Jesus and I have the same adaptation: are we more evolved, or less?

[Gottservant]

Hi there,

Suppose something for a minute: Jesus and I have the same adaptation, are we more evolved or less?

What would give Him praise?

Will my copying His adaptation, mean that I am as free from death as He is?

Imagine everyone has Jesus' adaptation: can decay change us?

 

[Bungle_Bear]

Hi there,

Suppose something for a minute: Jesus and I have the same adaptation, are we more evolved or less?

What would give Him praise?

Will my copying His adaptation, mean that I am as free from death as He is?

Imagine everyone has Jesus' adaptation: can decay change us?

What adaptation?

FYI you cannot be more or less evolved.

 

[Phil W]

Hi there,

Suppose something for a minute: Jesus and I have the same adaptation, are we more evolved or less?

What would give Him praise?

Will my copying His adaptation, mean that I am as free from death as He is?

Imagine everyone has Jesus' adaptation: can decay change us?

If by adaptation you mean love for God above all else and for your neighbor as your self, then Yes, you can be free from death.
The second death, on the day of judgement.

 

[Shemjaza]

Hi there,

Suppose something for a minute: Jesus and I have the same adaptation, are we more evolved or less?

What would give Him praise?

Will my copying His adaptation, mean that I am as free from death as He is?

Imagine everyone has Jesus' adaptation: can decay change us?

Evolutionary adaptations aren't personal decisions, and they have nothing to do with supernatural sin.

According to many Christians, Jesus was physically an unexceptional first century Jewish man. So from an evolutionary perspective he was much the same as you.

 

[Kylie]

Hi there,

Suppose something for a minute: Jesus and I have the same adaptation, are we more evolved or less?

Evolution doesn't work that way. Evolution isn't a case of more or less, it a case of better or worse for a particular environment. An animal that has a thick coat of fur is better adapted for life in a cold environment, but it would be very poorly adapted for life in a desert.

What would give Him praise?

That has nothing to do with evolution.

Will my copying His adaptation, mean that I am as free from death as He is?

It depends on what the adaption is that you share with Jesus. If Jesus evolved the "free from death" adaption (how that could be evolved makes no sense to me, but whatever), then yes.

However, if the adaption is something else, then no.

Imagine everyone has Jesus' adaptation: can decay change us?

What do you mean by decay?

In any case, your question seems to be based on a very poor understanding of what evolution is.

I would recommend that you stop asking questions based on your flawed ideas about evolution and instead start learning what evolution really is.

 

[Gottservant]

Evolution doesn't work that way. Evolution isn't a case of more or less, it a case of better or worse for a particular environment. [...]

So if everyone "needed" Jesus (for atonement of sins), I would have the right adaptation?

Until people sinned, again?

 

[Shemjaza]

So if everyone "needed" Jesus (for atonement of sins), I would have the right adaptation?

Until people sinned, again?

No.

Evolution is just about survival, diversity and change of species.

It is not about: souls, sin, salvation, choice

 

[Kylie]

So if everyone "needed" Jesus (for atonement of sins), I would have the right adaptation?

Until people sinned, again?

The only thing evolution cares about is creating a reproductive advantage.

Basically, if some adaptation makes it easy for someone to make babies, then that adaptation will spread, because the babies they have will carry that adaptation with them.

Unless believing in Jesus helped you have babies, then any adaptation that increased belief in Jesus won't have any effect.

 

[Freodin]

Sometimes I wonder how it would look if we could turn Gottservant's attention to something else... say, crocheting. Or baking.

Can you imagine his posts where he tried to muse about the relevance of Jesus for cheesecake? Or how one stitch could not be produced by a hook without attonement for your sins?

 

[Gottservant]

The only thing evolution cares about is creating a reproductive advantage.

Basically, if some adaptation makes it easy for someone to make babies, then that adaptation will spread, because the babies they have will carry that adaptation with them.

Unless believing in Jesus helped you have babies, then any adaptation that increased belief in Jesus won't have any effect.

Repenting makes it easier to have children (for one thing they are easier discipline and for another they have a standard to look up to), does that mean repenting comes to mean greater Evolution?

Like repenting will make you x amount more likely, to have a dependable genetic profile?

 

[Shemjaza]

Repenting makes it easier to have children (for one thing they are easier discipline and for another they have a standard to look up to), does that mean repenting comes to mean greater Evolution?

No. Repentance isn't genetic, so isn't a factor in evolution.

Like repenting will make you x amount more likely, to have a dependable genetic profile?

That doesn't happen.

Whatever genetic traits you have are the same if you become a Christian or not.

 

[Gottservant]

You are forgetting that adaptations can be shared.

Adaptations of instinct, at any rate.

You are probably just going to say "instinct is just survival" or something.

I don't think that's fair, that you will just consign instinct to survival, but argumentatively I can see that that's the only option you've got.

 

[Shemjaza]

You are forgetting that adaptations can be shared.

Adaptations of instinct, at any rate.

You are probably just going to say "instinct is just survival" or something.

I don't think that's fair, that you will just consign instinct to survival, but argumentatively I can see that that's the only option you've got.

Unless it's shared genetically to your offspring, then it isn't relevant to evolution.

 

[Gottservant]

Wait.

