JESUS and the APOSTLES OBEYED GOD'S LAW and the SABBATH!

HIM · May 25, 2021

Leaf473 said:
I reread your post.

But I'm not sure if you're saying that Jesus came to fulfill the law and the prophets but was unsuccessful,

or if you're saying that Jesus did not come to fulfill the law and the prophets and instead fulfilled something else.

What was put out in the post was the context showing that when Jesus said,
Matt 5:17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.

Fulfill could not possibly be He done it so we do not have to because Not one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.

All has not been fulfilled. Heaven and Earth have not passed away. Therefore not one jot or tittle has passed from the Law because all has not been fulfilled. Therefore if we break one of these least, small commandments and teach man so we will in no wise enter into the Kingdom of Heaven. Because our righteousness has not exceeded the righteousness of the Pharisees, Whom say and do not.

Matt 5:18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.
Matt 5:19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.
Matt 5:20 For I say unto you, That except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven.

Leaf473 · May 25, 2021

HIM said:
Do you agree?

I don't have a strong feeling either way as to how the verse should be translated.

If I'm talking with someone who has strong feelings that it has to be rendered a certain way, and it's a reasonable possibility, then I like to follow that out. See where we end up.

Leaf473 · May 25, 2021

HIM said:
What was put out in the post was the context showing that when Jesus said,
Matt 5:17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.

Fulfill could not possibly be He done it so we do not have to because Not one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.

All has not been fulfilled. Heaven and Earth have not passed away. Therefore not one jot or tittle has passed from the Law because all has not been fulfilled. Therefore if we break one of these least, small commandments and teach man so we will in no wise enter into the Kingdom of Heaven. Because our righteousness has not exceeded the righteousness of the Pharisees, Whom say and do not.

Let's follow that out.

I think one of the least commandments would be to put fringes on your clothes.

Do you believe we should take those physical actions?

Matt 5:18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.
Matt 5:19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.
Matt 5:20 For I say unto you, That except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven.

SabbathBlessings · May 25, 2021

Leaf473 said:
Let's follow that out.

I think one of the least commandments would be to put fringes on your clothes.

Do you believe we should take those physical actions?

Leaf,

I’m curious if you understand the differences between the Law of Moses and God's Ten Commandments? The tassels were to remind the Israelites of God's laws. Paul summed it up when he said what matters is keeping God's laws 1 Corinthians 7:19. Here is the patience of the saints; here are those who keep the commandments of God and the faith of Jesus. Revelations 14:12. Let us hear the conclusion of the whole matter: Fear God and keep His commandments, For this is man’s all. Ecclesiastes 12:13 Everything points to keeping God's laws that’s why they were written by God on stone and spoken by our Savior and stored in the most holy of holy in His Temple.

Just common sense, do you really think God is okay when we lie, or steal, or bow to idols, worship other gods, break His holy day? Jesus did not come to Earth as a sacrifice for you and me to give a license to sin.

Incidentally, I sign up for daily devotionals and the one today is fitting on this subject so I will share:

Some Christians believe that the Ten Commandment law was only a part of the law of Moses, which disappeared with the old covenant. These verses in Hebrews 10 are used to support this premise.

The “law” of verse 8 is undoubtedly associated with the “first” covenant, which is taken away in verse 9. But did that law include the Ten Commandments? Those same sacrifices and sin offerings are described in 2 Chronicles 8:12, 13, when Solomon offered burnt offerings “according to the commandment of Moses.”

This makes it plain that the law concerning those burnt offerings—the one mentioned in Hebrews 10:8—was called the commandment or law of Moses. It was part of the old covenant system that was taken away by “the offering of the body of Jesus Christ” (verse 10). But note: The Ten Commandments were not part of that. Christ is quoted in verse 9, saying, “ ‘Behold, I have come to do Your will, O God.’ He takes away the first that He may establish the second.”

The full text of what Christ said comes from Psalm 40:8, which says, “I delight to do Your will, O my God, and Your law is within my heart.” This law is tied to the second (or new) covenant that was to be established. This is reinforced a few verses later in Hebrews 10, where it says, “This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, says the Lord: I will put My laws into their hearts, and in their minds I will write them” (v. 16).

The law that was in the heart of Jesus and which did not end with the old covenant is the Ten Commandment law. Magnified by Christ (Isaiah 42:21), it was transferred from the tables of stone to the tables of the heart.

BABerean2 · May 25, 2021

HIM said:
All has not been fulfilled. Heaven and Earth have not passed away. Therefore not one jot or tittle has passed from the Law because all has not been fulfilled.

Mat 5:17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.
Mat 5:18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.

Have animal sacrifices been fulfilled?

Has circumcision been fulfilled?

Have the feasts been fulfilled?

What part of Jeremiah 31:31-34 is not found fulfilled in Hebrews 8:6-13?

When Christ said "It is finished." on the cross, do you think He left out something?
(See John 19:30)

Read Galatians 3:16-29 where Paul said the law was "added" 430 years "after" the promise made to Abraham "until" the seed (Christ) could come to whom the promise was made.
This passage reveals the temporary nature of the Sinai Covenant.

.

LoveGodsWord · May 25, 2021

BABerean2 said:
Mat 5:17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.
Mat 5:18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.

