Jesus In Hell?

[Renton405]

Hi brother,

1 Peter 3:19 said about what Jesus did on that 3 days. Notice that hell is not the prison of fallen angels.

Also notice in Acts 2:31 below said Jesus was in Hades/graves, which is the place of the dead, not yet to the eternal fire.



1Pe 3:18 For Christ also suffered once for sins, the righteous for the unrighteous, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh but made alive in the spirit,
1Pe 3:19 in which he went and proclaimed to the spirits in prison,
1Pe 3:20 because they formerly did not obey, when God's patience waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was being prepared, in which a few, that is, eight persons, were brought safely through water.



Act 2:31 he foresaw and spoke about the resurrection of the Christ, that he was not abandoned to Hades, nor did his flesh see corruption.

Yes, he proclaimed the gospel to the people in sheol who died before the crucifiction..

 

[Fireinfolding]

My Goodness!

I liked your post....you are giving me pause to question, please expound further !

Peace

SpiritDriven, Im not sure you were even adressing me, only that your reply followed my post. I'm no "teacher" I just used to look at things by comparing "natural truths" not spiritual ones. I started out comparing "natural things to natural things" (ie physical death) the substance of the soul (after a carnal truth) in relation to these things. A bit of confusion began to set in when there was a "mixture" (in my comparing) going from that into "natural things" and comparing them to "spiritual things", yet I was not rightly balanced (in the comparisons). The goal (in weighing a thing out) was comparing "spiritual things with spiritual". Its almost like our minds being renewed to receive what once wrought confusion. Its not "natural with natural" (or even the next stage) "natural with spiritual" BUT spiritual with spiritual. Like three stages (as our minds are being washed) and renewed concerning our comprehension. I'm still learning myself.

God said, "ye shall die" (after one tree) and the Serpent said, "ye shall not surely die" what doctrine is it thats so evil IF in fact it was Jesus (representing the other tree) Who said, "if a man keep my saying he shall never see death" as well as if a man live (though he were dead) and believeth on me He shall never die and specifically asks, "believest THOU THIS"?

It was on this specifically (if you notice) the Jews (seeing after a carnal truth) not spiritual truth who heard what our Lord Himself spake (and attributed it to the devil) that ol serpent. The Lords words (to them) represented what appeared to echo that attributed to the Serpent (in their estimation).

They said to Him....

John 8:52 Now ~WE KNOW~ that thou hast a devil. Abraham IS DEAD, and the prophets; and ~thou sayest~, If a man keep my saying, he shall never taste of death.

It was on that point he stood judged (by them) because they could not discern the difference between the two trees (two Adams) and spiritual truths verses carnal truths.

So they heard.... Gen 3:4 And the serpent said unto the woman, Ye shall not surely die


The question in the psalms (meant for the Lord to answer) was...

Psalm 89:48 What man is he that liveth, and shall not see death? shall he deliver his soul from the hand of the grave? Selah.

Our Lord answering

John 8:51 Verily, verily, I say unto you, If a man keep my saying, he shall never see death.


What deaths are these after what truths. Theres physical death after a carnal truth and spiritual death after a spiritual truth. Theres being dead (ie the BODY) without the Spirit is dead (after a carnal truth) and being dead (while physically living) after a spiritual truth. Which truths are we speaking of, is sorta the question.

Dying in what way if all WERE DEAD? If from death itself we PASS unto LIFE while we PHYSICALLY LIVE (but were SPIRITUAL DEAD. Why is "love" (in us, or not in us) an evidence to our PRESENT ABODE? We know we have PASSED from DEATH unto LIFE because WE LOVE one another. He that loveth NOT his brother ABIDETH IN DEATH (even darkness, as these are used interchangeable). Hate (death, darkness) verses Love (life, and light). The gates of death (where one abides) spiritually speaking.

Psalm 9:13 Have mercy upon me, O LORD; consider my trouble which I suffer of them that hate me, thou that liftest me up from the gates of death:

Theres tons in this but what did Paul say? Did he say contrary to God after a spiritual truth? Not at all.

Romans 8:14 For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: ~but~ if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live.

Christ is "THE WAY" (the PATH OF Life)

Prov 12:28 In ~the way of~ righteousness is life; and in the pathway thereof there is no death.

These are "spiritual truths, not "carnal truths".

Prov 15:24 The way of life is ABOVE to the wise, that he may depart from hell BENEATH.


John 8:23 he said unto them, YE are from BENEATH; I AM from ABOVE: ye are of this world; I am not of this world.


Isaiah 14:9 HELL """"from BENEATH"""" is moved FOR THEE to MEET THEE at THY COMING: IT stirreth up THE DEAD FOR THEE, ((((( EVEN )))))) ALL the CHIEF ONES of THE EARTH; it hath raised up from their thrones all the kings of the nations.

