Jesus, Don Quixote, and The Christian Culture War That Isn’t

[tulc]

I thought this article was pretty interesting:
http://johnpavlovitz.com/2015/10/10/jesus-don-quixote-and-the-christian-culture-war-that-isnt/

Poor Don Quixote.

He wasted his life turning windmills into giants.

His wounded mind so desperately wanted a war, that it twisted reality to manufacture one; giving him a much-needed enemy to prove himself heroic.

Quixote measured his worth purely by the battle and the entire time he was really only fighting himself. His identity as courageous warrior was merely a mirage he dreamt up to justify the fight.

This is the story that so much of Christianity finds itself in today; people hopelessly trapped in the perpetual need for a holy war, desperate for conflict, addicted to a perceived danger that merits vigorous defense.

Every day followers of Jesus leverage fear to rally the faithful, imploring believers to “take back America”, to “turn this nation around”, to “win the country back for Jesus”. Entire ministries are built on the image of the bloody battlefield and the approaching godless horde across the expanse.

And whether the bad guys de jour are Muslims or Gays or Feminists or Atheists or Democrats or The Media, the raw-throated cries of the alarmists are quite similar: “These people are the enemy of God and of our righteous cause. They are presently conspiring to engineer our certain demise and without a war our end is imminent.”

Windmill giants.

It says something I've been thinking for a while.
tulc(thoughts?)

 

[brewmama]

Well first of all he starts off with a total straw man, claiming that pastors are all exhorting "“These people are the enemy of God and of our righteous cause. They are presently conspiring to engineer our certain demise and without a war our end is imminent.”

Something I've never heard in any church.

Then he ignores all the actual cultural attacks on Christianity and loss of religious freedoms to say "There simply isn’t an organized conspiracy against Christians out there; no clandestine meetings in smoke-filled rooms by well-organized, like-minded masses trying to figure out how to pollute the culture and pry the American people from God’s hand."

Nobody said there was, and ignoring the losses that are happening seems pretty stupid to me. Remember the quote "The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing." That means us, and there certainly is evil out there. To say that we are tilting at windmills and making it up is absurd.

Then he does go on to give some helpful advice about living as a Christian and follow Christ's commands, (as if fighting in the culture war means we're not), and using that to distance the "real" Christians from ones who engage in culture wars.

That's my take.

 

[Ada Lovelace]

I think that article is likely to be one I'll relish when I can read it in full. I'm in the backseat of the car right now, and reading a lengthier article from my phone will rapidly induce queasiness. I'm saving the link! I definitely like the excerpt that was shared. Thanks, Tulc.

And on a side note I wish more people had read Don Quixote, for many reasons. I have made comments about Creationists "tilting at windmills" about evolution only to get the online version of a blank stare.

 

[Oafman]

Persecution has always been a cornerstone of Christianity. To be Christian is to be persecuted. I'm not well qualified to say why this is the case, but I suspect it is related to the unjustified guilt and self-loathing that Christianity encourages.

But Christians in America have a problem. They find themselves as the most powerful majority in the world's most powerful country. Who will persecute them? What lions can they be thrown to? So they demand rights which other religions don't get. Which are of course unconstitutional. And when someone pushes back, they have their perceived persecution, and they can feel like good Christians.

I wish US Christians would spend less time inventing a false persecution narrative at home, and more time concerned for those Christians around the world who are suffering genuine persecution.

 

[brewmama]

Persecution has always been a cornerstone of Christianity. To be Christian is to be persecuted. I'm not well qualified to say why this is the case, but I suspect it is related to the unjustified guilt and self-loathing that Christianity encourages.

Would you kindly explain that remark? I just don't recall persecution being a cornerstone of Christianity, although of course Christians HAVE endured a lot of persecution, as you seem to agree with your following statement, which seems to belie your snarky self-loathing comment.

I wish US Christians would spend less time inventing a false persecution narrative at home, and more time concerned for those Christians around the world who are suffering genuine persecution.

