Jesus and nonviolence

[Jesuscentered]

The idea of nonviolence is certainly countercultural (especially in America), but that doesn't mean it's not Biblical. I'd like to share what Jesus taught regarding nonviolence and make a Christian case for it, so here it goes...

Belief in nonviolence stems completely from Jesus' teachings (Contrary to popular belief... it wasn't from the "hippies". Although, I'm sure that many of them would love to believe that they are the catalyst for a pacifist movement). There are several verses in the Bible that point us in this direction.

First, (and really, I needn't go beyond this, but I will) Jesus tells us that He brings us a new commandment... to love our enemies as we love ourselves. But why? What has changed? Well, clearly several things change after his death, but that is a different discussion, so I will keep to the topic. So how then do we love our enemies? Well, Jesus tells us exactly how, and it's not easy. He tells us to turn the other cheek... but more importantly, he tells us right after that, "Do not resist an evil person." That is a HUGE statement to make and it is crystal clear. But somehow, that part of it usually gets left out of the story. He also tells us, "If he asks for your shirt, give him your coat also." I think a lot of Christians look at this and think, "Well... maybe in a perfect world." But Jesus certainly didn't live in a perfect world. What if He actually meant what He said? And where is our faith if we disregard it? Can we truly believe?

Second, when Pilate asks Jesus why He doesn't just release himself and take his throne (if he is king), Jesus replies, "This kingdom is not of this world. If it was, my disciples would fight for me." It was never Jesus' intention that we should hold power over others in order to defend Him (Matthew 20:25-28). In fact, Jesus tells us to do the exact opposite. We are called to be servants, not hold positions of power over people. People often say, "Then why did Jesus tell his disciples to buy swords?" The answer to this question is in the context of what is written in the Gospels. When they did buy swords, why were two swords enough? What did they do right after they bought the swords? Jesus knew he had to be arrested, and the swords were part of the plan to get arrested. And even if you don't believe that... then you at least have to believe that Jesus never intended his disciples to actually use the swords, because He tells Peter, "Don't even allow this... For those who live by the sword will die by the sword" when Peter tried to cut the guard's ear off trying to defend Jesus.

Third, Paul tells us that our battles are not physical, but spiritual instead. Why does he go through so much trouble to redefine what a Christian warrior looks like? He alters every aspect of what a warrior for Christ looks like and fundamentally is. And what is now our weapon, if not the Bible? Notice that the sword has been replaced.

Four, when Jesus' disciples wanted to burn the Samaritans alive for snubbing Jesus, what was Jesus' response to them? He rebuked them by saying, "You do not know what spirit you are of... for the Son of Man did not come to destroy the lives of men, but to save them."

Five, Jesus tells us not to fear what can be done to our body, but fear what can be done to our soul instead. Everything Jesus tells us to do requires faith and humility. It requires sacrifice and strength. Pacifism is NOT weakness. If anything, it takes more guts and strength of character to do what Jesus asks of us than anything else in this world. It goes against our human nature. And why does He ask it of us? The answer is simple... because we are to represent Him and what He did for in this world. It is one of the many ways we witness to the world. It is one of the many ways that we show our faith to Him. It's one of the many ways we sacrifice and put others first. It's one of the many ways we love Jesus and others.

If we truly desire to be Christian and to follow Christ, then we cannot simply put His teachings on a shelf somewhere and say, "Yeah, that would be nice in a perfect world... BUT..." We must be proactive and at least believe in and try to follow His commandments. Otherwise... who are we really following, and where is our faith? Blessed are the Peacemakers, for they shall inherit the Kingdom of God.