Have animal sacrifices been fulfilled?

Has circumcision been fulfilled?

Have the feasts been fulfilled?

What part of Jeremiah 31:31-34 is not found fulfilled in Hebrews 8:6-13?

When Christ said "It is finished." on the cross, do you think He left out something?
(See John 19:30)

Read Galatians 3:16-29 where Paul said the law was "added" 430 years "after" the promise made to Abraham "until" the seed (Christ) could come to whom the promise was made.
This passage reveals the temporary nature of the Sinai Covenan.

What laws are Matthew 5 referring to that pointed to Jesus and are fulfilled in Jesus and what law is Jesus referring to that he magnifies and makes honorable applying them to our very thoughts and feelings (the heart - Matthew 5:21-22; Matthew 5:27-28)? When Jesus said "it is finished" his work on earth was finished not our requirement to be obedient to believing and following His Word. If Jesus therefore says "Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil." - Matthew 5:17 why would you interpret these scriptures as Jesus coming to destroy the law and the prophets when he says those who do so will be the least in the kingdom of Heaven while those who teach them and obey them will be called great? Jesus also saying that Heaven and earth shall pass away before the law does in Matthew 5:18. Your teachings therefore are the opposite of the very words of Jesus in Matthew 5:17-20.

Something to pray about.

BABerean2 · May 25, 2021

LoveGodsWord said:
Your teachings therefore are the opposite of the very words of Jesus in Matthew 5:17-20.

It is the same teaching found in Paul's writings below.

Gal 3:16 Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He saith not, And to seeds, as of many; but as of one, And to thy seed, which is Christ.
Gal 3:17 And this I say, that the covenant, that was confirmed before of God in Christ, the law, which was four hundred and thirty years after, cannot disannul, that it should make the promise of none effect.
Gal 3:18 For if the inheritance be of the law, it is no more of promise: but God gave it to Abraham by promise.
Gal 3:19 Wherefore then serveth the law? It was added because of transgressions, till the seed should come to whom the promise was made; and it was ordained by angels in the hand of a mediator.
Gal 3:20 Now a mediator is not a mediator of one, but God is one.
Gal 3:21 Is the law then against the promises of God? God forbid: for if there had been a law given which could have given life, verily righteousness should have been by the law.

Paul said the law was "added" 430 years "after" the promise made to Abraham "until" the seed (Christ) could come to whom the promise was made.

Paul and I agree.

Paul and you do not agree.

.

Leaf473 · May 25, 2021

Hi SabbathBlessings,
Thank you for the nice message!

Lots of great points and questions in it. I'm happy to talk about each of them one at a time.

SabbathBlessings said:
I’m curious if you understand the differences between the Law of Moses and God's Ten Commandments?

Which differences there are depends somewhat on how a person interprets various scriptures.

Most people agree that one difference is that the Ten commandments were inside the ark, the other laws outside of the ark.

But here
Luke 24:44 He said to them, "This is what I told you, while I was still with you, that all things which are written in the law of Moses, the prophets, and the psalms, concerning me must be fulfilled."
the phrase "the law of Moses" seems to refer to the entire first five books of the Bible. So I think that would include the ten commandments in that instance.

Do we agree there? If so what shall we talk about next?

LoveGodsWord · May 25, 2021

BABerean2 said:
It is the same teaching found in Paul's writings below.

Gal 3:16 Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He saith not, And to seeds, as of many; but as of one, And to thy seed, which is Christ.
Gal 3:17 And this I say, that the covenant, that was confirmed before of God in Christ, the law, which was four hundred and thirty years after, cannot disannul, that it should make the promise of none effect.
Gal 3:18 For if the inheritance be of the law, it is no more of promise: but God gave it to Abraham by promise.
Gal 3:19 Wherefore then serveth the law? It was added because of transgressions, till the seed should come to whom the promise was made; and it was ordained by angels in the hand of a mediator.
Gal 3:20 Now a mediator is not a mediator of one, but God is one.
Gal 3:21 Is the law then against the promises of God? God forbid: for if there had been a law given which could have given life, verily righteousness should have been by the law.

Paul said the law was "added" 430 years "after" the promise made to Abraham "until" the seed (Christ) could come to whom the promise was made.

Paul and I agree.

Paul and you do not agree.

.

Actually no. Paul does not agree with you at all as he says faith does not abolish God's law it establishes Gods' law in the lives of those who believe Gods Word in Romans 3:31 and says that if we love our neighbor as our self in Romans 13:8-10 we will obey God's law and in Romans 8:4 that the righteousness of God's law is established in the lives of those who walk not after the flesh but after the Spirit in Romans 8:4 and Galatians 5:16 as well as circumcision is nothing and uncircumcision is nothing but the keeping of the commandments of God in 1 Corinthians 7:19. Even in Galatians 3 including the very next verses you leave out show that the purpose of God's law is to lead us to Christ that we might be forgiven through faith in Galatians 3:16-25 which Paul clearly states in Romans 3:31 that faith does not abolish Gods' law it establishes God's law. No Paul indeed disagrees with you and your interpretation of Galatians 3 seems to have Paul contradicting himself. The scriptures never contradict themselves. If we find ourselves in contradiction of the scriptures it should be a warning to us that perhaps our interpretation of them is in error.