 

[TLK Valentine]

Would you kindly explain that remark? I just don't recall persecution being a cornerstone of Christianity, although of course Christians HAVE endured a lot of persecution, as you seem to agree with your following statement, which seems to belie your snarky self-loathing comment.

Look at the early history of Christianity -- starting with its founders.

Do you think for a moment Christianity would exist as it did today if it hadn't gestated under the threat of imprisonment/execution?

 

[brewmama]

Look at the early history of Christianity -- starting with its founders.

Do you think for a moment Christianity would exist as it did today if it hadn't gestated under the threat of imprisonment/execution?

It does on occasion grow under persecution, but it also grows when not under persecution, and there have been plenty of times in the past 2000 years when it wasn't. So I think the point that is being attempted is lame and inaccurate.

 

[dgiharris]

There is a lot of truth in that article . Heck, just look at all the forum titles that are misleading that paint Christianity or Christians as a people under attack. If I had a nickel for every time some faux news story about persecuted Christians ran , I'd have a boat load of nickels.

I hate to say it, but that article is right, or rather, is more right than wrong. I was going to link to the false misleading title of the Satanic monument that was posted the other day but I see the mods changed the title to better reflect reality. That misleading title is not uncommon here, misleading titles to better portray Christians or Christianity as unfairly persecuted happen alot.

 

[Armoured]

Persecution has always been a cornerstone of Christianity. To be Christian is to be persecuted. I'm not well qualified to say why this is the case, but I suspect it is related to the unjustified guilt and self-loathing that Christianity encourages.

But Christians in America have a problem. They find themselves as the most powerful majority in the world's most powerful country. Who will persecute them? What lions can they be thrown to? So they demand rights which other religions don't get. Which are of course unconstitutional. And when someone pushes back, they have their perceived persecution, and they can feel like good Christians.

I wish US Christians would spend less time inventing a false persecution narrative at home, and more time concerned for those Christians around the world who are suffering genuine persecution.

Reposted from elsewhere;

"What I like to call "armchair" persecution.

I theorise that since the Bible speaks about how the true believers will find themselves being persecuted, and that such persecution is a sign you're on the right path, it pulls at the conscience of many overweight, under exercised middle class westerners that their lives are somewhat lacking in persecution, and so to cover this seeming gap in their spiritual lives, they'll desperately take anything remotely misconstruable as persecution and wrap it around themselves like a big reassuring blanket.

..."unfounded internet rumour that one of the Columbine murderers asked someone if they were a Christian before he killed her? HE WAS PERSECUTING CHRISTIANS! Thank goodness, Christians are being persecuted, I am a Christian, therefore I am being persecuted, QED. I'm so glad I can sleep soundly in my warm queen size bed after eating twice my daily recommended caloric requirement and not feel guilty about the world's poor or starving. What with me being PERSECUTED and all, I must be on the right track. I can't wait for the "war on Christmas" to start up to make me feel even more persecuted and thereby justify my blatant crass consumerism!""

 

[Armoured]

There is a lot of truth in that article . Heck, just look at all the forum titles that are misleading that paint Christianity or Christians as a people under attack. If I had a nickel for every time some faux news story about persecuted Christians ran , I'd have a boat load of nickels.

I hate to say it, but that article is right, or rather, is more right than wrong. I was going to link to the false misleading title of the Satanic monument that was posted the other day but I see the mods changed the title to better reflect reality. That misleading title is not uncommon here, misleading titles to better portray Christians or Christianity as unfairly persecuted happen alot.

Check some of the fact massaging going on here; http://www.christianforums.com/thre...-witch-bringing-‘demons’-into-office.7911656/ where "not following a direct order" becomes "courtmartialled for having a Bible verse". See also any of the innumerable and interminable posts claiming that various public businesses being found in breach of anti-discrimination laws were examples of "Christian persecution".

