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Grip Docility

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Spot on!

Forgive us our trespasses as we forgive those who trespass against us... indeed.

Fulfillment... indeed.

Pharisees left without a single lie to hind behind, indeed.

Amen.
 
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Steve Petersen

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You would have to examine the context of the passages where these are used.
 
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betterorworse

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I think Matthew 4:17 is a good example of the words intent.

I mean basically, it just mean's that good is good.

It is good for me to confess so that other's may have mercy and vice versa.

Good intent's are good for a good core. Not meaning to harm any other. Like when the cup is clean on the inside.
 
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mdamon0501

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Is the law thing really that difficult to understand? Jesus told us all what was the one thing we had to do to fulfill the entirety of the Law. Paul and the Apostles ram this point home over, and over, and over again. If you love people as yourself do you steal? Murder? Covet their stuff? So on and so forth.

I don't know why there has to be such an emphasis on tediously fulfilling the law. It's easy, before you do something, ask yourself if you would want somebody to do the same to you. You love yourselves no? If you wouldn't do something to yourself, and you don't do it to others, then the love which you inherently show to yourself is extended to others. Law fulfilled.


Galatians 5:14-24 NASB
For the whole Law is fulfilled in one word, in the statement, "You SHALL LOVE YOUR NEIGHBOR AS YOURSELF." [15] But if you bite and devour one another, take care that you are not consumed by one another. [16] But I say, walk by the Spirit, and you will not carry out the desire of the flesh. [17] For the flesh sets its desire against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh; for these are in opposition to one another, so that you may not do the things that you please. [18] But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under the Law. [19] Now the deeds of the flesh are evident, which are: immorality, impurity, sensuality, [20] idolatry, sorcery, enmities, strife, jealousy, outbursts of anger, disputes, dissensions, factions, [21] envying, drunkenness, carousing, and things like these, of which I forewarn you, just as I have forewarned you, that those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God. [22] But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, [23] gentleness, self-control; against such things there is no law. [24] Now those who belong to Christ Jesus have crucified the flesh with its passions and desires.

Furthermore this emphasis on tediousness is not echoed by Christ, in the Gospel according to Matthew he lists a whole host of things that righteous people do, and then proceeds to tell them that if they do even the least of these things then they have done so to God himself.
 
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1 John 4:1

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@mdamon0501 It also says that is one of the most important commandments: Mark 12:28-31 It can't be the "most important" or "the first" and also be the ONLY one. The word used in Gal 5:14 is the same as in Matthew 5:17 pleroo Genesis 1:1 (KJV) it means to walk out correctly or properly interpret the law. I would take this verse in Galatians as meaning that the law is all about loving your neighbor (if you include God as a neighbor). So that principle would properly interpret the law.

The problem is, how does one do that? And you can easily see how some people in the US or similar culture could use the "it's just love" idea to justify anything sexual since not many things spoken against in the Bible are taboo anymore. For instance is it ok to sleep with your sister or brother if you make sure you don't have children? https://www.quora.com/In-which-societies-is-was-incest-acceptable There's some cultures where that's ok even with having children and there's no explicit rule against marrying your sister/brother in the new testament, we get that from the old testament. What's sin is not obvious to everyone yet, cultures differ. That's why we need to be told that sin is transgression of the law: 1 John 3:4 Sin will only be obvious when the new covenant is completely fulfilled:

Jer 31 NKJV
31 “Behold, the days are coming, says the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah— 32 not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day thatI took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt, My covenant which they broke, though I was a husband to them, says the Lord. 33 But this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, says the Lord: I will put My law in their minds, and write it on their hearts; and I will be their God, and they shall be My people. 34 No more shall every man teach his neighbor, and every man his brother, saying, ‘Know the Lord,’ for they all shall know Me, from the least of them to the greatest of them, says the Lord. For I will forgive their iniquity, and their sin I will remember no more.”
 
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mdamon0501

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Did you even take a moment and read what you just wrote?

You literally took what was being said in the passage, spun it's meaning, and then claimed that believing in loving others is synonymous with having sex all the time. What?!

My friend, I'm not the one making the Law Tedious, you are. You expound for ages on this thesis you have and you take no second thought about what it is your trying to say.
 
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1 John 4:1

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@mdamon0501 Apologies if I misunderstood, but you literally said "I don't know why there has to be such an emphasis on tediously fulfilling the law. It's easy, before you do something, ask yourself if you would want somebody to do the same to you. . . Law fulfilled" Some people will take that as that is all you need to think about.

I'm not saying you think that about sexual things I'm just saying there are people out there. And it's not their fault it's just that they don't understand. It may be obvious to us be we often forget that it isn't obvious to others.

I also didn't find writing my post tedious it's interesting how it all fits together. Are you taking tedious to mean complex?
 
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mdamon0501

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My friend, the passage says that God's law is fulfilled by one word in the following statement:

“ You shall love your neighbor as yourself .”

In both the Greek and the English there is only two verbs, one is an adverb, the other is ἀγαπάω

You cannot infer personal action from as.

ἀγαπάω - love, wish Well, take pleasure in, etc.

Which word in that sentence do we assume Paul is talking about? ὡς or ἀγαπάω?
 
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1 John 4:1

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Ken Rank

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My friend, the passage says that God's law is fulfilled by one word in the following statement:

“ You shall love your neighbor as yourself .”

