Jesus and mohamid

[LittleLambofJesus]

005.075 Christ the son of Mary was no more than an apostle; many were the apostles that passed away before him. His mother was a woman of truth. They had both to eat their (daily) food. See how God doth make His signs clear to them; yet see in what ways they are deluded away from the truth!

[SIZE=+2]Revelation 2:18 `And to the messenger of the assembly of Thyatira write: These things saith the Son of God, who is having his eyes as a flame of fire, and his feet like to fine brass;[/SIZE]

 

[arunma]

When did I say it has superior poetry? It might be true, but I certainly would not ram it down non-Muslim throats.

But I will say this. It has superior logic. It explains the logic for the existence of God and also the logical nature of God (Absolute Unity)

By my judgment, the Pauline epistles alone utilize more accurate logic than the Quran. I'll give you this: Muslims do a great job of constructing logical explanations and interpretations of the Quran. But the problem is that most of these interpretations do not logically follow from the text of the Quran. For a great example of this, please see the thread in this forum which claims that the Quran accurately predicts the speed of light.

The Quran asks us to think first before committing to blind faith. And that is it's miracle.

The Bible asks no less. So why should we not consider the Bible miraculous?

 

[benmaarof]

By my judgment, the Pauline epistles alone utilize more accurate logic than the Quran. I'll give you this: Muslims do a great job of constructing logical explanations and interpretations of the Quran.

The Bible asks no less. So why should we not consider the Bible miraculous?

I have given some examples of logic from the Quran that trumps the so-called "logic" of Paul's. How about you do the same thing. Show it, don't just say it

But the problem is that most of these interpretations do not logically follow from the text of the Quran. For a great example of this, please see the thread in this forum which claims that the Quran accurately predicts the speed of light.

I don't really subscribe much to what that fellow Muslim was implying because it did not come from the Prophet.

 

[arunma]

I have given some examples of logic from the Quran that trumps the so-called "logic" of Paul's. How about you do the same thing. Show it, don't just say it

Much of the book of Romans utilizes logic to demonstrate the doctrine of justification by faith. For example, Paul argues that God is not a tribal deity, but is God of the entire world:

Or is God the God of Jews only? Is he not the God of Gentiles also? Yes, of Gentiles also, since God is one. He will justify the circumcised by faith and the uncircumcised through faith. Do we then overthrow the law by this faith? By no means! On the contrary, we uphold the law. (Romans 3:29-31)
​

Again, in my judgment, the logic of the Apostle Paul is sound, while the logic of Mohammad, who is falsely called a prophet, is not sound.

I don't really subscribe much to what that fellow Muslim was implying because it did not come from the Prophet.

Are you saying that you don't believe in the supposed "scientific miracles" of the Quran?

 

[MercuryAndy]

Why does everyone have to lie why cant you just tell the truth before people die.

 

[Abdurrahim]

The greatest miracle of Islam is the Holy Quran.



Prophet Muhammad pbuh has performed many miracles by permition of Allah Allmighty in his lifetime.

Most prophets in the history are given miracles and signs by one and only G-d Allmighty.

http://www.risale-inur.com.tr/rnk/eng/letters/19letter.html

The Nineteenth Letter

THE MIRACLES OF MUHAMMED (PBUH)

This treatise describes more than three hundred miracles. And as it describes the Prophethood of Muhammed (PBUH), itself a miracle, so is it itself a wonder in three or four respects, proceeding from the miracle of his prophethood.

The First: Although it is more than a hundred pages long, and is based on traditions and narrations, it was written in an unusual fashion - in the mountains and the countryside, completely from memory, and without referring to any book. It was completed, moreover, in a few days by working two or three hours every day, or a total of twelve hours.

The Second: Despite its prolixity, this work did not cause tedium to its writer, nor does it lack a pleasant fluency for the reader. In fact, it aroused such ardor even in my apathetic scribes that in these hard and distressing times, as many as seventy copies were handwritten in this neighborhood within a single year[*]. Those aware of this property of the treatise concluded that this must be a wonder deriving from the miraculousness of his messengership, peace, and blessings be upon him.

