First and foremost, the pre-existence of Jesus in the beginning does not imply that he has always existed, although it is true that he did pre-exist. The scriptures are very clear in this. How this is possible is miraculous. But just as God is able to resurrect a body and place the mind of someone that has been deceased in it, so is he able to place the the same mind that spoke the world into existence into a new earthly body. Before the Word began speaking things into existence, the earth and the water already existed, as it is said,
[1] In the beginning God made the heaven and the earth. [2] But the earth was unseen and unready, and darkness was upon the abyss, and spirit of God bore upon the water. [3] And God said, Let there be light! And there was light.
(Genesis 1:1-3 [ABP])
Notice how "the earth was unseen and unready". The earth was ALREADY THERE BEFORE the Word began speaking things into existence! And not just the earth, but the water as well. How is this possible if the Word hasn't started speaking yet? Its because it was THE FATHER that established the foundation FIRST, and THEN the Word began speaking other things into existence. What did the Word do exactly? It brought into existence things that FILLED the earth and the heaven. The Father ESTABLISHED THE EARTH, the Word FILLED IT. So where was Jesus actually present in the Genesis account? Its in THE SPEECH, such as "let there be light", that is why he is CALLED THE WORD, BECAUSE HE IS THE SPEECH OF GOD. "WORD" in the Greek means speech, talking. And as a CONSEQUENCE OF THE SPEECH UTTERED BY JESUS CHRIST, DID THINGS COME INTO EXISTENCE. So the Father first brought forth the heaven and the earth into existence, and then Jesus began speaking to bring things IN IT into existence. Going further Colossians we even read,
[15] who is the image of the unseen God, first-born of all creation; [16] for in him were created the whole, the things in the heavens, and the things upon the earth -- the visible and the unseen; whether thrones, whether lordships, whether sovereignties, whether authorities; the whole through him and in him have been created.
(Colossians 1:15-16 [ABP])
Here we read that in the Word was created "the whole" (Greek word "pas"), which means "all", all what? The THINGS in the heavens, and the THINGS upon the earth. Colossians even goes further and says, "the visible and the unseen; whether thrones, whether lordships, whether sovereignties, whether authorities". The Word created all these THINGS that FILLED the heaven and the earth. And its because of this, that the Word is also mentioned in this scripture as the "first-born of all creation", because Jesus, the Word, was created FIRST, THEN AFTERWARDS HE SPOKE ALL OTHER LIVING BEING INTO EXISTENCE, ANGELS, MAN, ANIMALS.... ALL LIVING THINGS. Why is this of great significance? Because it demonstrates two actions, the Father creating a foundation, and then the Word creating THINGS upon that foundation. As it is even written,
God in wisdom founded the earth; and he prepared the heavens in intelligence. (Proverbs 3:19 [ABP])
It was the Father who FOUNDED the earth, and PREPARED the heaven. Also we read,
the one laying the foundation for the earth in its stability (it shall not lean into the eon of the eon); (Psalms 104:5 [ABP])
The Father laid the foundation of the earth. Also we read,
Where were you in my laying the foundation for the earth? And report to me! if you should have knowledge of understanding. (Job 38:4 [ABP])
Again, the Father laid the foundation of the earth. Taking this further, we have just established that the heaven and earth were not created by the speech (Word) of God, but rather, it was the Father that created it himself. Everything that was ON THE EARTH was created by the speech. So now what we have here is a conclusion that the Father did create certain things first, BEFORE the speech began uttering things to FILL IT and bring ORDER to it. What did the Father first create to lay his foundation? He created and prepared the heaven. He laid the foundation of the earth. He created water that existed as a part of the earth. He created his spirit, or rather air (Air and spirit are synonymous throughout scripture) that bore upon the water, and he created words (or rather, he created the Word, to speak THINGS into existence that FILL the heaven and earth). Now, these things existed in the very beginning before the speech began uttering, therefore it is not indicative that they have always existed, but rather, that they were created by the Father when he laid the foundation of the earth and prepared the heaven.