Notice WHAT (in the above) is EQUATED HELL and THE EARTH, its HIM who is from above, it is THEY (the chief ones) OF THE EARTH are as HELL BENEATH, its THEY who stir up THE DEAD (unless ye eat my flesh and drink my blood) YE HAVE NO LIFE IN YOU (spiritual truth).

Ofcourse they had "life" (some would say) because the breath of life (in us) gives our (physical bodys life) after a "carnal truth" BUT Hes not speaking of carnal truths because he spake to living breathing people in whom had NO LIFE IN THEM, the flesh profitteth NOTHING, its not whats born of flesh (which is flesh) is that which is born of Spirit (is Spirit). His words are SPIRIT and LIFE. So I guess when others speak of physically dying (or any such thing) after a carnal truth another point can be missed after a spiritual truth. In examining myself I found awhile back I was still comparing "natural things" and I really looked at that verse which gave no physical leg to stand on when it says the HHoly Spirit teaches us in comparing SPIRITUAL WITH SPIRITUAL (theres no natural in it at all). When I saw that I was completely delighted, and I began to slow down and listen a bit harder to what I was hearing. I always loved the fact that by the measure we mete (in heeding what we hear) its meted to us (in the same way) in this regard.

That is why we are of diverse understanding depending on our ability (God given) to weigh things out (along one of those three lines) either (by our natural man) who cannot (by its nature receive the things of the Spirit). Comparing only natural with natural, or when our confusion begins when that begins to change (but is not yet perfected) in comparing "natural with spiritual" (but run into these paradoxes). The last (and how the Spirit teaches renders it to "Spiritual with spiritual" (think about that) wheres any natural in it? That blessed my socks off, it made me stop and consider and things began to become new to me.

I could go on but I cant "teach" thats not my thing, I'm just dropping off some considerations (which even I appreciate) in stirring me up (to consider) what I have not (and have perhaps overlooked). The seeking these things out and proving them is our own, the understanding (ofcourse) is His to give us.

I'm always learning, I see in part like everyone else but I do understand this "doctrine" is something you are very warry of (and I can understand that) as even they were and saw the same Serpent in words our Lord spake. It might be worth a further look into these things, thats all. What are the differences between the Serpent's and Jesus words in accordance with the trees (and both their words as it pertains to) "ye shall not die".

Just food for thought, nothing further

Peace

Fireinfolding

 

[Apollo Celestio]

Well, dosen't gnosticism say we're "trapped" in these bodies? (Not making a point, just a question..)

 

[Stinker]

and what do those verses have to do with your claim?

Acts 2:27 (King James Version)


27Because thou wilt not leave my soul in hell, neither wilt thou suffer thine Holy One to see corruption.
------------------------------------------------------

What does this verse have to do with her claim?

This verse is telling us that the 'soul' of Jesus was in hades (the ancient Hebrews called it the grave, and the Greeks called it the dark world of the departed) and He (the Holy One) is refered to as........Jesus! A dead body! A body that was not going to be dead long enough to decompose. This dead body is being called Thy Holy One. So the 'soul' is the body who is Thy Holy One.

 

[SpiritDriven]

Well we know for the time being at least...that Jesus Alone has immortality and that nobody else does yet....

16 Who alone has immortality, making His home in light inaccessible, Whom not one of mankind perceived nor can be perceiving, to Whom be honor and might eonian! Amen!

and that not even David has ascended....

34 "For David did not ascend into the heavens, yet he is saying, 'Said the Lord to my Lord, "Sit at My right
35 Till I should be placing Thine enemies for a footstool for Thy feet....

I was say probably because Christ at this present time is the only one ever born of Flesh....that currently has a Glorified Immortal body....

If its any consolation....the Dead in Christ do rise first...you know, to be ressurected then you have to be resseructed from somthing....as in from Death...as in dead as a door nail...no conciouse thought....no wisdom...nothing.

Although it would seem like... in the twinkling of an eye...to a person who was dead, seeing as they where not aware of their death....as in the dead know nothing.

Peace

 

[ToxicReboMan]

I was thinking that if Jesus is God then Jesus is everywhere (in Spirit). That is how Jesus could be with the thief in paradise on the same day and go down to sheol as well. After all, Jesus is in us and we in him. What do you guys think about that?

 

[Gary51]

The word hell, simply means the grave.

 

[OrthodoxyUSA]

Time and place have no meaning from the eternal side.

Heaven and Hell are both eternal. Time is irrelevant.

Forgive me...

 

[OrthodoxyUSA]

Well we know for the time being at least...that Jesus Alone has immortality and that nobody else does yet....

16 Who alone has immortality, making His home in light inaccessible, Whom not one of mankind perceived nor can be perceiving, to Whom be honor and might eonian! Amen!

and that not even David has ascended....