Something to pray about.

BABerean2 · May 25, 2021

LoveGodsWord said:
Even in Galatians 3 the very next verses you leave out show that the purpose of God's law is to lead us to Christ that we might be forgiven through faith in Galatians 3:22-25. No Paul indeed disagrees with you.

Do you think the next few verses of Galatians chapter 3 erase the previous verses?

The other verses must agree with verse 19, and they do.

The word "was" in verse 24 is past tense.

And we are no longer under a schoolmaster in verse 25, all in agreement with what Paul said in verse 19 about the temporary nature of the Sinai Covenant.

Gal 3:16 Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He saith not, And to seeds, as of many; but as of one, And to thy seed, which is Christ.
Gal 3:17 And this I say, that the covenant, that was confirmed before of God in Christ, the law, which was four hundred and thirty years after, cannot disannul, that it should make the promise of none effect.
Gal 3:18 For if the inheritance be of the law, it is no more of promise: but God gave it to Abraham by promise.
Gal 3:19 Wherefore then serveth the law? It was added because of transgressions, till the seed should come to whom the promise was made; and it was ordained by angels in the hand of a mediator.
Gal 3:20 Now a mediator is not a mediator of one, but God is one.
Gal 3:21 Is the law then against the promises of God? God forbid: for if there had been a law given which could have given life, verily righteousness should have been by the law.
Gal 3:22 But the scripture hath concluded all under sin, that the promise by faith of Jesus Christ might be given to them that believe.
Gal 3:23 But before faith came, we were kept under the law, shut up unto the faith which should afterwards be revealed.
Gal 3:24 Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.
Gal 3:25 But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster.
Gal 3:26 For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus.
Gal 3:27 For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.
Gal 3:28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.
Gal 3:29 And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.

.

LoveGodsWord · May 25, 2021

BABerean2 said:
Do you think the next few verses of Galatians chapter 3 erase the previous verses?

The other verses must agree with verse 19, and they do.

The word "was" in verse 24 is past tense.

And we are no longer under a schoolmaster in verse 25, all in agreement with what Paul said in verse 19 about the temporary nature of the Sinai Covenant.

Gal 3:16 Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He saith not, And to seeds, as of many; but as of one, And to thy seed, which is Christ.
Gal 3:17 And this I say, that the covenant, that was confirmed before of God in Christ, the law, which was four hundred and thirty years after, cannot disannul, that it should make the promise of none effect.
Gal 3:18 For if the inheritance be of the law, it is no more of promise: but God gave it to Abraham by promise.
Gal 3:19 Wherefore then serveth the law? It was added because of transgressions, till the seed should come to whom the promise was made; and it was ordained by angels in the hand of a mediator.
Gal 3:20 Now a mediator is not a mediator of one, but God is one.
Gal 3:21 Is the law then against the promises of God? God forbid: for if there had been a law given which could have given life, verily righteousness should have been by the law.
Gal 3:22 But the scripture hath concluded all under sin, that the promise by faith of Jesus Christ might be given to them that believe.
Gal 3:23 But before faith came, we were kept under the law, shut up unto the faith which should afterwards be revealed.
Gal 3:24 Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.
Gal 3:25 But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster.
Gal 3:26 For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus.
Gal 3:27 For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.
Gal 3:28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.
Gal 3:29 And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.
.

God's law is past tense to what (Galatians 3:24)? - Faith and coming to Christ. Not to abolishing God's law. God's law has the same role it always has and that is to give us the knowledge of what sin is when broken and righteousness when obeyed *Romans 3:20; Romans 7:7; 1 John 3:4. As posted earlier faith does not abolish God's law according to Romans 3:31 it establishes Gods' law in all those who believe and follow God's Word. That is we become obedient to obeying Gods' law through not walking after the flesh but walking after the Spirit through the Word of God *Romans 8:4; Galatians 5:16; John 6:63. This is why Paul says that if we love our neighbor as our self in Romans 13:8-10 we will obey God's law. We are only "under the law" in this context when we stand before God guilty of breaking the law according to Paul in Romans 3:19. Your interpretation of the scriptures has Paul contradicting Paul which is not biblical

SabbathBlessings · May 25, 2021

Leaf473 said:
Hi SabbathBlessings,
Thank you for the nice message!

Lots of great points and questions in it. I'm happy to talk about each of them one at a time.

Which differences there are depends somewhat on how a person interprets various scriptures.

Most people agree that one difference is that the Ten commandments were inside the ark, the other laws outside of the ark.

But here
Luke 24:44 He said to them, "This is what I told you, while I was still with you, that all things which are written in the law of Moses, the prophets, and the psalms, concerning me must be fulfilled."
the phrase "the law of Moses" seems to refer to the entire first five books of the Bible. So I think that would include the ten commandments in that instance.

Do we agree there? If so what shall we talk about next?

Yes, that is one of the differences between the law of Moses and God’s Ten Commandments is that the Ten were placed inside the ark and placed in the Most Holy of Holy in God’s Temple. This alone is significant, but that is not the only difference. I think a lot of people have a hard time distinguishing the Ten Commandments vs Law of Moses and it really confuses people once they get to Paul’s writings in Galatians and Colossians, despite Paul clearly telling us what matters-keeping God’s laws.