The Third: Before any tawafuk had occurred to us, in the copies of this treatise written by nine scribes who did not see each other while writing and who were inexperienced and were unaware of what tawafuk[**] means the words referring to the gracious Messenger were unintentionally arranged beneath one another throughout the whole treatise. This was the same for the words referring to the Qur'an in the fifth part. Anyone who is fair to the slightest degree will not consider this tawafuk a mere coincidence. In fact, whoever observed this tawafuk definitely concluded that it was a wondrous sign and a marvel derived from the miraculousness of Muhammad (ASW).

The Essentials explained at the beginning of this treatise have extreme importance. As for the narrations related, they are accepted as authentic by the authorities on narrations, and they report the most established fact of the messengership of Muhammad (ASW). Now to enumerate the merits of this treatise, another treatise of the same length as this one would be needed; we therefore invite those who desire to discover its merits to read it, if only once. A Reminder: In this work, I have related many narrations, although I have no books on narrations to refer to. Should there be any errors in the wording of the narrations, I request that they either be corrected, or be considered as paraphrases of narration. For, according to the prevailing opinion, "the paraphrase of narrations is permissible," in which case the narrator puts the meaning of the narration into his own words. This being the case, narrations with possible errors of wording should be regarded as paraphrases.
Said Nursi.

you can read the rest here

 

[benmaarof]

Much of the book of Romans utilizes logic to demonstrate the doctrine of justification by faith. For example, Paul argues that God is not a tribal deity, but is God of the entire world:

Or is God the God of Jews only? Is he not the God of Gentiles also? Yes, of Gentiles also, since God is one. He will justify the circumcised by faith and the uncircumcised through faith. Do we then overthrow the law by this faith? By no means! On the contrary, we uphold the law. (Romans 3:29-31)​

Again, in my judgment, the logic of the Apostle Paul is sound, while the logic of Mohammad, who is falsely called a prophet, is not sound.

Obviously, God is God of everyone. That is logical. This has never been a bone of contention between our two faiths.

But what both of our faiths has always been in disagreement was the nature and purpose of Jesus,. Am I right?

Paul seems to be contradicting Jesus. Obviously God is God of everyone. But Jesus was only a prophet sent to the Jews.

Didn't Jesus according to the Bible says;
"But he answered and said, I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel." (Matthew, 15:24)

"These twelve Jesus sent forth, and commanded them, saying, Go not into the way of the Gentiles, and into any city of the Samaritans enter ye not: But go rather to the lost sheep of the house of Israel." (Matthew, 10:5-6)

And he (Jesus) shall reign over THE HOUSE OF JACOB forever; and of his kingdom there shall be no end." (Luke, 1:33)

"The king of the Jews" (Matthew, 2:2),

"The king ofIsrael" (John, 1:49; 12:13)

And please enlighten us Muslims, what is the logic of the Prophet Muhammad on the nature of God and Jesus that is not logical, rational and reasonable?

Are you saying that you don't believe in the supposed "scientific miracles" of the Quran?

"Scientific miracles" in the Quran? More like "scientific facts"!

I never did say that I did not believe in the scintific facts of the Quran. What I'm saying was that even though what my fellow Muslim claimed to be true about the speed of light. It could be a coincidence. Even though I might or might not believe what he's saying, it's not necessary to believe it because the Prophet Muhammad did not taught us about it. So, it's irrelevant. What the Prophet taught us and what's in the Quran is enough a guide to our faith.

 

[ALRAJY]

SaLam ALL,

Why did jesus do many more miricles than mohamid?

Or, do Miracles makes One a Prophet ?

As for muhamud I believe him to be merely delusional.

(ADH-DHARIYAT 51:52) "Similarly, no messenger came to the Peoples before them, but they said (Of him) in Like manner, [A sorcerer, Or One possessed] ! Is this the legacy they have transmitted, One to another ? Nay, they are themselves a people transgressing beyond Bounds. Then turn your back upon them For you are not to Blame. And continue to remind, For surely the reminder profits the believers"

And there is no way the Qu'ran could have been sent down from God.. Just look at these versus..