34 "For David did not ascend into the heavens, yet he is saying, 'Said the Lord to my Lord, "Sit at My right
35 Till I should be placing Thine enemies for a footstool for Thy feet....

I was say probably because Christ at this present time is the only one ever born of Flesh....that currently has a Glorified Immortal body....

If its any consolation....the Dead in Christ do rise first...you know, to be ressurected then you have to be resseructed from somthing....as in from Death...as in dead as a door nail...no conciouse thought....no wisdom...nothing.

Although it would seem like... in the twinkling of an eye...to a person who was dead, seeing as they where not aware of their death....as in the dead know nothing.

Peace

Correction: We are all Immortal souls... we will never die, good or bad, Christian or not. Human being are born and have a beginning but have no end.

That is what The Church teaches.

Forgive me...

 

[OrthodoxyUSA]

Well, dosen't gnosticism say we're "trapped" in these bodies? (Not making a point, just a question..)

Yes... and is untrue.

This body is yours... we are human soul and body. We will need this body again after it has been raised.

We are not trapped by our flesh, but rather trapped by our sins.

The flesh, in and of itself, is not bad.

Forgive me...

 

[SpiritDriven]

Correction: We are all Immortal souls... we will never die, good or bad, Christian or not. Human being are born and have a beginning but have no end.

Forgive me...

Well, I really could not believe that seeing as scripture is stating the opposite....in regards to man having an immortal soul.....

From 1Timothy 6....

14 that you keep this precept unspotted, irreprehensible, unto the advent of our Lord, Christ Jesus,
15 which, to its own eras, the happy and only Potentate will be showing: He is King of kings and Lord of lords,
16 Who alone has immortality, making His home in light inaccessible, Whom not one of mankind perceived nor can be perceiving, to Whom be honor and might eonian! Amen!

I know many in the Church do not believe the word of God, but I am also aware that is Gods doing...as in it is God who shuts up all in disobedience that he may show mercy to all.

I guess there would be degrees of disobedience within the ...all...in that regard.

I would rather be guided by scripture than what men teach myself.....however having said that I do believe that God will have all men be saved and come to the relisation of the truth in the end however....as in by the consumation of Gods plan for man.

Peace

 

[OrthodoxyUSA]

Well, I really could not believe that seeing as scripture is stating the opposite....in regards to man having an immortal soul.....

From 1Timothy 6....

14 that you keep this precept unspotted, irreprehensible, unto the advent of our Lord, Christ Jesus,
15 which, to its own eras, the happy and only Potentate will be showing: He is King of kings and Lord of lords,
16 Who alone has immortality, making His home in light inaccessible, Whom not one of mankind perceived nor can be perceiving, to Whom be honor and might eonian! Amen!

I know many in the Church do not believe the word of God, but I am also aware that is Gods doing...as in it is God who shuts up all in disobedience that he may show mercy to all.

I guess there would be degrees of disobedience within the ...all...in that regard.

I would rather be guided by scripture than what men teach myself.....however having said that I do believe that God will have all men be saved and come to the relisation of the truth in the end however....as in by the consumation of Gods plan for man.

Peace

Do not confuse soul with body which are unnaturally separated because of death.

Christ is the first born of the dead.

He is "totally" immortal. We are only immortal souls, and will be totally immortal when all are raised on the last day.

This is the teaching of The Church.

What was Adam before the fall? There was no death. Immortal soul and body. He fell... the body becomes mortal as it seperates from the soul.

Forgive me...

 

[OrthodoxyUSA]

Fireinfolding,


You did buy a nice dress after all!

How pretty, I like green!

Forgive me...

 

[Gary51]

People there is somthing you should be aware of......

I know religion teaches that when you die.....you dont really die, you just go some where else....but it is a lie.

Jesus Christ really did die on the Cross at Calvary, be assured Crucifixtion on a Cross will do that to you, it is Fatal, and Roman Guards where set in place to ensure his death.
They even shoved a spear in his side to make sure he was finished off and completly dead, he was dead as a door nail with out any conciouse thought because he was in Sheol, the place of the unseen, the dead.
Where there is no conciouse thought action or wisdom.
You have to remember that the word that first proceeded out of the mouth of God, was that Jesus Christ showed..Obedience unto Death even unto Death on a Cross.

The Spirits in prison where the people alive at the time during the earthly ministry of Jesus.

There where no comma abreviations used in the original languages the NT was written in.

Jesus said to the theif I am telling you this today that you will be with me in Paradise.....

Jesus did not lie, when the theif is ressurected he will still think it is Crucifixtion day, because the Dead are not aware of the passage of time....they do not even relise they died until the first moments of their ressurection....

Because the living know they shal die but the dead know nothing....

The Good News of The gospel of course is that GOD raised Jesus from the dead on the third day, frustrating even the Guards placed on the tomb to prevent that from happening.