And aside from what the Father created himself, we also have affirmation that the Word created too,
[1] In the beginning was the word, and the word was with God, and [*4*God *3*was *1*the *2*word]. [2] This one was in the beginning with God. [3] All through him existed, and apart from him existed not even one thing which exists.
(John 1:1-3 [ABP])
Notice how it says, "All through him existed". This isn't talking about the heaven and earth as you might think, otherwise it would contradict other scripture, it is talking about everything ON the earth. As you even read further,
[*2*in *3*the *4*world *1*He was], and the world by him existed, and the world [*2*him *3*not *1*knew]. (John 1:10 [ABP])
The "world" is everything that is created ON the earth, living things, kingdoms, animals, etc.The world is not the earth, but rather the world is ON the earth. Notice how it even says that the world knew him not. Its not saying, the earth didn't know him, its saying the people of the world didn't know him. We see this clear usage of the word "world" in other instances,
[15] Do not love the world, nor the things in the world! If anyone should love the world, [*5*is not *1*the *2*love *3*of the *4*father] in him; [16] for every thing in the world– the desire of the flesh, and the desire of the eyes, and the ostentatiousness of existence, is not of the father, but [*2*of *3*the *4*world *1*is].
(I John 2:15-16 [ABP])
Jesus is not saying don't love the earth, he's saying don't love the "world", meaning the current world that exists on the earth. The Greek word for "world" is kosmos. It connotes the "world" upon the earth as it is clear in various other usages. Here is another instance,
If the world detests you, know that [*2*me *3*first *4*before you *1*it detested]! (John 15:18 [ABP])
Here also, its not talking about the earth. The earth doesn't detest Jesus Christ, but rather, it is the world, or rather, the PEOPLE of the world. So again, the word "world" conveys the things that are currently UPON the earth. It also conveys a way of life in the current world by the people of the current world. It is also evil.
Going further, Jesus also affirmed himself to be I AM. In saying this, he wasn't affirming that he has always existed as the Father does, but rather, that he is self sustaining, as the Father is,
For as the father has life in himself, so he gave also to the son [*2*life *1*to have] in himself; (John 5:26 [ABP])
Notice how it is the Father that GIVES the son to have life in himself. And also, Jesus also says that the Father is greater than he is,
You heard that I said to you, I go away, and I come to you. If you loved me, you would have rejoiced that I said, I go to the father, for my father [*2*greater than *3*me *1*is]. (John 14:28 [ABP])
Taking things further, this scripture is also of importance,
For thus God loved the world, so that [*4*son *2*his *3*only born *1*he gave], that every one trusting in him, should not perish, but should have [*2*life *1*eternal]. (John 3:16 [ABP])
Notice the use of only born son. Why is he the only born son? Because he is the ONLY being that has EVER been created DIRECTLY by the FATHER, and THEN, ALL OTHER LIFE CAME FORTH FROM THE SON. Does A SON EXIST BEFORE HIS FATHER? NO. THEREFORE, THE FATHER EXISTED FIRST, THEN EXISTED THE SON. And since we know the Father has no beginning, therefore the SON BEGAN.