Here are some highlights of the differences.....

Law of God

Called the law of the Lord (God) Isaiah 5:24
Written by God on stone Exodus 31:18, 32:16
Placed inside the ark Exodus 40:20
Points out sin Romans 7:7, 3:20
Not grievous 1 John 5:3
Called “The Royal Law” James 2:8
Judges all men James 2:10-12
Is spiritual 7:14
Brings blessings and peace Proverbs 29:18, Psalms 119:165
Is perfect Psalms 19:7
Is eternal Mathew 5:17-19

Law of Moses

Called law of Moses Luke 2:22, 1 Corinthians 9:9
Written by Moses in a book. Deuteronomy 31:24, 2 Chronicles 35:12
Placed by the side of the ark Deuteronomy 31:26
Added because of sin Galatians 3:19
Was contrary to us Colossians 2:14
Contained the ordinances Ephesians 2:15
Judges no man Colossians 2:14-16
Was carnal Hebrews 7:16
Contained curses Deuteronomy 29:20-21, Galatians 3:10
Made nothing perfect Hebrews 7:19
Temporary Colossians 2:14, Hebrews 8:13

God’s laws are perfect and they are made from love. Exodus 20:6, John 14:15, John 15:10, 1 John 5:3 and we fulfill God’s laws written in our hearts in the new covenant when we obey. The theme I gather from your posts is you put the law of God on equal ground with the law of Moses. Jesus was our perfect sacrifice and the ceremonial laws like circumcision, burnt offerings, feasts were nailed to the cross in contrast God’s laws are eternal Psalms 89:34, Palms 111:8,9 which is why Paul understood these differences and clearly made the distinction Circumcision is nothing and uncircumcision is nothing, but keeping the commandments of God is what matters. 1 Corinthians 7:19. Keeping God’s commandments is supposed to be our ALL. Let us hear the conclusion of the whole matter: Fear God and keep His commandments, For this is man’s all. Ecclesiastes 12:13

I hope this helps.
God bless

HIM · May 26, 2021

BABerean2 said:
Do you think the next few verses of Galatians chapter 3 erase the previous verses?

The other verses must agree with verse 19, and they do.

The word "was" in verse 24 is past tense.

And we are no longer under a schoolmaster in verse 25, all in agreement with what Paul said in verse 19 about the temporary nature of the Sinai Covenant.

Gal 3:16 Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He saith not, And to seeds, as of many; but as of one, And to thy seed, which is Christ.
Gal 3:17 And this I say, that the covenant, that was confirmed before of God in Christ, the law, which was four hundred and thirty years after, cannot disannul, that it should make the promise of none effect.
Gal 3:18 For if the inheritance be of the law, it is no more of promise: but God gave it to Abraham by promise.
Gal 3:19 Wherefore then serveth the law? It was added because of transgressions, till the seed should come to whom the promise was made; and it was ordained by angels in the hand of a mediator.
Gal 3:20 Now a mediator is not a mediator of one, but God is one.
Gal 3:21 Is the law then against the promises of God? God forbid: for if there had been a law given which could have given life, verily righteousness should have been by the law.
Gal 3:22 But the scripture hath concluded all under sin, that the promise by faith of Jesus Christ might be given to them that believe.
Gal 3:23 But before faith came, we were kept under the law, shut up unto the faith which should afterwards be revealed.
Gal 3:24 Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.
Gal 3:25 But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster.
Gal 3:26 For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus.
Gal 3:27 For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.
Gal 3:28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.
Gal 3:29 And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.

.

Here is a more literal rendering.

Gal 3:24
ὥστε So That
ὁ The
νόμος Law
παιδαγωγὸς Tutor
ἡμῶν Ours,
γέγονεν BECOME
εἰς INTO
Χριστόν Christ,
ἵνα That
ἐκ By
πίστεως Faith
δικαιωθῶμεν· We Might Be Righteous.

Gal 3:26
Πάντες γὰρ For All
υἱοὶ Sons
θεοῦ Of God
ἐστε Ye Are
διὰ Through
τῆς THE
πίστεως Faith
ἐν IN
Χριστῷ Christ
Ἰησοῦ· Jesus.

Gal 3:27
ὅσοι γὰρ For As Many As
εἰς into
Χριστὸν Christ
ἐβαπτίσθητε Were Baptized,
Χριστὸν Christ
ἐνεδύσασθε Ye Did Put On.

Which all hinges on Gal 2:22

For we are dead nevertheless we live, yet NOT US but Christ Liveth in us. And the the LIFE WE NOW LIVE in the flesh, we live by the FAITH OF the Son of God who gave himself for us.

Leaf473 · May 26, 2021

SabbathBlessings said:
Yes, that is one of the differences between the law of Moses and God’s Ten Commandments is that the Ten were placed inside the ark and placed in the Most Holy of Holy in God’s Temple. This alone is significant, but that is not the only difference. I think a lot of people have a hard time distinguishing the Ten Commandments vs Law of Moses and it really confuses people once they get to Paul’s writings in Galatians and Colossians, despite Paul clearly telling us what matters-keeping God’s laws.

Here are some highlights of the differences.....

