you, and all of a sudden you'll die and rot in hell. That's not the Love of God!! You know it, too, I believe. You like to argue.

You need to pray for mercy, that God would show you what love is. I have the same problem sometimes. But I'm not going to condemn myself by what I don't understand. We're to lean on God, not our own understanding, and come to Jesus as a child. If you're trying to make a point, you've made it: you're not choosing God, you're choosing evil. I plead for you, don't play games with God's Holy Word. Choose life.

 

[JimR-OCDS]

Ozell,
let me ask you something.

Do you love anyone, i.e. child, mother, father, friend?

If they do wrong to you, do you stop loving them until they repent and ask for your forgiveness?


Jim

 

[razzelflabben]

Ozell,
let me ask you something.

Do you love anyone, i.e. child, mother, father, friend?

If they do wrong to you, do you stop loving them until they repent and ask for your forgiveness?


Jim

forgiveness is part of love...how could you not love and still accept their apology? Ozell has been asked this question before and refused to answer, so I thought I'd ask you or anyone and see if I could get a better handle on the idea of conditional love. conditional love isn't love at all, and would not allow forgiveness, so how could one forgive someone if all love is removed?