6:104, 6:114, 37:164-6, 51:50, 84:16

Haven't you Checked the "Annoited Bible Section" ? It is Hilarious

You say that It is Superior poetry, but unless you can provide an objective benchmark For great poetry, this claim is useless to us.

(Al-Haaqqa 69:40) "Most surely, It is the Word brought by an Honored Messenger. It is not the word Of a poet: Little It is ye believe"


Kind Regards

 

[mnbvcxz87]

Why does everyone have to lie why cant you just tell the truth before people die.

I don't believe people of modern times are lieing, but they are believing in lies. The root of judaism islam and christianity is the same, lies. They all make claims of speaking to god, performing miracles, etc. None of them are true, but what they do is offer people an easy access to 'heaven' after they die.

Human mortality is a scary thing and it's comforting to think that you will live on in a metaphysical utopia when you die. That is the simple reason for religion's success. And there are too many lies in the world, too much manipulation.

Instead of looking to religion my advice is look to people who didn't claim to be gods or prophets, but just tried to teach a high code of ethics in order to improve the world.

To start, there is muhatma ghandi. If you like what he says I can give you more names.

 

[Arthra]

I don't believe people of modern times are lieing, but they are believing in lies. The root of judaism islam and christianity is the same, lies. They all make claims of speaking to god, performing miracles, etc. None of them are true, but what they do is offer people an easy access to 'heaven' after they die.

Human mortality is a scary thing and it's comforting to think that you will live on in a metaphysical utopia when you die. That is the simple reason for religion's success. And there are too many lies in the world, too much manipulation.

Instead of looking to religion my advice is look to people who didn't claim to be gods or prophets, but just tried to teach a high code of ethics in order to improve the world.

To start, there is muhatma ghandi. If you like what he says I can give you more names.

I think you are entitled to believe religions are based on lies if you wish...

But would Gandhi himself agree with your statement:

"The root of judaism islam and christianity is the same, lies."

I don't think so.

As one writer has:

"Gandhi also advocated his views on Islam, another great world religion. Islam is a religion of strict monotheism and rigorous ethical discipline. Gandhi had a very high esteem for this religion and regarded it as a religion of peace, love, kindness and brotherhood of all men."

And from Gandhi himself:

"Is there one God for the Mussalmans and another for the Hindus, Parsis, and Christians? No, there is only one omnipresent God. He is named variously, and we remember him by the name which is most familiar to us."


Source:

http://www.bu.edu/wcp/Papers/Comp/CompBaru.htm

In friendship,

- Art

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

I never did say that I did not believe in the scintific facts of the Quran. What I'm saying was that even though what my fellow Muslim claimed to be true about the speed of light. It could be a coincidence. Even though I might or might not believe what he's saying, it's not necessary to believe it because the Prophet Muhammad did not taught us about it. So, it's irrelevant. What the Prophet taught us and what's in the Quran is enough a guide to our faith.

Well, we are both awaiting the "End of the Age, but my view of that is quite different than Muhammad's view of it.

(Young) Matthew 13:49 so shall it be in the full end [ sun-teleia] of the age, the messengers shall come forth and separate the evil out of the midst of the righteous,

John 19:30 So when Jesus had received the sour wine, He said, "It is finished!" And bowing His head, He gave up His spirit.

reve 14:19 So the angel thrust his sickle into the earth and gathered the vine of the land, and threw [it] into the great winepress of the wrath of God. 20 And the winepress was trampled outside the city, and blood came out of the winepress, up to the horses' bridles, for one thousand six hundred furlongs.

 

[mnbvcxz87]

Arth, I mean that ghandi didn't claim to be a prophet or god or son of god, he just talked about morals and tried to influence people in a positive way.

 

[peaceful soul]

When did I say it has superior poetry? It might be true, but I certainly would not ram it down non-Muslim throats.