Law of God
Called the law of the Lord (God) Isaiah 5:24
Written by God on stone Exodus 31:18, 32:16
Placed inside the ark Exodus 40:20
Points out sin Romans 7:7, 3:20
Not grievous 1 John 5:3
Called “The Royal Law” James 2:8
Judges all men James 2:10-12
Is spiritual 7:14
Brings blessings and peace Proverbs 29:18, Psalms 119:165
Is perfect Psalms 19:7
Is eternal Mathew 5:17-19

Law of Moses
Called law of Moses Luke 2:22, 1 Corinthians 9:9
Written by Moses in a book. Deuteronomy 31:24, 2 Chronicles 35:12
Placed by the side of the ark Deuteronomy 31:26
Added because of sin Galatians 3:19
Was contrary to us Colossians 2:14
Contained the ordinances Ephesians 2:15
Judges no man Colossians 2:14-16
Was carnal Hebrews 7:16
Contained curses Deuteronomy 29:20-21, Galatians 3:10
Made nothing perfect Hebrews 7:19
Temporary Colossians 2:14, Hebrews 8:13

God’s laws are perfect and they are made from love. Exodus 20:6, John 14:15, John 15:10, 1 John 5:3 and we fulfill God’s laws written in our hearts in the new covenant when we obey. The theme I gather from your posts is you put the law of God on equal ground with the law of Moses. Jesus was our perfect sacrifice and the ceremonial laws like circumcision, burnt offerings, feasts were nailed to the cross in contrast God’s laws are eternal Psalms 89:34, Palms 111:8,9 which is why Paul understood these differences and clearly made the distinction Circumcision is nothing and uncircumcision is nothing, but keeping the commandments of God is what matters. 1 Corinthians 7:19. Keeping God’s commandments is supposed to be our ALL. Let us hear the conclusion of the whole matter: Fear God and keep His commandments, For this is man’s all. Ecclesiastes 12:13

I hope this helps.
God bless

Hi SabbathBlessings, thank you for the nice post.

Let's talk about this part

The theme I gather from your posts is you put the law of God on equal ground with the law of Moses.

Jesus included the Ten commandments in "the law of Moses".

Since the phrase "the law of Moses" can include the ten commandments, yes, I do put them on an equal footing.

Which is not to say that all laws have the same weight. Jesus talked about the weightier things of the law like justice, mercy, and faith.

Leaf473 · May 26, 2021

SabbathBlessings said:
Yes, that is one of the differences between the law of Moses and God’s Ten Commandments is that the Ten were placed inside the ark and placed in the Most Holy of Holy in God’s Temple. This alone is significant, but that is not the only difference. I think a lot of people have a hard time distinguishing the Ten Commandments vs Law of Moses and it really confuses people once they get to Paul’s writings in Galatians and Colossians, despite Paul clearly telling us what matters-keeping God’s laws.

Here are some highlights of the differences.....

Law of God

Called the law of the Lord (God) Isaiah 5:24

Written by God on stone Exodus 31:18, 32:16

Placed inside the ark Exodus 40:20

Points out sin Romans 7:7, 3:20

Not grievous 1 John 5:3

Called “The Royal Law” James 2:8

Judges all men James 2:10-12

Is spiritual 7:14

Brings blessings and peace Proverbs 29:18, Psalms 119:165

Is perfect Psalms 19:7

Is eternal Mathew 5:17-19

Law of Moses

Called law of Moses Luke 2:22, 1 Corinthians 9:9

Written by Moses in a book. Deuteronomy 31:24, 2 Chronicles 35:12

Placed by the side of the ark Deuteronomy 31:26

Added because of sin Galatians 3:19

Was contrary to us Colossians 2:14

Contained the ordinances Ephesians 2:15

Judges no man Colossians 2:14-16

Was carnal Hebrews 7:16

Contained curses Deuteronomy 29:20-21, Galatians 3:10

Made nothing perfect Hebrews 7:19

Temporary Colossians 2:14, Hebrews 8:13

God’s laws are perfect and they are made from love. Exodus 20:6, John 14:15, John 15:10, 1 John 5:3 and we fulfill God’s laws written in our hearts in the new covenant when we obey. The theme I gather from your posts is you put the law of God on equal ground with the law of Moses. Jesus was our perfect sacrifice and the ceremonial laws like circumcision, burnt offerings, feasts were nailed to the cross in contrast God’s laws are eternal Psalms 89:34, Palms 111:8,9 which is why Paul understood these differences and clearly made the distinction Circumcision is nothing and uncircumcision is nothing, but keeping the commandments of God is what matters. 1 Corinthians 7:19. Keeping God’s commandments is supposed to be our ALL. Let us hear the conclusion of the whole matter: Fear God and keep His commandments, For this is man’s all. Ecclesiastes 12:13

I hope this helps.
God bless

Also, to help avoid misunderstandings,

Are you using "law of God" to mean the same as "the Ten commandments"?

Or does "law of God" include laws from the Old testament in addition to the Ten commandments?

SabbathBlessings · May 26, 2021

Leaf473 said:
Hi SabbathBlessings, thank you for the nice post.

Let's talk about this part

Jesus included the Ten commandments in "the law of Moses".

Since the phrase "the law of Moses" can include the ten commandments, yes, I do put them on an equal footing.