 

[ananda]

... I'd like to share what Jesus taught regarding nonviolence and make a Christian case for it ... Belief in nonviolence stems completely from Jesus' teachings

Ideas about non-violence did not originate from Jesus. There were others before Jesus that was by far, much stronger on the topic of non-violence - like the Buddha (who was said to have practiced what he preached, and didn't have a separate standard for himself as compared to his followers):

• "Not by harming life does one become noble. One is termed noble for being gentle to all living things." Dhp 270
  
• "All tremble at the rod, all are fearful of death. Drawing the parallel to yourself, neither kill nor get others to kill ... Whoever takes a rod to harm living beings desiring ease, when he himself is looking for ease, will meet with no ease after death." Dhp 129,131
• "And what is right resolve? Being resolved on renunciation, on freedom from ill will, on harmlessness: This is called right resolve." SN 45.8
• etc.

... Jesus tells us that He brings us a new commandment... to love our enemies as we love ourselves. .... He tells us to turn the other cheek... but more importantly, he tells us right after that, "Do not resist an evil person." .... What if He actually meant what He said? And where is our faith if we disregard it? Can we truly believe?... Jesus' disciples wanted to burn the Samaritans alive for snubbing Jesus, what was Jesus' response to them? He rebuked them by saying, "You do not know what spirit you are of... for the Son of Man did not come to destroy the lives of men, but to save them."... Pacifism is NOT weakness...we are to represent Him and what He did for in this world. It is one of the many ways we witness to the world ... We must be proactive and at least believe in and try to follow His commandments. Otherwise... who are we really following, and where is our faith?...

How do you explain verses like Luke 19:27? "But those mine enemies, which would not that I should reign over them, bring hither, and slay them before me."

If he "meant what he said", then shouldn't he practice exactly what he preached?

 

[Jesuscentered]

Ideas about non-violence did not originate from Jesus. There were others before Jesus that was by far, much stronger on the topic of non-violence - like the Buddha (who was said to have practiced what he preached, and didn't have a separate standard for himself as compared to his followers):

• "Not by harming life does one become noble. One is termed noble for being gentle to all living things." Dhp 270
  
• "All tremble at the rod, all are fearful of death. Drawing the parallel to yourself, neither kill nor get others to kill ... Whoever takes a rod to harm living beings desiring ease, when he himself is looking for ease, will meet with no ease after death." Dhp 129,131
• "And what is right resolve? Being resolved on renunciation, on freedom from ill will, on harmlessness: This is called right resolve." SN 45.8
• etc.

How do you explain verses like Luke 19:27? "But those mine enemies, which would not that I should reign over them, bring hither, and slay them before me."

If he "meant what he said", then shouldn't he practice exactly what he preached?

Luke 19:27 is part of a parable about those who squander what is given to them by God. He's not telling us to actually slay his enemies before him. He's telling us that those who squander what is given to them will need to answer for it on Judgement Day. Two completely different things. Matthew 5 is a direct commandment. It's kind of hard to get around "Do not resist an evil person."

 

[Sarah G]

I am a big fan of non-violence but I disagree with your statement:

Belief in nonviolence stems completely from Jesus' teachings

The revised Vedic scriptures around 500bc speak of ahimsa (non violence) and Buddha (Siddartha Gautama) also preached non-violence (probably based on the Vedas) around 500bc.


Religion Timeline - Ancient History Encyclopedia
Ahimsa - Wikipedia

Edit: Oop, someone else already posted about this whilst I was looking up references. Sorry that it is double.

 

[Jesuscentered]

I am a big fan of non-violence but I disagree with your statement:


The revised Vedic scriptures around 500bc speak of ahimsa (non violence) and Buddha (Siddartha Gautama) also preached non-violence (probably based on the Vedas) around 500bc.


Religion Timeline - Ancient History Encyclopedia
Ahimsa - Wikipedia

Edit: Oop, someone else already posted about this whilst I was looking up references. Sorry that it is double.

I get that. I guess I should have stated "the theology behind Christian non-violence stems from Jesus' teachings."

 

[Halbhh]

The idea of nonviolence is certainly countercultural (especially in America), but that doesn't mean it's not Biblical. I'd like to share what Jesus taught regarding nonviolence and make a Christian case for it, so here it goes...

Belief in nonviolence stems completely from Jesus' teachings (Contrary to popular belief... it wasn't from the "hippies". Although, I'm sure that many of them would love to believe that they are the catalyst for a pacifist movement). There are several verses in the Bible that point us in this direction.

