"Jesus Camp"

Robbie_James_Francis said:

The most disturbing part I remember is the kid who said that at the age of 5 he decided life was empty and meaningless.

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That is very disturbing. It's also true that children that young and younger can be horribly depressed - I've seen it (long time child care worker), and it is heartbreaking and needs to be dealt with by professionals. So that child may just have been parroting what he'd been told, which is wrong by any measure, or worse, the child really has depression and needs treatment instead of Jesus Camp.

Oh, Just for those who don't know -

Youtube has it in nine parts. Search "Jesus Camp" - it's the third one down labeled "Jesus Camp 1 of 9." It's a sick, sick film...

The radio talk-show host gives me hope, though.

It's my favorite Horror Movie!

The really scary thing is that the filmmakers allowed the Camp director and the parents a high degree of content approval. They are proud of the things that the film depicts about them.

Teehee~ I downloaded it last year. Seeing as I've lived through similar episodes throughout my young life it held nothing new to me but they were quite a bit more fundamentalist than I'm used to.
Its a very good argument against homeschooling too, I was homeschooled too...and It is NOT a good thing.

Hey now...I was homeschooled as well (grades 1-6), and I'm doing quite smashingly.

I don't think this is a statement about Christianity, but rather, this brand of Christianity. I acted in Holy Ghosts, a play where a man comes to find his wife who has run away, only to find them in a Church of God Snakehandlers. To prep for the movie, the director had us watch Holy Ghost People, to give us an understanding about our characters in the play.
Another clip: [URL="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iUdc5h10zTo&feature=related"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?
v=iUdc5h10zTo&feature=related

It's based on Chapter 16 in the Book of Mark, when Christ returns and says that you will be able to pick up serpents and will not be harmed, and will drink poison and not be killed.

What you see in Holy Ghost People is a congregation handling rattlesnakes - some big ones. They allow the children to handle them as well. One boy who appears to be about 10-12, passes the snake to his friend by throwing it.

There is a weird part of the documentary - yes, more weird - where the pastor says that God controls the animals, and the snake can't bite him, because God wouldn't allow it. If God wanted it to bite me, it would (at which point, it bites him.) The pastor tells the camera crew, "no, don't help me know, when you wouldn't help me before." His arm swells up to the size of a neck pillow. He says that he has been bit about 10 times, and has always recovered.

This another instance where one has gone to the bible, read something, then unfortunately interpreted it in a way that is supposed to show their faith, but in reality, puts them at risk, and that is extremely irresponsible to encourage other people to test their faith, or better yet, fate. It's like playing Russian Roulette to prove your faith. And you see many children, even small children, in the congregation.

At the same time, most people with kids teach them what they believe. If they are Catholic, their child is taking communion at 7. There is often some peer pressure to accept Jesus and get baptized for anyone over 12 in a Baptist Church.

However, Jesus camp is extremely emotional, like a cult. What could an 8 year old have done that would make them weep that much? They all do! They lay hands on a cut out of George Bush, and while they are symbolically praying for the president (and he needs it), it looks like idol worship.

There is also an encouragement of the children to convert people to Christianity. In a bowling alley, a girl walks up to a woman bowling, and says, "Hi. Um, God told me that he wanted to talk to you about Jesus." She gives her a tract, the woman smiles courteously, and has that look like, "I'm not reading this." There is another DC evangelizing where she says to some old man, "Do you know where you would go if you died tonight?" This is a common, and badl, Christian evangelican technique, because it usually draws on fear, and urgency, like a Used Car Salesman.

What they don't show a lot of is the parents of the kids.

I was sent to summer Bible Camp. We learned about the bible, had chapel, sang Pass it On around the camp fire. About the closest thing they had to the craziness of Jesus Camp was a "game" or activity where the campers were told that Christianity is illegal. Anyone caught with a bible, or talking about God would be thrown in jail, or possibly killed. Our object was to find the secret meeting place. Some people were enemies, and some were helpers. It including someone chasing me through the woods with a bloody axe. The point was to show how it is for some people in other countries, and how we should appreciate what we have.

What it didn't have was a lot of time for long prayer, crying about our sins, etc. Yes, we had to write down a sin, ask for forgiveness and throw it into the fire, but we weren't crying. We weren't begging for forgiveness, because we knew that God was a forgiving God. We also weren't coerced into making this a political statement, when most of us didn't know what was going on in the world.

So, a lot of what I saw were simply industrial strength of what is taught in a lot of churches. When the kids get older, they will have a chance to disagree with their parents all they want.

You realize shows like Jesus Camp and other charasmatic churches have really nothing to do in common with orthodox christianity and it does not even resemble closely. Im kinda tired of people using the more extreme fanatic sects from white trash hick "bible belt" areas to try to paint a picture of what all of christianity is like.

PetersKeys said:

You realize shows like Jesus Camp and other charasmatic churches have really nothing to do in common with orthodox christianity and it does not even resemble closely. Im kinda tired of people using the more extreme fanatic sects from white trash hick "bible belt" areas to try to paint a picture of what all of christianity is like.

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The trouble is, it is the more moderate religious people who give the fanatics or these twisted parents as seen in Jesus camp an air of legitimacy. Not that I'd blame normal Christians in general, but I do sometimes wonder whether most of them have ever seriously questioned their faith.

Beanieboy said:

I watched the whole thing. There were a lot of strange elements to it:
* There is the leader who claims that global warming doesn't exist, and explains to her son how to answer to it.
* The leader says, "there are Muslim children who are taught to kill for their God. Are you willing to die for Jesus?" There is little talk of living for God, but a lot of dying for God. There is also a lot of images of war, a choreographed war like dance, and chants of "this means war." There are no mentions of love. There are no mentions of hope, or kindness, or pretty much anything that Christ taught.
* The 9 year old decides to give his life to Christ because he realized that there had to be more to life. At 6? Really? Or was he parroting what he was taught?

