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LoveofTruth

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(1) Yes
(2) No
(3) No
(4) Yes
Ok so by your answers you deny the Son and have not the Father

this is a serous error

read Col 1 that shows the Son always existed and is before all things. Read Hebrews 1 where God calls the Son God. Read John 17:5 which shows the Son of God existed with (beside or near) the father before the world was. Read John where Jesus often speaks of coming down from above, sent from heaven by the father etc.
 
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LoveofTruth

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Jesus is in fact God's first Son of many sons.?

No, Jesus Christ is God the Son he is the only begotten of the Father in the Bosom of the Father, from eternity past without any beginning as we read,

"Without father, without mother, without descent, having neither beginning of days, nor end of life; but made like unto the Son of God; abideth a priest continually."(Hebrews 7:3 KJV)

are you following this so far?


"13 Who hath delivered us from the power of darkness, and hath translated us into the kingdom of his dear Son:...16 For by him [by the Son] were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him [by the Son], and for him: 17 And he [the Son] is before all things, and by him all things consist."(Colossians 1:13,16,17 KJV)

Your doctrine is not true and according to scripture as clear verses show.
 
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Buzz_B

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Thank God you are not my judge.

I do not deny the Son. I let the Son be a Son.

I say you negate the Son by calling him God Almighty in place of his Father.

But that is your business. I won't presume to judge you for it other than to say that the false doctrine of a Trinity has messed up many minds.
 
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Buzz_B

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number 5

5. Is Jesus Christ in you? Yes or no?
You know he is Christ to me. He is God's chosen one. Anointed of his Father to bring salvation to me and to all who would receive him.

Jesus is "the grace of God" to us. Titus 2:11
 
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LoveofTruth

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Thank God you are not my judge.

" But he that is spiritual judgeth all things, yet he himself is judged of no man."(1 Corinthians 2:15 KJV)

"18 Then shall ye return, and
discern between the righteous and the wicked, between him that serveth God and him that serveth him not"( Malachi 3:18 KJV)

" For
I verily, as absent in body, but present in spirit, have judged already, as though I were present, concerning him that hath so done this deed,...do not ye judge them that are within?"(1 Cor. 5:3,12 KJV)


I do not deny the Son. I let the Son be a Son.

You deny who the Son is. The Son of God who you say you believe in is not the same Son of God as scripture shows and as every believer knows by revelation of the father

" Whosoever denieth the Son, the same hath not the Father: he that acknowledgeth the Son hath the Father also."(1 John 2:23 KJV)

"For many deceivers are entered into the world, who confess not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh. This is a deceiver and an antichrist. 8 Look to yourselves, that we lose not those things which we have wrought, but that we receive a full reward. 9 Whosoever transgresseth, and abideth not in the doctrine of Christ, hath not God. He that abideth in the doctrine of Christ, he hath both the Father and the Son."(2 John 7-9 KJV)

all believers have both the Father and the Son in them

Jesus said

Luke 10:22
"All things are delivered to me of my Father: and no man knoweth who the Son is, but the Father; and who the Father is, but the Son, and he to whom the Son will reveal him."

John 14:23
Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him."


I say you negate the Son by calling him God Almighty in place of his Father

I showed you clearly that he is God Almighty and you tried to avoid the clear text .
 
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LoveofTruth

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You know he is Christ to me. He is God's chosen one. Anointed of his Father to bring salvation to me and to all who would receive him.

Jesus is "the grace of God" to us. Titus 2:11
Jesus Christ is the Son of God , God manifest in the flesh, the Word made flesh.

and

"And we know that the Son of God is come, and hath given us an understanding, that we may know him that is true, and we are in him that is true, even in his Son Jesus Christ. This is the true God, and eternal life."(1 John 5:20 KJV)
 
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LoveofTruth

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to all:

Just a few verses to clarify things

Jesus Christ is Almighty God as scripture shows. And your wrong the concept of the Tri Unity or Trinity come from scripture clearly as I will show