First, (and really, I needn't go beyond this, but I will) Jesus tells us that He brings us a new commandment... to love our enemies as we love ourselves. But why? What has changed? Well, clearly several things change after his death, but that is a different discussion, so I will keep to the topic. So how then do we love our enemies? Well, Jesus tells us exactly how, and it's not easy. He tells us to turn the other cheek... but more importantly, he tells us right after that, "Do not resist an evil person." That is a HUGE statement to make and it is crystal clear. But somehow, that part of it usually gets left out of the story. He also tells us, "If he asks for your shirt, give him your coat also." I think a lot of Christians look at this and think, "Well... maybe in a perfect world." But Jesus certainly didn't live in a perfect world. What if He actually meant what He said? And where is our faith if we disregard it? Can we truly believe?

Second, when Pilate asks Jesus why He doesn't just release himself and take his throne (if he is king), Jesus replies, "This kingdom is not of this world. If it was, my disciples would fight for me." It was never Jesus' intention that we should hold power over others in order to defend Him (Matthew 20:25-28). In fact, Jesus tells us to do the exact opposite. We are called to be servants, not hold positions of power over people. People often say, "Then why did Jesus tell his disciples to buy swords?" The answer to this question is in the context of what is written in the Gospels. When they did buy swords, why were two swords enough? What did they do right after they bought the swords? Jesus knew he had to be arrested, and the swords were part of the plan to get arrested. And even if you don't believe that... then you at least have to believe that Jesus never intended his disciples to actually use the swords, because He tells Peter, "Don't even allow this... For those who live by the sword will die by the sword" when Peter tried to cut the guard's ear off trying to defend Jesus.

Third, Paul tells us that our battles are not physical, but spiritual instead. Why does he go through so much trouble to redefine what a Christian warrior looks like? He alters every aspect of what a warrior for Christ looks like and fundamentally is. And what is now our weapon, if not the Bible? Notice that the sword has been replaced.

Four, when Jesus' disciples wanted to burn the Samaritans alive for snubbing Jesus, what was Jesus' response to them? He rebuked them by saying, "You do not know what spirit you are of... for the Son of Man did not come to destroy the lives of men, but to save them."

Five, Jesus tells us not to fear what can be done to our body, but fear what can be done to our soul instead. Everything Jesus tells us to do requires faith and humility. It requires sacrifice and strength. Pacifism is NOT weakness. If anything, it takes more guts and strength of character to do what Jesus asks of us than anything else in this world. It goes against our human nature. And why does He ask it of us? The answer is simple... because we are to represent Him and what He did for in this world. It is one of the many ways we witness to the world. It is one of the many ways that we show our faith to Him. It's one of the many ways we sacrifice and put others first. It's one of the many ways we love Jesus and others.

If we truly desire to be Christian and to follow Christ, then we cannot simply put His teachings on a shelf somewhere and say, "Yeah, that would be nice in a perfect world... BUT..." We must be proactive and at least believe in and try to follow His commandments. Otherwise... who are we really following, and where is our faith? Blessed are the Peacemakers, for they shall inherit the Kingdom of God.

What an invaluable post here. It's very good to be reminded of that wording we can easily forget, not to resist an evil person! I have often given real resistance against an evil person in life, here and there, I confess. That was wrong. I will repent.

Please pray for me that I am strengthened to keep His command on this, to not fight a person intentionally doing wrong, but to instead show Christ in my words, deeds and thoughts in such moments, always.

(About the two swords -- Just in case it is useful, let me add about the (two) swords Christ asked the disciples to have before being arrested, it was in order to fulfill prophecy that He "would be numbered among the transgressors". Of course, two swords would never be enough to carry on an actual rebellion against Rome, but it would be enough to be numbered among the transgressors, allowing a pretext with which to aid in painting a false picture against Him.)

I'm always very encouraged when anyone confesses the words of Christ, instead of putting aside His words!

Hallelujah!