Which is not to say that all laws have the same weight. Jesus talked about the weightier things of the law like justice, mercy, and faith.

God made the distinction between His laws and the laws of Moses so no, I would not put them in the same category or on equal footing. Paul made the distinction as well. As did King Solomon. John did as well. I provided a rather detailed list of the differences. My suggestion would be to take a step back and prayerfully study these scriptures, because it's really important and you seem to be of the mindset that both set of laws ended at the cross and that is not the case. Wouldn't you want to know now that Jesus expects us to keep the Ten Commandments or wait until it's too late?

BABerean2 · May 26, 2021

SabbathBlessings said:
Wouldn't you want to know now that Jesus expects us to keep the Ten Commandments or wait until it's too late?

Why did Jesus use two different sets of commandments in the verse below?

John 15:10

(ESV) If you keep my commandments, you will abide in my love, just as I have kept my Father's commandments and abide in his love.

(ESV+) R11If you keep my commandments, you will abide in my love, just as R12I have kept R13my Father's commandments and abide in his love.

(Geneva) If ye shall keepe my commandements, ye shall abide in my loue, as I haue kept my Fathers commandements, and abide in his loue.

(GW) If you obey my commandments, you will live in my love. I have obeyed my Father's commandments, and in that way I live in his love.

(KJV) If ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love; even as I have kept my Father's commandments, and abide in his love.

(KJV+) IfG1437 ye keepG5083 myG3450 commandments,G1785 ye shall abideG3306 inG1722 myG3450 love;G26 even asG2531 IG1473 have keptG5083 myG3450 Father'sG3962 commandments,G1785 andG2532 abideG3306 inG1722 hisG846 love.G26

(NKJV) If you keep My commandments, you will abide in My love, just as I have kept My Father's commandments and abide in His love.

(YLT) if my commandments ye may keep, ye shall remain in my love, according as I the commands of my Father have kept, and do remain in His love;

-------------------------------------

John also recorded "his commandments" below.

1Jn 3:22 And whatsoever we ask, we receive of him, because we keep his commandments, and do those things that are pleasing in his sight.
1Jn 3:23 And this is his commandment, That we should believe on the name of his Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, as he gave us commandment.
1Jn 3:24 And he that keepeth his commandments dwelleth in him, and he in him. And hereby we know that he abideth in us, by the Spirit which he hath given us.

.

SabbathBlessings · May 26, 2021

BABerean2 said:
Why did Jesus use two different sets of commandments in the verse below?

John 15:10

(ESV) If you keep my commandments, you will abide in my love, just as I have kept my Father's commandments and abide in his love.

(ESV+) R11If you keep my commandments, you will abide in my love, just as R12I have kept R13my Father's commandments and abide in his love.

(Geneva) If ye shall keepe my commandements, ye shall abide in my loue, as I haue kept my Fathers commandements, and abide in his loue.

(GW) If you obey my commandments, you will live in my love. I have obeyed my Father's commandments, and in that way I live in his love.

(KJV) If ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love; even as I have kept my Father's commandments, and abide in his love.

(KJV+) IfG1437 ye keepG5083 myG3450 commandments,G1785 ye shall abideG3306 inG1722 myG3450 love;G26 even asG2531 IG1473 have keptG5083 myG3450 Father'sG3962 commandments,G1785 andG2532 abideG3306 inG1722 hisG846 love.G26

(NKJV) If you keep My commandments, you will abide in My love, just as I have kept My Father's commandments and abide in His love.

(YLT) if my commandments ye may keep, ye shall remain in my love, according as I the commands of my Father have kept, and do remain in His love;

-------------------------------------

John also recorded "his commandments" below.

1Jn 3:22 And whatsoever we ask, we receive of him, because we keep his commandments, and do those things that are pleasing in his sight.
1Jn 3:23 And this is his commandment, That we should believe on the name of his Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, as he gave us commandment.
1Jn 3:24 And he that keepeth his commandments dwelleth in him, and he in him. And hereby we know that he abideth in us, by the Spirit which he hath given us.

.

We went through this before as well. Jesus and God's laws are not at odds with each other. God's will is not different than Jesus's will. Is this the only place commandments are mentioned? This verse does not delete the other commandments. I would recommend understanding that because it seems really important.

Revelations 22:15 But outside are dogs and sorcerers and sexually immoral and murderers and idolaters, and whoever loves and practices a lie.

In contrast to:

Revelations 22:14 Blessed are those who do His commandments, that they may have the right to the tree of life, and may enter through the gates into the city.

and

Revelations 14: 12 Here is the patience of the saints; here are those who keep the commandments of God and the faith of Jesus.

And

Mathew 19: 17 So He said to him, “Why do you call Me good? No one is good but One, that is, God. But if you want to enter into life, keep the commandments.”

18 He said to Him, “Which ones?”

Jesus said, “‘You shall not murder,’ ‘You shall not commit adultery,’ ‘You shall not steal,’ ‘You shall not bear false witness,’ 19 ‘Honor your father and your mother,’ and, ‘You shall love your neighbor as yourself.’ ”

JLB777 · May 26, 2021

LoveGodsWord said:
WHAT DID JESUS AND THE APOSTLES TEACH ABOUT GOD’S LAW
(the scriptures below are no where near exhaustive)

Jesus taught the 10 commandments…..

