Jesus and the Talmud?

[Boltwave]

Jesus-mythers like to make the claim that Jesus is found in the Talmud long before his traditionally accepted timeline. If this is true, this makes Jesus a mythical character like many of the other myths passed down in history, this gives the entire timespan of Jesus' biggest fame over more than two centuries dating from 100 B.C. - 100 A.D. (Including the following synoptic gospels.)

I have noticed however that there are people who are familiar with the Talmud on this very forum and still remain Christian believers, I cast no doubts on anyone's level of education or knowledge as I have received many legitemate answers which I've built off from which seems to make a strong case for the Christian religion if anything else, but despite of the current evidences, these objections made by Jesus-myth atheists must be answered too, otherwise it only proves that Christianity is a false religion based on a false idea.

NOTE TO MODERATOR(S): Please remove my other two threads titled "The Talmud?", for some odd reason the server did not allow for any post content to process through and ended up with an invalid link with no visible dialouge.

 

[HypnoToad]

This page:
http://www.angelfire.com/mt/talmud/jesusi.html
seems to address it.

 

[huldah153]

.

 

[Catherineanne]

Jesus-mythers like to make the claim that Jesus is found in the Talmud long before his traditionally accepted timeline.

I think you misunderstand something about Jesus, and about Christianity.

The Gospel of John (vv 1 - 5) states the following:

In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
The same was in the beginning with God.
All things were made by Him, and without Him was not anything made that was made.
In him was life, and the life was the light of men.
And the light shines in the darkness, but the darkness does not understand it.

In other words (and this is not the only reference, but is a very clear, very beautiful one) Christ exists with God from the beginning, and is with God from the beginning.

In the light of that underlying foundation to our faith, of course we will find Christ in the Talmud. Anywhere we find God, we find Christ.

This is not a new take on Christianity; it is what Christ said of himself, and it is central to our faith. Not a myth added on top, but the heart of all that we believe. Christ said; I and my Father are one and the same. That is our faith.

The person you might call the historical Jesus, the man, clearly has a lifespan contained in time, from about 5BC to 33AD. But that is not the whole story, and never has been, for our faith. God is from everlasting to everlasting, and Christ is the same.

 

[dvd_holc]

First, Jesus was a common name...1/4 high priest in 2nd temple age was named Jesus.

Second, the actual Jesus is talked about in the Talmud...and they have some bible supporting information...example: Jesus subverted the people away from their cultural heirtage and said He did sorcery...we see the same arguements in the bible. However, Jesus in the bible had a different view for the culture and how to be a light to the world.

Third, (as mentioned) myth-builders look to any information to being credible to building a myth. However, if you are interested in someone who is a scholar in both the NT and Talmud, I recommend David Flusser. David Flusser was directly opposed to the Nazi myth building in a time when both Christian and Jewish tensions because of the Nazi's myth.

 

[Boltwave]

First, Jesus was a common name...1/4 high priest in 2nd temple age was named Jesus.

Second, the actual Jesus is talked about in the Talmud...and they have some bible supporting information...example: Jesus subverted the people away from their cultural heirtage and said He did sorcery...we see the same arguements in the bible. However, Jesus in the bible had a different view for the culture and how to be a light to the world.

Third, (as mentioned) myth-builders look to any information to being credible to building a myth. However, if you are interested in someone who is a scholar in both the NT and Talmud, I recommend David Flusser. David Flusser was directly opposed to the Nazi myth building in a time when both Christian and Jewish tensions because of the Nazi's myth.

The problem with that assertion is the fact that the Talmud predates Jesus' lifetime. I don't understand how you can accept that Jesus is actually mentioned in that book when Jesus-mythers use it to their own advantage, and they can, simply because it better fits their thesis than the Christian one, unless the Talmud just so happens to span over Jesus' lifetime.

I'll continue to study that link, because it sounds as though the idea a mythical manifestation of Christ came from the Talmud is very thin.

 

[BelindaP]

The problem with that assertion is the fact that the Talmud predates Jesus' lifetime. I don't understand how you can accept that Jesus is actually mentioned in that book when Jesus-mythers use it to their own advantage, and they can, simply because it better fits their thesis than the Christian one, unless the Talmud just so happens to span over Jesus' lifetime.

I'll continue to study that link, because it sounds as though the idea a mythical manifestation of Christ came from the Talmud is very thin.

Actually, the Talmud was being written in Jesus' lifetime and for a time thereafter.

 

[Boltwave]

Actually, the Talmud was being written in Jesus' lifetime and for a time thereafter.

Hmmmm...........

 

[dvd_holc]

The problem with that assertion is the fact that the Talmud predates Jesus' lifetime. I don't understand how you can accept that Jesus is actually mentioned in that book when Jesus-mythers use it to their own advantage, and they can, simply because it better fits their thesis than the Christian one, unless the Talmud just so happens to span over Jesus' lifetime.

I'll continue to study that link, because it sounds as though the idea a mythical manifestation of Christ came from the Talmud is very thin.

Why would not I have a problem with Jesus being mentioned in the Talmud? I put to you that they same frictions that are record in the bible are recorded in the Talmud. You still have not told me when they (the myth builders) believe the Talmud says Jesus lived. So when was it? Likewise, I put to you a credible first century scholar who is an expert in Jesus and the Talmud that beliefs that the Biblical record is indeed authenitic which I suggest you look into...Finally, myth builders are not a threat to the bible...but to people. The bible is authenic but those who don't look those with authority to interpret it then those who are lead by the blind will fall into the pit.

 

[ContentInHim]

Is there a problem here confusing the Talmud with the Torah (first 5 books of the OT). I find Jesus all through the OT but the Torah just is lit up throughout with him and the expectation of him.

The Talmud was written by the rabbis and sages about the Torah. Don't study the Talmud - study the Torah!

 

[heron]

If this is true, this makes Jesus a mythical character like many of the other myths passed down in history

Judeo-Christianity is full of prophecy. When something is spoken of before its time, it is preparation for the reality.

You might find reading Luke 1 helpful in getting a sense of this. An angel spoke to the father of John the Baptist, referring to Malachi 4: 5, 6 --

"And he will go out before Him in the spirit and power of Elijah 'to turn the hearts of fathers to their children,' and disobedient ones to the wisdom of the just, to make ready a people having been prepared for the Lord."

After the angel Gabriel appeared to Mary, she ran to John the Baptist's mother and quoted 1 Sam. 1:11 --

"For, behold, from now on all generations will count me blessed."

The Jews were fully expecting Him to come.


​

 

[Boltwave]

Is there a problem here confusing the Talmud with the Torah (first 5 books of the OT). I find Jesus all through the OT but the Torah just is lit up throughout with him and the expectation of him.

The Talmud was written by the rabbis and sages about the Torah. Don't study the Talmud - study the Torah!

I was referring to the references made too about Jesus which is used as a proponent to the Jesus-Myth hypothesis, being that it refers to multiple different Jesuses.