 

[Sarah G]

I get that. I guess I should have stated "the theology behind Christian non-violence stems from Jesus' teachings."

Oh yes, now that you say that I can also read it in that way! It is a Christian forum after all so yes Christian was implied in that sense. I drink too much coffee, tbh.

 

[ananda]

Luke 19:27 is part of a parable about those who squander what is given to them by God. He's not telling us to actually slay his enemies before him. He's telling us that those who squander what is given to them will need to answer for it on Judgement Day. Two completely different things. Matthew 5 is a direct commandment. It's kind of hard to get around "Do not resist an evil person."

How will those who "squander what is given them" have to answer to Jesus, according to Luke 19:27?

Yes, I understand that Matthew 5 is a different commandment, to which I say: doesn't this give evidence that he commands for his disciples to do differently than what he himself does?

 

[ExodusMe]

I admire the thought of the OP, but I just don't think if my wife or children was having some violence done to them that God doesn't want me to defend them physically.

The thought is just too abstract and naive from reality.

Were American Christians wrong for defending the Jews of the Nazi Holocaust in WWII according to the OP?

Can you clarify whether 'non-violence' includes defending yourself physically? It sounds like you are taking it that way also as you say to turn the other cheek, etc..

 

[Halbhh]

Ideas about non-violence did not originate from Jesus. There were others before Jesus that was by far, much stronger on the topic of non-violence - like the Buddha (who was said to have practiced what he preached, and didn't have a separate standard for himself as compared to his followers):

• "Not by harming life does one become noble. One is termed noble for being gentle to all living things." Dhp 270
  
• "All tremble at the rod, all are fearful of death. Drawing the parallel to yourself, neither kill nor get others to kill ... Whoever takes a rod to harm living beings desiring ease, when he himself is looking for ease, will meet with no ease after death." Dhp 129,131
• "And what is right resolve? Being resolved on renunciation, on freedom from ill will, on harmlessness: This is called right resolve." SN 45.8
• etc.

How do you explain verses like Luke 19:27? "But those mine enemies, which would not that I should reign over them, bring hither, and slay them before me."

If he "meant what he said", then shouldn't he practice exactly what he preached?

Please let me help you, by showing you that entire quote for Luke 19:27, allowing you to see the meaning --

Notice this is a Parable -- a story told as an analogy, so then you have a chance to try to learn what the analogy is.

The Parable of the Ten Minas

11 While they were listening to this, he went on to tell them a parable, because he was near Jerusalem and the people thought that the kingdom of God was going to appear at once. 12 He said: “A man of noble birth went to a distant country to have himself appointed king and then to return. 13 So he called ten of his servants and gave them ten minas. ‘Put this money to work,’ he said, ‘until I come back.’

14 “But his subjects hated him and sent a delegation after him to say, ‘We don’t want this man to be our king.’

15 “He was made king, however, and returned home. Then he sent for the servants to whom he had given the money, in order to find out what they had gained with it.

16 “The first one came and said, ‘Sir, your mina has earned ten more.’

17 “ ‘Well done, my good servant!’ his master replied. ‘Because you have been trustworthy in a very small matter, take charge of ten cities.’

18 “The second came and said, ‘Sir, your mina has earned five more.’

19 “His master answered, ‘You take charge of five cities.’

20 “Then another servant came and said, ‘Sir, here is your mina; I have kept it laid away in a piece of cloth. 21 I was afraid of you, because you are a hard man. You take out what you did not put in and reap what you did not sow.’

22 “His master replied, ‘I will judge you by your own words, you wicked servant! You knew, did you, that I am a hard man, taking out what I did not put in, and reaping what I did not sow? 23 Why then didn’t you put my money on deposit, so that when I came back, I could have collected it with interest?’

24 “Then he said to those standing by, ‘Take his mina away from him and give it to the one who has ten minas.’

25 “ ‘Sir,’ they said, ‘he already has ten!’

