Jesus didn't perform miracles?

[Splayd]

Hey guys,

I better start by saying I'm not a Catholic... BUT I do love the Lord and am very actively involved with the Catholic community where I live. I love them all sincerely and as a teacher in a Catholic school, consider them my family too.

Anyway - coming from a Protestant background there are inevitable differences in our beliefs that we've learnt to deal BUT the biggest problems I've had lately don't seem to be traditional Catholic beliefs at all. I just wanted to check what you all think about what our Priest has been teching. He says that Jesus didn't actually perform miracles in a physical sense at all.

He went through the healing of the leper the and said the healing was purely emotional/social. The man was used to being an outcast and feeling unloved and when Jesus touched him, those fears and insecurities etc.. were healed. He felt loved. I didn't entirely disagree with the Priest, accepting that those things were true, but I asked him privately to clarify whether there was also a physical healing. The Priest assured me that none of Jesus' healings or miracles were literal. To believe so is to diminish the message behind the story. Rather they were illustrations about God's love etc... He said the writing style of the NT was often misunderstood and we attribute too much to Jesus, focussing on the supernatural instead of the "spiritual truth". I can see an inkling of sense to what he's saying, inasmuch as I agree there's often ALSO something else to learn from the miracles apart from the obvious, but surely his teaching isn't orthodox, is it?

It seems to be completely contradictory that he would teach that the Saints have performed REAL miracles, both while alive and since their death... but deny that Christ did any while on earth.

Anyway, I have no intention on trying to "teach" you guys anything or debate the issue with anyone. I just want to know what the appropriate Catholic take on this is. If he weren't Catholic I'd take him to task on it, but I wouldn't presume to challenge the local Priest while they have accepted me so readily. Am I wrong? Have I misunderstood? Should I just ignore it all? (ie: Is it even any of my business) Does it even matter anyway?

 

[Andy Broadley]

I'm not Catholic either so this is just my take on it.
Personally I believe that there was definately physical healing of the leper.

Had that been the only miracle Jesus performed I could possibly, but only just, accept what the Priest said. The leper could have simply felt loved and happy.

But there is no way you could apply that theory to returning sight to the blind, or life to the dead.

I'm sure you will get good answers to your question from our Catholic friends here, but that's my 2 cents worth

 

[Da_Funkey_Gibbon]

Nope, not orthodox at all.

 

[gitlance]

That is heretical.

 

[Metanoia02]

Let me guess, he's a Jesuit.

 

[Da_Funkey_Gibbon]

Let me guess, he's a Jesuit.

Can you feel the charity in this thread.

 

[kimber1]

why what do Jesuits believe?

 

[Metanoia02]

why what do Jesuits believe?

Whenever I hear something off the wall like this, it usually comes from a Jesuit. I am not indicting all Jesuits, they just seem to have a penchant for producing priests that make statements like this.

 

[Splayd]

I'm relieved to hear it's just him
I suspected as much, but wanted to make sure. It's worrying though because where I live not many Catholics really get their teeth into Scripture. If the priest said it - it must be true and we'll leave it at that. Beautiful community, but easily misled. It's sad really.

 

[AMDG]

I LOVE what Father Groeschel says to things like that: "You were THERE?"

 

[Gwendolyn]

What the priest told you is not indicative of how the Church actually reads the Scriptures. Certainly we believe that Jesus healed people on an emotional/spiritual level; after He heals the paralytic by the pool, He forgives his sins and tells him to go and show himself to the priests. But we also believe that Jesus' miracles were very tangible and physical.

Also, it might be interesting to note that many scholars who study the historical - not purely faith-motivated - evidence of Jesus agree that His reputation was as a miracle-worker and an exorcist! For that to happen, those miracles of His couldn't have been metaphorical.

 

[Epiphanygirl]

I'm relieved to hear it's just him
I suspected as much, but wanted to make sure. It's worrying though because where I live not many Catholics really get their teeth into Scripture. If the priest said it - it must be true and we'll leave it at that. Beautiful community, but easily misled. It's sad really.

My wish is that his Bishop would find out about this. Lord have mercy God forgive him and the nonsense he is spouting. Prayers that the faithful will interceed and stop him from doing any more damage with his heretical teachings.