 

[mindlight]

I thought this article was pretty interesting:
http://johnpavlovitz.com/2015/10/10/jesus-don-quixote-and-the-christian-culture-war-that-isnt/

It says something I've been thinking for a while.
tulc(thoughts?)

There is good and there is evil. Since the fall and until the end there is a war going on. We do not have to invent stuff to describe these evils. Abortion, godlessness, gay marriage, false religion, greed, envy, gluttony, lust etc are all quite obvious. This war is not merely American. But Christians have an assurance of ultimate victory in the cross.

 

[Nithavela]

How is (let's just take a random example that is not against the forum rules) gluttony of other people a war against your religion?

 

[mindlight]

How is (let's just take a random example that is not against the forum rules) gluttony of other people a war against your religion?

You missed the point. The war is deeper and broader than mere legal proclamations by the courts and governments.

Gluttony on a personal level undermines the witness of a Christian and holds captive those who are not to a sin. Publically it might be expressed in obesity, in a lack of table manners or in the extreme waste of Western food culture in a world where many people starve. However there are no laws affirming gluttony (as with gay marriage) only laws that say you are free to eat what you choose and laws that demand certain standards from suppliers. Gluttony is quite hard to define also.An athlete may eat 7000 calories a day without being gluttinous per see. While another man eats only 3000 calories and is gluttinous. It becomes a freedom of expression and choice issue when for example insurance companies can use a persons fatness to raise health care insurance costs - although this in itself would not be unfair. However it becomes problematic when pension companies can estimate a lower life expectancy based on your fatness and predicted lower longevity and thereby give you a policy which they would deny to someone who was not gluttinous because they expect the slimmer person to live too long and cost too much - thereby rewarding bad behaviour with generous pension schemes. But Gluttony is not really a religion specific issue unlike gay marriage, abortion, false religion etc. The fight against gluttony is however a part of the war.

 

[Nithavela]

And what is the end goal of the war that the fight against gluttony is a part in?

 

[mindlight]

And what is the end goal of the war that the fight against gluttony is a part in?

The end goal and the grace that grants us the ability to overcome is a gift from God. The aim is to move from a state of shadow, darkness and death and to Eternal life. The war has been won by Christ on the cross, the war is being won as each believer seeks grace to make the right choices in each circumstance, the war has yet to be won and awaits the Messiahs return.

Romans 6 v 14, 21-23
For sin shall no longer be your master, because you are not under the law, but under grace....What benefit did you reap at that time from the things you are now ashamed of? Those things result in death!But now that you have been set free from sin and have become slaves of God, the benefit you reap leads to holiness, and the result is eternal life. For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.

 

[Nithavela]

So basically, this was has nothing to do with imposing on other people, yes?

 

[mindlight]

So basically, this was has nothing to do with imposing on other people, yes?

That is right though maybe not for the reasons you understand.

Opposition to abortion is about saving a childs life rather than oppressing women.

Opposition to gay marriage law is about protecting the definition of marriage as heterosexual, standing against the affirmation of oppressive sins and about protecting the rule of law which is undermined by the enshrining of deceits into the legal code.

A desire to protect an essentially Christian content to law is a desire to be free of the oppressive influences of secularised political correctness and false religion and to see the Only true Gods mercy and grace enshrined in the institutions of civil authority and power.

 

[Nithavela]

So you wish to be free from the opression of other people doing what they want to?

 

[GoldenBoy89]

Opposition to gay marriage law is about protecting the definition of marriage as heterosexual.

Why do we have to use a Christian definition of marriage?

What if we don't care how Christians define marriage?

 

[mindlight]

So you wish to be free from the opression of other people doing what they want to?

People are not free if they sin, they are oppressed by sin. Is a heroin addict free cause we let him take his drugs or does he become capable of choice as a result of taking the drugs away from him.

Law can make sin easier by legitimating it and by removing the penalties for it.

No fault divorce law for example can empower the adulterous party to a relationship over the one that stayed true.