26 “He replied, ‘I tell you that to everyone who has, more will be given, but as for the one who has nothing, even what they have will be taken away. 27 But those enemies of mine who did not want me to be king over them—bring them here and kill them in front of me.’ ”

------------

As one is reading through the gospel of Luke from the beginning, then you have the full picture, all the context, and can then recognize what is being referred to.

Christ's Kingdom is not to be of the world, merely an Earthly rule, but is instead in the heart of people.

The distant country is Heaven.

Some though would not want to recognize or accept His rule over them, with His laws, these laws --

"Love your neighbor as yourself."
"Forgive....seventy times seven times."
"Love your enemies"
"So in everything, do to others as you would have them do to you."

Some people do not want such a rule.

They will then suffer the natural fate of refusing to "love your neighbor as yourself", which is to fail to gain Life in the Kingdom, and instead they will ultimately die the final death, which is forever.

Because they refused "love your neighbor as yourself", and all His Words. Refused to be ruled by Him, that is by His Words.

Wonderfully, He aids us to keep His words, to do them -- it's a path, and sometimes we stumble and need help. When we believe in Him, risen, the very Son of God, and come to Him as our redeemer, we are altered, born anew, and begin on His path. As we rely on Him, learning His Words, we are changed, and as we do things He said, we are changed, and as we do communion with Him, we are changed. Over time we are made into better people, and progress on His path.

 

[Desk trauma]

If we truly desire to be Christian and to follow Christ, then we cannot simply put His teachings on a shelf somewhere and say, "Yeah, that would be nice in a perfect world... BUT...

Yes, but, how does a country operate using these ideas?

 

[Jesuscentered]

How will those who "squander what is given them" have to answer to Jesus, according to Luke 19:27?

Yes, I understand that Matthew 5 is a different commandment, to which I say: doesn't this give evidence that he commands for his disciples to do differently than what he himself does?

I think you've touched on something. What God/Jesus does and what He calls Christians to do are two completely different things. We are in a time in which Jesus calls us (Christians) to represent Him to the world... to draw others to Him. Everyone is called. Even the murderer, the thief, the rapist, the Muslim, the ____________ (fill in the blank). We are not to pass judgment. That is Jesus' job. And He tells us how he will judge us in Matthew 25. Our job as Christians is to show love to the world... to serve others. We are not called to choose who does or who does not deserve (anything). That is God's job. Notice that even in the parable, Jesus makes the decisions, not man. The Bible says there is a time for everything. Now is the time for Christians witness to the world with love. Until Jesus returns, that is our calling.

 

[ananda]

Please let me help you, by showing you that entire quote for Luke 19:27, allowing you to see the meaning -- Notice this is a Parable -- a story told as an analogy, so then you have a chance to try to learn what the analogy is..... Some people do not want such a rule. They will then suffer the natural fate of refusing to "love your neighbor as yourself", which is to fail to gain Life in the Kingdom, and instead they will ultimately die the final death, which is forever. Because they refused "love your neighbor as yourself", and refused to be ruled by Him, that is by His Words.

Yes, I am aware of its context. The question is, what exactly is the specific fate indicated for those who "would not that Jesus should reign over them", according to Luke 19:27 (which you failed to quote)?

 

[ananda]

I think you've touched on something. What God/Jesus does and what He calls Christians to do are two completely different things. We are in a time in which Jesus calls us (Christians) to represent Him to the world... to draw others to Him. Everyone is called. Even the murderer, the thief, the rapist, the Muslim, the ____________ (fill in the blank). We are not to pass judgment. That is Jesus' job. And He tells us how he will judge us in Matthew 25. Our job as Christians is to show love to the world... to serve others. We are not called to choose who does or who does not deserve (anything). That is God's job. Notice that even in the parable, Jesus makes the decisions, not man. The Bible says there is a time for everything. Now is the time for Christians witness to the world with love. Until Jesus returns, that is our calling.

Then, would you agree that it can be said that Jesus himself is not non-violent, according to the common NT?

 

[Halbhh]

Yes, I am aware of its context. The question is, what exactly is the specific fate indicated for those who "would not that Jesus should reign over them", according to Luke 19:27 (which you failed to quote)?