 

[Splayd]

Thanks for clearing this up for me. Before I started working with the Catholic school I was one of those nasty critters with all those terribly inaccurate, preconceived ideas about Catholics. Over time I've learnt just how wrong I was and how many beautiful Christian people there are in the church. I've also learnt that so many of our differences stem from different understandings of what our respective jargon means and stuff like that. It's really been a wonderful blessing for me to be part of the Catholic community and I think my involvement has been a blessing for them too. Things like this could have disrupted that growth and realisation for me if I hadn't been able to reconcile between the priest and the church. Thanks for clarifying it for me.

God Bless.

 

[anawim]

I just wanted to check what you all think about what our Priest has been teching. He says that Jesus didn't actually perform miracles in a physical sense at all.

As me Irish grandmutter used ta say, "tis a bunch a malarchy, it tis".

If he weren't Catholic I'd take him to task on it, but I wouldn't presume to challenge the local Priest while they have accepted me so readily. Am I wrong? Have I misunderstood? Should I just ignore it all? (ie: Is it even any of my business) Does it even matter anyway?

I'd take him to task, but do it with charity. "...If he listens to you, you have gained your brother". You could check the catechism as support for your position. Start with paragraph 548 "The signs worked by Jesus attest that the Father has sent him. They invite belief in him. To those who turn to him in faith, he grants what they ask. So miracles strengthen faith in the One who does his Father's works; they bear witness that he is the Son of God. " There are many more.

 

[Deb7777]

If Jesus didn't perform any miracles at all for that group of people that would be the greatest miracle of all, belief that the Carpenter's Son was the Son of God. I don't think so, that group of people from the religious to the Apostles to the man on the streets would not have been able to make the crossing of the carpenter's Son to THEE CARPENTER'S Son without the works given him by his Father to show he is indeed his beloved Son who does the Works of his Father. For 30 years Jesus was the carpenter's son and perform the works of one then the last three years he let it be known he was THEE CARPENTER'S SON and performed the works of his calling to heal, restored, created anew his Father's creation and to restore the relationship between man and God. To say Jesus did not perform miracles is like saying Jesus never built chairs or tables. Jesus fulfilled his calling perfectly.

 

[WarriorAngel]

Hederodox indeed.

 

[WarriorAngel]

Christ performed miracles, and not only did this cause Him to have a following, but it also spread and this was the first steps to ppl's conversion after His death and Resurrection.

This was proof of Who He was.

Pray pray pray for the priest.... he needs your prayers so he can see things more clearly.

Pray also for the faithful that they can discern. And in turn also pray for the priest.

WE must always worry for the priests souls too.

 

[faerieevaH]

Let me guess, he's a Jesuit.

So strange... it often seems as if here in Belgium it's the opposite. I was planning on dropping one course here at the Theological center and was doubting which one... The decision came quite swiftly to drop a course from a Dominican priest who was giving quite strange ideas. When one of the students asked him "but is this what the Church teaches?" His reply was "The Church, the Church... what is the church?" And not in a 'let's try and define what the church is' way.
Later on, after I dropped the course, I found out I did a good thing. Aparently some people walked out on his lesson after he spoke about 'needing to strip the sacraments from the 'hocus pocus words'. Unfortunately, many of the less catechised people lapped it up.

 

[Metanoia02]

So strange... it often seems as if here in Belgium it's the opposite. I was planning on dropping one course here at the Theological center and was doubting which one... The decision came quite swiftly to drop a course from a Dominican priest who was giving quite strange ideas. When one of the students asked him "but is this what the Church teaches?" His reply was "The Church, the Church... what is the church?" And not in a 'let's try and define what the church is' way.
Later on, after I dropped the course, I found out I did a good thing. Aparently some people walked out on his lesson after he spoke about 'needing to strip the sacraments from the 'hocus pocus words'. Unfortunately, many of the less catechised people lapped it up.

Well that is a big difference for where I live. The Dominicans are very strong and the local convent full and are turning women away. They are preparing them to be teachers in Catholic schools they are quite orthodox.

On the other hand the two previous Jesuit chaplains at the local University have been removed and returned to thier superiors for various problems.