The best was the irony of Ted Haggart saying to the cameraman or the audience, "I know what you did last night..."

It's very melodramatic, with children crying over their sins, begging God for forgiveness, crying about abortion or whatever else was thrown at them. It was very manipulative.

It's also another one of those examples where a nonchristian says, "If people are only concerned about Christian prayer in public school, but not the public workplace, is that because religion is for kids?"

What I did like about the doc is that it put human faces to those kids. You felt sorry for them that they had such militant christian parents.

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It reminds me of the short story Salvation by Langston Hughes.

stan1980 said:

The trouble is, it is the more moderate religious people who give the fanatics or these twisted parents as seen in Jesus camp an air of legitimacy. Not that I'd blame normal Christians in general, but I do sometimes wonder whether most of them have ever seriously questioned their faith.

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No, not at all. The early christians did not resemble anything like these people. Charismatic communitys did not start till around the early 1900s. The modern Pentecostal movement traces its community's growth to a prayer meeting at Bethel Bible College in Topeka, Kansas on January 1, 1901. Even the new American Evangelicalism wasn't really booming until 1947. What we can conclude that is that this type of christianity is pretty much limited to the Americas, mostly in the southern regions and parts of midwest and some of the west. But it is not universal and thus is should not be concluded that these people represent the current state of christianity. These types are a very limited population that mostly exist in one part of the Americas. Also these children aren't living "awful lives" like people are claiming here. most seem very well taken care of and well fed and their lives would look like luxury compared to children suffering in Africa and Asia who are starving to death. If you consider these childrens lives awful then you really don't know the meaning of suffering yet.

The problem is people write off christianity too quick with these folks and thus miss a great deal. I think if people want to get to know the roots they should read the great writers like the Apostle Paul, St. Augustine, Aquinas, John of the Cross, Catherine Emmerich, C.S. Lewis, G.K. Chesterton, Thomas More, and St. Alphonsus Liguori. Some of their writings can touch even the most hardened atheists soul. The problem is they won't open their minds to some of these great thinkers and limit themselves to watching shows like Jesus Camp so they can justify their aversion to christianity even more. People need to stop using these videos to justify the "see, look how awful they are, I told you so", and actually search themselves and read for themselves.

My reasons for being troubled by Jesus Camp have nothing to do with some misguided notion that all Christians are like that. Nearly half of my degree is about Christian theology; I am not ignorant about other kinds of Christianity. I am simply horrified by the way in which the children in that documentary are treated. I don't think it's representative of the treatment of the majority of children of Christian parents, but I do think the fact that any children are treated that way is very worrying and upsetting.

I watched it. It is similar to how the people act in the private Christian school I went to.

I have never seen anything so vile.........those poor kids crying, and that crazy blonde haired witch. Yikes!

My issue with the movie is not about Christianity, but about Jesus camp. The ask children if they are ready to die for Jesus (yikes!), but they don't talk about how to live for Jesus, how to love your neighbor, how to act in love. There are taught that the world is a fearful place, that everyone that doesn't agree is the enemy, and to prepare for a holy war.

That's not what Christ taught. That's what bothers me, and I feel sorry for the kids, and all the pressure that is on them.

selfinflikted said:

Funny you mention the part about evilution. In one scene, a child and his mother are going over their studies for homeschooling. By the by, the film claims that 70-somthing% of homeschool kids are born again evangelicals! I was like, [wash my mouth][wash my mouth][wash my mouth]? Well, that exaplains it..

..anyways I digress. You hear the mother and child talking about how silly it is that science classrooms teach that people were the "end product of evolution from apes". I had to lol at their misinformation. This has got to be the one thing I hear creationists spouting off the most at, where evolution is concerned. Evolution does not in fact predict that we descended from apes - never has. It simply says that we have a common ancestor with modern-day apes. There is a WORLD of difference between the two.

Now, consider yourself corrected. Again.

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Evolution may say that, and that is where evolution is wrong. So, you may consider yourself corrected....

cantata said:

My reasons for being troubled by Jesus Camp have nothing to do with some misguided notion that all Christians are like that. Nearly half of my degree is about Christian theology; I am not ignorant about other kinds of Christianity. I am simply horrified by the way in which the children in that documentary are treated. I don't think it's representative of the treatment of the majority of children of Christian parents, but I do think the fact that any children are treated that way is very worrying and upsetting.

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Maybe I'm missing something here, but if one wants a child to learn how to drive a car correctly, one doesn't simply hand said child the car keys at 16/17 and say, "Have at it!" A child learns from imitation, example and lessons. Sorry, you don't agree with a churches doctrine; however, you will one day teach your child the things you feel are important in the manor in which you feel it's best presented. I may disagree with your values; however, that doesn't make you a terrible person or a mistreater of children. Remember, your secular motivation likely looks the very same to someone who disagrees, as their techniques do to you. Both are trying to accomplish the very same thing ---- to instill one's values and influence a child to do the "right" thing. Unless you want them to disagree with you, then you may just wish to send them to a "JESUS Camp."

The Bible says, "Train a child in the way he should go, and he will not depart from it." As a general statement, I feel that this is very very true.

LittleNipper said:

The Bible says, "Train a child in the way he should go, and he will not depart from it." As a general statement, I feel that this is very very true.

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Then you never tried to raise a teenager.