I know this goes against everything men teach you, but it is the truth.
Because of the Obedience unto death on a Cross of Jesus Christ...death will not last for any person who has ever or will ever live.

Hooray for Jesus!

This is indeed the truth.

 

[Gary51]

Well, I really could not believe that seeing as scripture is stating the opposite....in regards to man having an immortal soul.....

From 1Timothy 6....

14 that you keep this precept unspotted, irreprehensible, unto the advent of our Lord, Christ Jesus,
15 which, to its own eras, the happy and only Potentate will be showing: He is King of kings and Lord of lords,
16 Who alone has immortality, making His home in light inaccessible, Whom not one of mankind perceived nor can be perceiving, to Whom be honor and might eonian! Amen!

I know many in the Church do not believe the word of God, but I am also aware that is Gods doing...as in it is God who shuts up all in disobedience that he may show mercy to all.

I guess there would be degrees of disobedience within the ...all...in that regard.

I would rather be guided by scripture than what men teach myself.....however having said that I do believe that God will have all men be saved and come to the relisation of the truth in the end however....as in by the consumation of Gods plan for man.

Peace

Eternal life is a gift from God, not a birthright. Man is not born with an eternal soul.

 

[OrthodoxyUSA]

People there is somthing you should be aware of......

I know religion teaches that when you die.....you dont really die, you just go some where else....but it is a lie.

Jesus Christ really did die on the Cross at Calvary, be assured Crucifixtion on a Cross will do that to you, it is Fatal, and Roman Guards where set in place to ensure his death.
They even shoved a spear in his side to make sure he was finished off and completly dead, he was dead as a door nail with out any conciouse thought because he was in Sheol, the place of the unseen, the dead.
Where there is no conciouse thought action or wisdom.
You have to remember that the word that first proceeded out of the mouth of God, was that Jesus Christ showed..Obedience unto Death even unto Death on a Cross.

The Spirits in prison where the people alive at the time during the earthly ministry of Jesus.

There where no comma abreviations used in the original languages the NT was written in.

Jesus said to the theif I am telling you this today that you will be with me in Paradise.....

Jesus did not lie, when the theif is ressurected he will still think it is Crucifixtion day, because the Dead are not aware of the passage of time....they do not even relise they died until the first moments of their ressurection....

Because the living know they shal die but the dead know nothing....

The Good News of The gospel of course is that GOD raised Jesus from the dead on the third day, frustrating even the Guards placed on the tomb to prevent that from happening.

I know this goes against everything men teach you, but it is the truth.
Because of the Obedience unto death on a Cross of Jesus Christ...death will not last for any person who has ever or will ever live.

Hooray for Jesus!

Only the body dies... not the soul.

Who is this great cloud of witnesses spoken of in scripture if not the saints who have gone before you?

Who are the beheaded martyred saints under the alter in Revelation asking how long O Lord?

After the Lord's ressurection... there is no more death for the soul.... and we will be raised in body on the last day.

Forgive me...

 

[Gary51]

Fireinfolding,


You did buy a nice dress after all!

How pretty, I like green!

Forgive me...

Man has no immortal soul. Tell me where is says so in the Bible?

 

[OrthodoxyUSA]

Eternal life is a gift from God, not a birthright. Man is not born with an eternal soul.

Incorrect: Man's soul is eternal... Heaven or Hell, you will live in eternity.

Forgive me...

 

[OrthodoxyUSA]

Man has no immortal soul. Tell me where is says so in the Bible?

Many times...

Mat 25:46 And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.

Mar 9:43 And if thy hand offend thee, cut it off: it is better for thee to enter into life maimed, than having two hands to go into hell, into the fire that never shall be quenched:

Ther are no gaps in eternity... one way or the other, we will all be there beginning with our death here.

Forgive me...

 

[OrthodoxyUSA]

Luk 16:22-31
And it came to pass, that the beggar died, and was carried by the angels into Abraham's bosom: the rich man also died, and was buried; And in hell he lift up his eyes, being in torments, and seeth Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom. And he cried and said, Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus, that he may dip the tip of his finger in water, and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame. But Abraham said, Son, remember that thou in thy lifetime receivedst thy good things, and likewise Lazarus evil things: but now he is comforted, and thou art tormented. And beside all this, between us and you there is a great gulf fixed: so that they which would pass from hence to you cannot; neither can they pass to us, that [would come] from thence. Then he said, I pray thee therefore, father, that thou wouldest send him to my father's house: For I have five brethren; that he may testify unto them, lest they also come into this place of torment. Abraham saith unto him, They have Moses and the prophets; let them hear them. And he said, Nay, father Abraham: but if one went unto them from the dead, they will repent. And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead.

The soul is immortal and eternal.

Forgive me...