Revelation 1 - 8. I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, saith the Lord, which is, and which was, and which is to come, the Almighty. ..11. Saying, I am Alpha and Omega, the first and the last: and, What thou seest, write in a book, and send it unto the seven churches which are in Asia; unto Ephesus, and unto Smyrna, and unto Pergamos, and unto Thyatira, and unto Sardis, and unto Philadelphia, and unto Laodicea. ...17. And when I saw him, I fell at his feet as dead. And he laid his right hand upon me, saying unto me, Fear not; I am the first and the last: 18. I am he that liveth, and was dead; and, behold, I am alive for evermore, Amen; and have the keys of hell and of death.”(Revelation 1:8,11,17,18 KJV) (Jesus Christ died and rose again and is alive forever more.

" And I will pour upon the house of David, and upon the inhabitants of Jerusalem, the spirit of grace and of supplications: and they shall look upon me whom they have pierced, and they shall mourn for him, as one mourneth for his only son, and shall be in bitterness for him, as one that is in bitterness for his firstborn."(Zechariah 12:10 KJV)


and more about the first and the last, the Lord God and one pf the most powerful trinity verses in the bible ( with 1 John 5:7 KJV)

"12 Hearken unto me, O Jacob and Israel, my called; I am he; I am the first, I also am the last. 13 Mine hand also hath laid the foundation of the earth, and my right hand hath spanned the heavens: when I call unto them, they stand up together.14 All ye, assemble yourselves, and hear; which among them hath declared these things? The Lord hath loved him: he will do his pleasure on Babylon, and his arm shall be on the Chaldeans.15 I, even I, have spoken; yea, I have called him: I have brought him, and he shall make his way prosperous. 16 Come ye near unto me, hear ye this; I have not spoken in secret from the beginning; from the time that it was, there am I: and now the Lord God, and his Spirit, hath sent me. 17 Thus saith the Lord, thy Redeemer, the Holy One of Israel; I am the Lord thy God which teacheth thee to profit, which leadeth thee by the way that thou shouldest go."

Here we see the Lord speaking f the Lord God and His Spirit sending Him. All three are the one Lord. There is one God in being three in person.

more about the Alpha and Omega the first and the last

"13 I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, the first and the last...16 I Jesus have sent mine angel to testify unto you these things in the churches. I am the root and the offspring of David, and the bright and morning star."( Revelation 22:13,16 KJV)

also

we read


"And the LORD appeared unto him in the plains of Mamre: and he sat in the tent door in the heat of the day; 2 And he lift up his eyes and looked, and, lo, three men stood by him: and when he saw them, he ran to meet them from the tent door, and bowed himself toward the ground,"(Genesis 18;1,2 KJV).

The LORD and he saw three men. A type of the trinity it seems.
 
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LoveofTruth

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I say you negate the Son by calling him God Almighty in place of his Father
I don’t call Him God almighty in place of the Father. He is one with the Father and the Father, the Word and the Holy Ghost, these three are one

Jesus said,

“I and my Father are one”(John 10:39 KJV)
 
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LoveofTruth

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You know he is Christ to me. He is God's chosen one. Anointed of his Father to bring salvation to me and to all who would receive him.

Jesus is "the grace of God" to us. Titus 2:11
Is Jesus Christ in you yes or no?
 
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LoveofTruth

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I only hope the best for you. That you would be free from false doctrine and certain groups. That you would come to know the Son of God and the Father and the Holy Ghost and be immersed into the name (character, power, life and authority) of the Father, Son and Holy Ghost.
 
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Buzz_B

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Thank you for your well intended hope.

Likewise.
 
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LoveofTruth

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Thank you for your well intended hope.

Likewise.
When I stand firm in sound doctrine i am bold and sober and grave. But the people I talk to and try to help I reach out in love and grace. I talk to many who are my friends but they have heretical doctrine. It is sad because i fear for them, but i love them and care for their souls.
 