Going further, some might say, well if Jesus Christ was created, then how can he be God? And also, how can a creature also be a creator? There is one thing that is apparent in the way God creates certain things, he creates things that image himself, in one example we have,
Then God said, "Let us make human beings in our image, to be like us. They will reign over the fish in the sea, the birds in the sky, the livestock, all the wild animals on the earth, and the small animals that scurry along the ground." (Genesis 1:26)
What is an image? It is something that reflects something else. It is something lesser that reflects something greater. In this case, man was made in the image of God. Man, being lesser, reflects God, who is greater. What else does God do? He gives dominion to what he creates,
And [*2*blessed *3*them *1*God], saying, Grow and multiply, and fill the earth, and dominate it! And control the fishes of the sea, and the winged creatures of the heaven, and all the cattle, and all of the earth, and all of the reptiles of the ones crawling upon the earth! (Genesis 1:28 [ABP])
So we see two things indicated here. GOD CREATES IMAGE OF HIMESELF. GOD GIVES IMAGE OF HIMSELF DOMINION. We see another example here of God giving dominion to AN IMAGE HE CREATED,
And having come forward, Jesus spoke to them, saying, [*3*was given *4*to me *1*All *2*authority] in heaven and upon earth. (Matthew 28:18 [ABP])
GOD GAVE JESUS CHRIST, HIS VERY OWN IMAGE, DOMINION AND AUTHORITY OVER ALL HEAVEN AND EARTH. Lets take it further,
Then the LORD said to Moses, "See, I have made you like God to Pharaoh, and your brother Aaron will be your prophet. (Exodus 7:1)
Notice how God said he made Moses as God to Pharaoh! Moses was acting AS AN IMAGE OF GOD TO PHAROAH. And in ACTING AS AN IMAGE OF GOD what did Moses do? He brought forth the plagues of Egypt showing the power of God. He was ACTING AS God to Pharoah because God made him so, and THROUGH MOSES God brought forth his power and wonders. The same with Jesus Christ in God creating a higher image of himself than Moses. He created for himself his VERY EXACT IMAGE AS AN IMAGE THAT CREATES, and THROUGH THIS IMAGE, WHICH IS JESUS CHRIST, HE CREATED THE "WORLD" INTO EXISTENCE. And because of this, is he God, BUT OF GREATER POWER THAN MOSES. We see the usage of Jesus Christ as an image here in this same passage I quoted before,
who is the image of the unseen God, first-born of all creation; (Colossians 1:15 [ABP])
He is EXACT IMAGE because just AS THE FATHER CREATED, SO DID THE SON CREATE AS WELL. Jesus Christ is a LESSER creator than the Father, but REFLECTS the very nature of the Father AS CREATOR.
So up to this point, we have concluded several things. That the Father brought forth the heaven and the earth into existence, which included the Son, and that the Son then spoke the THINGS THAT EXIST IN HEAVEN AND ON THE EARTH INTO EXISTENCE.
, how about consider this...
,for most though, yes, we get stuck there for some its Gods will for translations sake, others seek a preacher, church and ignore sequester and training in Gods wisdom where love is paramount to all and perception changes that enables us to look at anothers religion and not judge it but ask in all meekness how did we come to this understanding? For me, a lot of pain had to be endured as my mind was in judgment to the very id. It took a three year sequester to implement Romans 12:2 to my core thinking process to change it to a mind of forgiveness. When one is stuck in knowledge alone or church, religion , preacher where trust goes to these firstly (as I was) we are not vessels to Spirit. Not to the act of doing these things but putting trust to these things before God. Thus the doorway to God given knowledge has no way to open . That is not directed to anyone yet everyone , test the Spirit of those words. Gate of hell is even a preacher if we put trust in him/her before God (not advocating don't go to church just don't trust these firstly). Thus, I see your judgment on the trinity yet look at it through a different lens of judgment. Its not the trinity itself but the church, religion that survives on it and never tells a congregate it is a bridge to higher understanding. In learning what Spirit we are the trinity is for translation, on the way back to oneness (Spirit Realized, for God imparted it
to the individual in terms we can understand in a mind that can translate many values at once ) where self and light are the same. Hope something brings LIFE to the fellow reader out there
. John 5:39-40.
cgavira,
. For me, it was a stepping stone when I was in confusion of Spirit and I guess the only scripture I can quote for this time in my life is John 5:39. At this time, yes, I believed in the trinity as separate but as the verse quoted, I was by myself searching scripture . By myself is in relation to John 5:40. I had plenty of people and loud voices to tell me "religiously correct" translations to scripture but no John 5:40 . That is said so one thing can be understood, time is flowing and a person can change in that time. Today, in praying and sequester, as I read scripture with no loudness around so that meek whisper can be heard the trinity is one and so are we. Luke 9:54-56. concentration on 55. That talks of Spirit and our confusion , right? For me , as stated in my first post trinity is a stepping stone when one "Realizes Spirit". AKA the baptism. There is a trip back for those that hear. 