But I will say this. It has superior logic. It explains the logic for the existence of God and also the logical nature of God (Absolute Unity)

When did I say it has superior poetry? It might be true, but I certainly would not ram it down non-Muslim throats.

But I will say this. It has superior logic. It explains the logic for the existence of God and also the logical nature of God (Absolute Unity)

There is logic that is counter to what you believe and seems just as plausible. Does that make logic = truth?


Exactly what is superior logic?

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

Arth, I mean that ghandi didn't claim to be a prophet or god or son of god, he just talked about morals and tried to influence people in a positive way.

The LORD Himself proclaimed Jesus as His "Son. The LORD never proclaimed that about Muhamammad I don't think.

If the Muslims are going to try and interpret the NT/NC of our Bible they need to study the OT/OC of the Bible.

http://www.newjerusalemcommunity.net/?c=53&a=1737

Psalms 110:1 A Psalm of David. Y@hovah said to my Lord [ 0113 'adown], "Sit at My right hand, Till I make Your enemies Your footstool."

Mark 9:7 And became a cloud overshadowing to them, and became a Voice out of the cloud, `This is the Son of Me/Y@hovah--the Beloved, be ye hearing Him !;

 

[benmaarof]

There is logic that is counter to what you believe and seems just as plausible. Does that make logic = truth?


Exactly what is superior logic?

Logic equal truth.

Is it logical for God to begotten a Son? Shouldn't God be unique? Shouldn't He as the Supreme Creator be nothing like any of His creations?

Jesus was born of a virgin. Why shouldn't it be logical for God to make him exists like Adam was made to exist.? And Adam does not even have a mother. God commands "Be!" and "PRESTO!" there existed Adam and Jesus.

Is it logical for us to sin for something that we have not done?

 

[Liberate]

Why does everyone have to lie why cant you just tell the truth before people die.

Imagine a neo nazi sincerely believing that the jews are the opium of the West, and should be exterminated at all costs, imagine if he also believed homosexuals and all non whites deserve to be exterminated. Imagine this neo nazi living within the midst of jews, outnumbered by jews, do you think he would be vociferous in what he believes? Or would he downplay what he sincerely believes inorder not to cause any problems for himself, and for his family?

There are two faces of islam, the 'moderate' view when in a minority, and lying to ignorant individuals, and the real implementation of islam, that incorporates the Medina ayats when in a majority (where it commands jihad to be fought against unbelievers whether they be people of the book), where gays are executed, apostates are killed, and first time thieves have their limbs decapitated, I am certain if I were to ask many westernized muslims what are to be done to homosexuals, thieves, and apostates, I suspect they will give me you the round around that there are other views, all the while trying to balance western sensitivities, to make islam seem mild to the West, yet islam says it is ok to tell lies, for all we know, this 'tolerant', 'moderate' personal exegesis (which I have stated, and shown by islamic jurisprudence several times contradicts islam) is simply to justify westernized muslim's following their own desire's or to avoid washing a dirty theological doctrine infront of infidels, this is the problem with western muslims, despite their 'moderate' views, most of these moderate views are not shown within closed doors, a lot of muslims feel no shame espousing this two facedness in front of westerners, simply because the religion says it is ok to lie.

 

[benmaarof]

Imagine a neo nazi sincerely believing that the jews are the opium of the West, and should be exterminated at all costs, imagine if he also believed homosexuals and all non whites deserve to be exterminated. Imagine this neo nazi living within the midst of jews, outnumbered by jews, do you think he would be vociferous in what he believes? Or would he downplay what he sincerely believes inorder not to cause any problems for himself, and for his family?