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Ronald

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The JW say Jesus is Michael - they are way off on many doctrines, this one being the biggest.
Michael is mentioned only five times in scripture. Jesus is just about on every page in the New Testament. Then all of a sudden in Rev. 12, he turns back into Michael? No, no, no! Jesus comes with his holy angles in judgment, comes with the sound of an archangel because Michael is with him.
The Old Testament uses LORD, who is Jesus, the Savior, the Messiah. He is God, who appeared to Moses, the Great I Am. In Exodus 3:14 God answers Moses, "I AM WHO I AM." Thus you shall say to the children of Israel, 'I AM has sent me to you..'" This was an introduction to all the "I Am's in John: I am the Bread of Life; I am the Way, the Truth and the Life; I am the Door; I am the Good Shepard; before Abraham was, I AM; I am from above; I am the Resurrection and the Life; I am the vine; I am the Light of the world; then in Revelation, I am the Alpha and the Omega - the Almighty.
Jesus is God in the flesh, angels are not.
Jesus forgave sin, died for our sins and is the Creator. (John 1 , Col. 1:16, 17)
Angels were created beings, they could not take on the sins of the world or die for us, nor do they have the ability to resurrect themselves. They can only be in one place at a time.
Jesus was given all authority in heaven and on earth. To have all authority, you must be omniscient, omnipresent and omnipotent -- angels are not.

In most cases when "an angel of the LORD" is mentioned, it is an angel not the LORD Himself. The angel represents the Lord. And so it is appropriate to address this angel as Lord, your message returning back the God. As in a conversation with someone who sends a messenger, you would tell the messenger, Tell this person that I said ... but this not necessary when your message is going directly to God, since God is there and hears your words and knows them before you even speak, so you speak directly to the Almighty, Lord ...

Angel of the Lord
(Heb. mal'ak yehwah), a supernatural being who brings a message on behalf of God. The angel of the Lord is identified with God, while in other instances a distinction is made between the Lord and the angel. The terms "the angel of the Lord, " "the Lord, " and "God" are interchangeable.
Christophanies, are special appearances of Christ in the form of a human BEFORE his birth to Mary.
Jacob wrestles with the LORD and He gives Him a new name, Israel. This was a Christophanie.

"Then he showed me Joshua the high priest standing before the angel of the
Lord, and Satan standing at his right side to accuse him." Zech. 3:1
Lord was used to address someone high in position, in this case, an angel. Some may interpret this as God - I don't think so. The message always comes from God. Michael and Satan have been having it out for a long time -- I would say this is Michael. Michael also does war against Satan in the end times as I mentioned.
 
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Buzz_B

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I believe you are speaking the truth about that.

I also know that most people do not speak false doctrines with the conscious intentions of hurting anyone. Most who do that do care.

I have no intentions of debating the false Trinity doctrine here in this thread. I see the posts in support of the Trinity and I see right through what they say. I see the mistakes you and the last poster are making and understand how easy it is to reach those errant conclusions. But the subject of this thread is Michael the Archangel who may well be Jesus Christ being as his name was not Jesus until he came in the flesh. And there is indeed no other name given UNDER HEAVEN in which men may be saved.

That being said, it is probably not right to push another name than Jesus UNDER HEAVEN in which to be saved.

You'll note that I changed the preposition to "in", for "no other name given UNDER HEAVEN in which ..'

That "in" is a comparison to the fact that "IN" Adam all die but "IN" Jesus as our last Adam to replace that fallen first Adam, we can all live. 1 Corinthians 15:22 *
1 Corinthians 15:45
 
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Buzz_B

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For those who think Jehovah's Witnesses are the inventors of the belief that Jesus Christ and Michael the Archangel are one and the same person, I found the following article in my old notes. I really do not know who wrote it, as I must have forgotten to note who. But the article speaks for itself:


If anyone knows from where I must have gotten that article, I would appreciate your letting me know so that I may make record of it.

Thank you.
 
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miknik5

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Michael is not JESUS
and is a distinct and separate messenger from the “man in linen” (Daniel) who has authority over both Michael and Gabriel (as shown in the book of Daniel)
 
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miknik5

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Can you be baptized into an angel
 
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