Verse 27 is surely in that quote, as it's a quote of the entire parable, and not only a part.

Those that refuse Him, refuse "love one another" -- they will all die the final death, the "second death". Please know I expect a very great many who have not yet learned more of what Jesus said to in time learn more of what He said, and be saved from that second death.

 

[Jesuscentered]

I admire the thought of the OP, but I just don't think if my wife or children was having some violence done to them that God doesn't want me to defend them physically.

The thought is just too abstract and naive from reality.

Were American Christians wrong for defending the Jews of the Nazi Holocaust in WWII according to the OP?

Can you clarify whether 'non-violence' includes defending yourself physically? It sounds like you are taking it that way also as you say to turn the other cheek, etc..

To answer your question, yes... it includes defending yourself physically.

Your response is the most common response to this question. People have conflict when it comes to their family (understandably). None of us knows exactly how we will react in this type of situation. However, that doesn't change what Jesus taught. The question becomes, "Do we have faith enough to believe what Jesus taught, or will we simply say it isn't practical?" Remember... Jesus and his followers didn't have it easy. Yet He still taught nonviolence. There's a reason why He taught it.

 

[ananda]

Verse 27 is surely in that quote, as it's the entire parable, and not only a part.

Yes, I was merely pointing you that you did not quote it in your earlier post.

Those that refuse Him, refuse "love one another" -- they will all die the final death, the "second death". Please know I expect a very great many who have not yet learned more of what Jesus said to in time learn more of what He said, and be saved from that second death.

That death includes being slain before Jesus according to his commandment, correct?

 

[Halbhh]

Yes, I was merely pointing you that you did not quote it in your earlier post.

That death includes being slain before Jesus according to his commandment, correct?

I think you must have confused me with another person there. Merely read the posts to see.

About being "slain" as in the parable, the analogy is pointing to the Day of Judgement, when those who refused the Way of Life, Jesus's teachings, will then be "cast into the outer darkness", or another metaphor, "cast into the lake of fire". And other metaphors, all pointing to the single one thing -- the "second death", of the soul/spirit, of the person, forever. Final and total death, irreversible, permanent.

The outcome of refusing Love as their way of life, of refusing God Himself. As you would learn reading more, God is Love.

Put into the most simple words, refusing Love one will die forever.

 

[Jesuscentered]

Yes, but, how does a country operate using these ideas?

Thank you for asking this question, because I did not mention government too much in my response, but it's a huge part of understanding God's Kingdom vs. earthly kingdoms.

Jesus did not call us to rule over others. What government do or do not do is not supposed to be our concern (Matthew 20:25-28). It's understandable that a government will try to protect itself. But as Christians, we are called to follow Jesus, not governments. If I'm not willing to fight against an enemy because Jesus tells me to not fight against them, then why would I fight for any earthly government? We are supposed to be separate from this world. We cannot get ourselves caught up in earthly conflicts. That's not our calling. That's not how we bring people to Jesus. We cannot force people to love God. They need to make that choice. And Romans 13 is a warning to Christians that governments are ordained by God to prevent keep the peace, but no where does he tell us (Christians) to be part of governments. He simply warns us to follow earthly laws.

 

[ananda]

I think you must have confused me with another person there. Merely read the posts to see.

The post I was referring to was this one, where you failed to quote Luke 19:27. You quoted 11-26, and left out 27.

About being "slain" as in the parable, the analogy is pointing to the Day of Judgement, when those who refused the Way of Life, Jesus's teachings, will then be "cast into the outer darkness", or another metaphor, "cast into the lake of fire". And other metaphors, all pointing to the single one thing -- the "second death", of the soul/spirit, of the person, forever. Final and total death, irreversible, permanent.

The outcome of refusing Love as their way of life, of refusing God Himself. As you would learn reading more, God is Love.

Put into the most simple words, refusing Love one will die forever.

Whether "slain", "cast into the lake of fire", etc. would you not agree that this is not non-violent behavior?