When Yeshua was teaching he revealed the Spirit of the law, the INTENT behind the letter. He didn't say that laying with a woman that was married to another man was no longer sin... what he said was, "to even look upon her in lust is to have already committed adultery." That is harder... we don't lay with her OR have her in our minds and hearts... we walk away, pray, sing the Barney song... but we don't undress her with a lustful eye.

The law is summed up in loving God and loving neighbor but that doesn't abrogate the commandments... it reveals the intent behind them. We don't serve other gods because we love the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob. We don't steal because we love our neighbor. We don't take the name of God in vain (misrepresent Him) because we love Him... and we don't covet our neighbors wife... or his new John Deere Lawn Tractor because we love him.

John wrote that the love of God is seen in us obeying His commandments. The law hasn't been done away with... it is being MOVED from our stony hearts to our heart of flesh (Ezk. 11:19). Meaning, it is being taken from stone and place directly on the heart. But the text is the same... Deut. 4:13.
 
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mark kennedy

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In Revelations Jesus is called, the Lamb slain from the foundation of the earth', the Lamb featured prominant in the Levitical system. There was the Passover lamb, a lamb was sacrificed for the sin offering. Then there was the sacrifice of the peace offering which was volunteery and was the only offering that was eaten in the Temple sacrifices. It was eaten before the Lord so it would have been eaten facing the front of the Temple with the altar blazing away and the incence from the peace offering filled the air. It would be a big meal for one guy so they probably invited family and friends to share in the meal.
 
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Steve Petersen

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Read Psalm 119 and tell me how tedious the Law was to David!

What does the Law say about itself?

Deuteronomy 30:11 “For this commandment that I command you today is not too hard for you, neither is it far off. 12 It is not in heaven, that you should say, ‘Who will ascend to heaven for us and bring it to us, that we may hear it and do it?’ 13 Neither is it beyond the sea, that you should say, ‘Who will go over the sea for us and bring it to us, that we may hear it and do it?’ 14 But the word is very near you. It is in your mouth and in your heart, so that you can do it.
 
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Steve Petersen

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Yep. Ezekiel predicts a day when God will pour out his spirit on Israel to empower them to obey his commandments. Fits in pretty nicely with Act 2.

Ezekiel 36:24 I will take you from the nations and gather you from all the countries and bring you into your own land. 25 I will sprinkle clean water on you, and you shall be clean from fall your uncleannesses, and from all your idols I will cleanse you. 26 And I will give you a new heart, and a new spirit I will put within you. And I will remove the heart of stone from your flesh and give you a heart of flesh. 27 And I will put my Spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes and be careful to obey my rules.
 
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DamianWarS

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My argument is with how you misrepresent the other side and I'm not directly challenging your personal convictions.
 
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mdamon0501

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Because David shares my sympathy. He and others all say that the law is not a burden. So if we sit here and make it a burden upon people, then we are not reaching the point David and others are trying to make. If we create this complex system of rules, then we also threaten to fall under a warning from Christ himself:

Do not judge so that you will not be judged. For in the way you judge, you will be judged; and by your standard of measure, it will be measured to you.

Christ isn't merely summarizing what the totality of the Law indicates will be the nature of your Spirit. He is literally pointing out that a whole group of Commandments and all the Mosaic Law are founded upon the foundation of Loving your Neighbor As Yourself. That by doing so you are not under, but above the law, because nobody writes a law against people who love others. That is the point and meaning. It works in the opposite direction, IMHO to what you propose. We are not saying "Follow the Ten in order to obey the One" its "Follow the One in order to obey the Ten."
 
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Steve Petersen

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Even the Apostle John says the Law is not tedious:

1 John 5:1 Everyone who believes that Jesus is the Christ has been born of God, and everyone who loves the Father loves whoever has been born of him. 2 By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God and obey his commandments. 3 For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments. And his commandments are not burdensome.
 
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mdamon0501

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Right, in my view you are missing the point. The commandments are not burdensome because they all rely on a single principle idea which is its foundation. If you follow that single principle then the rest of the law is completed without burdening yourself.
 
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Ken Rank

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My argument is with how you misrepresent the other side and I'm not directly challenging your personal convictions.
I read through the forum rules for this board and I can probably get away with saying what I need to. But... while my point is valid, it won't be accepted right away because I didn't accept it right away. In fact, I was mad at the guy who shared it at first for even saying it. But, he had earned enough respect that I filed it away until God finally connected some dots for me and I got it. The problem is... I would really need to write a couple of pages of background to lay the groundwork so that my statement will even make sense. I did just that 2 hours ago... and when it came time to post I reread it, realized that it will just cause upheaval on this board, so I deleted it. If you want to hear the point privately, shoot me a message. But I won't share this openly... not now anyway.

Blessings.
 
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Steve Petersen

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This is a good guideline. Do the right thing. Remember that Gentiles are not obliged to the commandments God gave Israel, though with a few exceptions, there is no prohibition from adopting those you are able to do.

Chapter 6. See that no one causes you to err from this way of the Teaching, since apart from God it teaches you. For if you are able to bear the entire yoke of the Lord, you will be perfect; but if you are not able to do this, do what you are able. And concerning food, bear what you are able; but against that which is sacrificed to idols be exceedingly careful; for it is the service of dead gods. - Didache
 
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