1. Jesus kept God’s Law (10 commandments) and said the Law and the prophets would not pass away (Matt 5:17-18)
2. Jesus taught others to follow the 10 commandments (Mark 10:17-21)
3. Jesus taught that Love is the fulfilling (doing) of God’s Law (10 commandments Matt 22:36-40)
4. If we break God’s Law by following man-made traditions we are not following God (Matt 15:3-9)
5. Jesus says if we commit sin we are a servant of sin and he has come to free us from sin (John 8:32-36)
6. Jesus taught if you love God you will keep God’s Law and abide in His Love (John 14:15; 15:10
7. If anyone is breaking any of God’s commandments and teaching others to do so will be called least in the kingdom of heaven <least = lost> (Matt 5:19)
8. No one can obey God’s Law producing the fruit of obedience of ourselves and unless we abide in Jesus we can do nothing (John 15:4-10)

Paul affirms the Ten Commandments……

1. Paul teaches God's people keep the Sabbath Hebrews 4.
2. Paul tells gentiles that "what matters is KEEPING the Commandments of GOD" 1 Cor 7:19
3. Paul tells gentiles "it is not the HEARERS of the Law that are just before God but the DOERS of the Law will be justified... on the day when according to my GOSPEL God will judge all mankind" Rom 2:13-16
4. Paul asks that gentiles consider the doctrine of LAW "Do we then make void the LAW of God by our faith? God forbid! In fact we establish the Law of God" Rom 3:31
5. Paul tells ALL Christians that it is only the lost who will "not subject themselves to the Law of God neither indeed CAN they" Rom 8:6-8
6 Paul reaches all Christians under the NEW Covenant that God's LAW as known in Jer 31:31-33 is "written on the heart and mind" Heb 8:7-11
7. Paul tells all Christians that the OT text is to be used for Doctrine 2Tim 3:16
AND He never claims that "if I did not write it -- it is not scripture for us today" -- as one or two have imagined for us.
8. Paul tells all Christians that the 5th commandment is the "FIRST commandment with a promise" Eph 6:1-2 and is binding on all Christians.
9. God's Law (10 commandments) are holy, just and good (Rom 7:12)
10. God's Law gives us a knowledge of what sin is (Rom 3:20; 7:7)
11. The penalty of breaking God's Law without Jesus is death (Rom 6:23)
12. If we break God's Law we dishonor God (Rom 2:23)
13. If we sin we are "under the Law" and guilty before God (Rom 3:19)
14. We are saved by faith but our faith establishes the Law in us (Rom 3:31)
15. If we are saved by grace we should not break God's Law (Rom 6:1-7)
16. We should not break God's Law if we are under grace (Rom 6:15)
17. We are to serve the Law of God through the mind because that is where sin starts (Rom 6:17; 7:25; 8:4; 12:2)
18. It is God's Law that brings us to Jesus (Gal 3:24)
19. God's salvation frees us from sin so we can be obedient to God's Law and live a life of holiness (Rom 6:22)
20. We will be judged by God's Law and only those that are obedient will be justified because of their faith (Rom 2:4-13)
21. God's Law can only be obeyed through love and a changed heart which comes by faith in God's Word (Rom 2:21-29; 13:9-10; Heb 8:9-10)
22. If we break God's Law and are in unrepentant sin we will be lost and will received God's judgements (Heb 10:26-27)

John affirms the 10 commandments……

1. John says it is only by keeping God’s 10 commandments that we know that we know God (1 John 2:3)
2. If someone says that they know God and do not keep God’s 10 commandments they are lying and not telling the truth (1 John 2:4)
3. We should purify ourselves as Jesus is pure (1 John 3:3)
4. Sin is the breaking of God’s 10 commandments (1 John 3:4)
5. Whoever is abiding in Christ does not commit sin (1 John 3:6; John 15:4-10)
6. If you are in unrepentant sin you have not seen Jesus or know him (1 John 3:6)
7. John warns us that only those that are obedience to God’s Law are his true followers (1 John 3:7)
8. If someone is committing unrepentant sin they are following the devil and not God (1 John 3:7)
9. If you are born of God and abiding in him you will not commit sin (1 John 3:9; 1 John 3:6; John 15:4-10
10. It is the keeping of God’s commandments that is the difference between those that are following God and those that are not following God (1 John 3:10; 1 John 5:3)
11. It is only by Love through faith that we can keep God’s commandments (1 John 5:3-4)
12. God’s true believers in the end days will keep all of God’s commandments through faith in Jesus (Rev 14:12; 22:14)

James also affirms the 10 commandments…….

1. James says God’s Law (10 commandments) are a Royal Law (James 2:8)
2. If we break one of God’s commandments we a guilty before God as sinners breaking all of God’s Law and gave some examples of breaking God’s Law (James 2:9-11)
3. James says God’s Law is a law of liberty and freedom (James 2:12)
4. The 10 commandments (God’s Law) are the standard in the judgment (James 2:12)
5. If our faith does not have the fruit of obedience to God’s Law it is dead and not true faith (James 2:16-26)

Peter affirms the 10 commandments……..