There are two faces of islam, the 'moderate' view when in a minority, and lying to ignorant individuals, and the real implementation of islam, that incorporates the Medina ayats when in a majority (where it commands jihad to be fought against unbelievers whether they be people of the book), where gays are executed, apostates are killed, and first time thieves have their limbs decapitated, I am certain if I were to ask many westernized muslims what are to be done to homosexuals, thieves, and apostates, I suspect they will give me you the round around that there are other views, all the while trying to balance western sensitivities, to make islam seem mild to the West, yet islam says it is ok to tell lies, for all we know, this 'tolerant', 'moderate' personal exegesis (which I have stated, and shown by islamic jurisprudence several times contradicts islam) is simply to justify westernized muslim's following their own desire's or to avoid washing a dirty theological doctrine infront of infidels, this is the problem with western muslims, despite their 'moderate' views, most of these moderate views are not shown within closed doors, a lot of muslims feel no shame espousing this two facedness in front of westerners, simply because the religion says it is ok to lie.

Does the Bible urge violence against the Jews?

Christians have been trying to eradicate the Jews for centuries.

-In 313 A.D., the Edict of Mila by Constantine outlawed synagogues, and in 315 another edict allowed the burning of Jews if convicted of breaking the law.

-During the 1st Crusade,in the summer of 1096, an undisciplined rabble of 200,000 peasants and artisans had assembled in France. However, there were no Muslims near at hand, so the champions of the cross turned their attention to the Jews. They were given the option of baptism or death. Many chose to be martyred.

- In Mayence, The Archbishop of France,invited 1,300 Jews into his palace for refuge. This proved to be an invitation to slaughter, for under his supervision, they were all killed, and he even shared in the spoils confiscated from the corpses.

-When the Crusaders finally arrived in Jerusalem, they were 600,000 strong. They besieged the city and on July 15, 1099 broke through the walls. They killed the Muslims in the city and herded the Jews into the synagogue. Crusaders with shields decorated with large crosses placed wood around the synagogue and burned alive all inside as they sang, "Christ, We Adore Thee!".

-During the Spanish Inquisition tens of thousands of Jews had been forced to be baptized. Either that or death. Again, many chose death. Since no blood was allowed to be shed, they were burned alive. Over 350,000 Jews suffered punishment.

-Catholics weren't the only culprits. Martin Luther printed two pamphlets: in 1542, On the Jews and Their Lies, and in 1543, On The Shem Hamephoras (The Ineffable Name). These two pamphlets contain some of the most abhorrent and vile language were written against the Jewish people.

-When the people of Europe were dying from the Black Death Bubonic Plague, the Jews were blamed for poisoning the wells. Many were killed or driven out of their homes.

-From 1881 to1921 there was a series of pogroms in Russia. The pogroms were a series of attacks, accompanied by destruction, the looting of property, murder, and rape, perpetrated by the Christian populations of Russia against the Jews.

-During WW2, the Germans weren't the only Christians sending Jews to the concentration camps. Many Christian Dutch, Danes, Scandinavian, Belgians and French people willingly act as collaborators in the Holocaust.

Ant that just the Jews. If I were to include other natives of the Americas, Asia, Africa and the Pacific Islands the list would be much longer.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

Christians have been trying to eradicate the Jews for centuries.

They probably took what Jesus said here a little to "literally" and probably thought Jesus was saying ALL Jews were "serpents".

Matt 23:32 "Fill up, then, the measure of your fathers' [guilt.] 33 "Serpents, brood of vipers! How can you escape the condemnation of the gehenna?

Ezkeiel 39:12 "For seven months the house of Israel will be burying Them, in order to Cleanse/purify the land. 13 "Indeed all the people of the land will be burying, and they will gain renown for it on the day that I am glorified," says the 'Adonay Y@hovih.

Mark 9:7 And became a cloud overshadowing to them, and became a Voice out of the cloud, `This is the Son of Me/Y@hovah--the Beloved, be ye hearing Him !;

 

[TrevorKamal]

Miracles are not what make them great. If you think they are you should reevaluate what the basis of your faith is.

 

[ummuIsa]

Why did jesus do many more miricles than mohamid?

I have read all the replies, some really off topic, but I truly believe the answer is NOBODY knows this except the Creator Himself. He did not tell us why so we couldn't possibly know.