1. Sanctification is to obedience to God’s Law (1 Pet 1:2)
2. We can only be changed from sin to obedience to God’s Law by the power of God and it will be revealed in the last days (1 Pet 1:5)
3. We should give up our sins to be holy because Jesus is holy (1 Pet 1:13-16)
4. Jesus is your example who did no sin (1 Pet 2:21-22)
5. Cease from sin and do not live in the flesh (1 Pet 4:1-3)
6. Judgement will begin at the house of God and sinners (those breaking God’s 10 commandments) will not be saved.
7. God has given us his precious promises and as we believe them God will grant us his divine power to live a life of Godliness (obedience to God’s Law; 2 Pet 1:2-4)
8. The Un-Godly (disobedient to God’s Law) will be like Sodom and Gomorrah (2 Pet 2:6)
9. If any turn away from God’s Law and are in unrepentant sin breaking any of God’10 commandments they will be lost (2 Pet 2:20-22)
10 God is not willing that any should perish but that everyone should come to repentance and turn away from sin to follow God’s 10 commandments because those that do not will receive the judgements of God (2 Pet 3:5-14)

What did Jesus and the Apostles teach about the Sabbath in the New Testament?

1. It is lawful to do good on the Sabbath (Matt 12:1-8; 10-12; 24:20; Mark 3:1-5; Luke 6:1-10; 13:14-16; 14:1-5; John 7:22-23; 9:14; Mark 1:21; Mark 6:2; Luke 4:16; 31; Luke 14:1; 23:56)
2. Jesus made the Sabbath for all mankind (Hebrews 1:2; John 1:1-3; 14; Ephesians 3:9; Colossians 1:16-17; Mark 2:27)
3. Jesus is Lord of the Sabbath (Mark 2:28)
4. If you do not believe and follow God you cannot enter His Sabbath rest (Hebrews 4)
5. It is one of God’s 10 commandments we break it we are guilty or breaking all (James 2:8-12)
6. Breaking it is sin (1 John 3:4)
7. God’s true followers keep it Holy as God commanded (Rev 14:12; Rev 22:14; Eze 20:20)
8. Jesus is our example and he kept the Sabbath (Matt 12:1-8; 10-12; 24:20; Mark 3:1-5; Luke 6:1-10; 13:14-16; 14:1-5; John 7:22-23; 9:14; Mark 1:21; Mark 6:2; Luke 4:16; 31; Luke 14:1; 23:56; John 2:6; Matt 16:24; 1 Cor 11:1; Eph 5:1-21; Pet 2:20-22)
9. The Apostle kept the Sabbath (Acts 13:14; 13:27; 13:44; 15:21; 16:13; 17:2; 18:4; Rev 1:10)

God’s Law in the NC is written on our hearts it is through love and it is love the fulfils God’s Law in us as we walk not after the flesh but after the spirit and is why Jesus says f you love me keep my commandments. (John 14:15; John 15:10). If we knowingly break one of God’s commandments we commit sin (1 John 3:4). This includes the 7th Day Sabbath which Jesus made for us and commands us to keep as a holy day.

In Christ Always!

Soory but all these scripture references teach us nothing.

There is not one single verse where Jesus gave specific instructions as to how to keep the Sabbath.

Not one.

Why?

For the priesthood being changed, of necessity there is also a change of the law. Hebrews 7:12

The law has been changed. We don’t operate by the law of Moses.

Our High Priest is Jesus Christ, and He is a High Priest according to the Melchizedek.

Therefore, if perfection were through the Levitical priesthood (for under it the people received the law), what further need was there that another priest should rise according to the order of Melchizedek, and not be called according to the order of Aaron? For the priesthood being changed, of necessity there is also a change of the law. Hebrews 7:11-12

And you, being dead in your trespasses and the uncircumcision of your flesh, He has made alive together with Him, having forgiven you all trespasses, having wiped out the handwriting of requirements that was against us, which was contrary to us. And He has taken it out of the way, having nailed it to the cross. Having disarmed principalities and powers, He made a public spectacle of them, triumphing over them in it.
So let no one judge you in food or in drink, or regarding a festival or a new moon or sabbaths, which are a shadow of things to come, but the substance is of Christ. Colossians 2:13-17

Sabbath is simply a day for man to rest; no rules, no regulations.

One person esteems one day above another; another esteems every day alike. Let each be fully convinced in his own mind. Romans 14:5

If you desire to do something special on Saturday then do it unto the Lord.

If you desire to go to Church on Saturday or Sunday, then it should be up to each one to be convince in his own mind.

Creating an organization around one verse from the Old Testament is not from Christ.

JLB

Leaf473 · May 26, 2021

SabbathBlessings said:
God made the distinction between His laws and the laws of Moses so no, I would not put them in the same category or on equal footing. Paul made the distinction as well. As did King Solomon. John did as well. I provided a rather detailed list of the differences. My suggestion would be to take a step back and playfully study these scriptures, because it's really important and you seem to be of the mindset that both set of laws ended at the cross and that is not the case. Wouldn't you want to know now that Jesus expects us to keep the Ten Commandments or wait until it's too late?

I think Jesus lumps them all together when he is talking to the guys on the way to Emmaus.

Do you follow what I'm saying there? If so then let's move on to one of the other people and Bible passages that you talked about.

JESUS and the APOSTLES OBEYED GOD'S LAW and the SABBATH!

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