I think I get it.

I have an adaptation that makes me faster: that adaptation is that I do not attempt the impossible, without denying the inevitable. You will say "if you have faster, I want faster too" and I won't stop you... but ultimately that means you have a fraction of the speed I do, because you are relying partially on me to get it.

So because I do not attempt the impossible, we both end up with the same Evolution. But because I remember that I discovered faster adaptation, you can never execute yours more quickly, without taking personal responsibility for your Evolution, separately from mine.

And it will always be faster, because changing species is always impossible.

 

[Gottservant]

Unless it's shared genetically to your offspring, then it isn't relevant to evolution.

You don't think instinct involves genetic interpretation of pre-existent Evolution?

 

[Shemjaza]

Wait.

I think I get it.

I have an adaptation that makes me faster: that adaptation is that I do not attempt the impossible, without denying the inevitable. You will say "if you have faster, I want faster too" and I won't stop you... but ultimately that means you have a fraction of the speed I do, because you are relying partially on me to get it.

So because I do not attempt the impossible, we both end up with the same Evolution. But because I remember that I discovered faster adaptation, you can never execute yours more quickly, without taking personal responsibility for your Evolution, separately from mine.

And it will always be faster, because changing species is always impossible.

No, you aren't getting it.

Evolution acts on traits that are inherited from parents. It doesn't affect decisions, personal responsibility or what anything might have said.

Also, changing species is absolutely possible. If two separate populations of the same species build up enough changes so that interbreeding is rare or impossible, you say that they are separate species.

You don't think instinct involves genetic interpretation of pre-existent Evolution?

You are using terms in a difficult to understand way.

It's possible that some instincts are expressions of a genetic trait. But the phrase "interpretation of pre-existent Evolution" doesn't really make sense.

An animal doesn't have "An Evolution". It may have a trait that is helpful or harmful which could lead to the evolution of the species... but you need to stop applying evolution as a single event or decision by an individual animal.

 

[Gottservant]

No, you aren't getting it.

Evolution acts on traits that are inherited from parents. It doesn't affect decisions, personal responsibility or what anything might have said.

Also, changing species is absolutely possible. If two separate populations of the same species build up enough changes so that interbreeding is rare or impossible, you say that they are separate species.

You aren't getting, Man. Knowing I'm not from a monkey, my Evolution is always going to be faster than yours. Everything you do, before correcting that mistake, puts you further and further behind.

I'm not trying to advise you what to do about the fact that you are falling behind, I'm just saying "from where I stand, it is getting easier and easier to forget your Evolution".

You can hark up and say "no but don't consider me, consider my species" all you want, mate, it's not going to get you anywhere.

The species that believes the same as me, will be as much the faster than the species that believes some kind of error. That doesn't make it impossible for you to speed up temporarily, while the difference is being worked out. But facts are cold hard facts, I will be at the finishing line.

You are using terms in a difficult to understand way.
.

Ditto.

 

[Kylie]

Repenting makes it easier to have children (for one thing they are easier discipline and for another they have a standard to look up to), does that mean repenting comes to mean greater Evolution?

Like repenting will make you x amount more likely, to have a dependable genetic profile?

IF (and that's a big if) repenting somehow made it easier to have children, AND if willingness to repent was carried by some genetic component, then yes, people would evolve to be more willing to repent.

Let me put it another way.

Let's say there was a gene, and anyone who had this gene was a bit more likely to repent than someone who didn't have this gene. And let's also say that if you repented, then you were more likely to produce offspring. Then the people who had the Repenting gene would benefit from having it, because it would mean that they were more likely to engage in a behaviour that would make them better at passing on their genes (which would include the Repenting gene).

But, repenting doesn't actually give any benefit in regards to being better at reproduction. There are plenty of people who are deeply Christian, yet who struggle to have even one child. And there are many non-believers with large families. Repentance and reproductive proclivity don't have any connection like that. And there is no gene that makes someone more likely to repent. Repentance is an idea that is spread, it can't be passed on genetically. Unless someone is exposed to the idea of repentance, they aren't going to do it.

But I'm proud of you. You seem to have grasped one of the core concepts of evolution. If there's something that can be passed genetically from parent to offspring, and this thing makes it easier to produce children, then that thing is going to spread throughout the population. Well done!

 

[Kylie]

Wait.

I think I get it.

I have an adaptation that makes me faster: that adaptation is that I do not attempt the impossible, without denying the inevitable. You will say "if you have faster, I want faster too" and I won't stop you... but ultimately that means you have a fraction of the speed I do, because you are relying partially on me to get it.

So because I do not attempt the impossible, we both end up with the same Evolution. But because I remember that I discovered faster adaptation, you can never execute yours more quickly, without taking personal responsibility for your Evolution, separately from mine.

And it will always be faster, because changing species is always impossible.

No.

If you have some variation that benefits you, I can't take it just because I like it. I mean, I have grey eyes, and there have been lots of people who said they'd love to have eyes like mine. But none of them can just take that variation that I've got. Either they're born with grey eyes or they aren't.

 

[Shemjaza]

You aren't getting, Man. Knowing I'm not from a monkey, my Evolution is always going to be faster than yours. Everything you do, before correcting that mistake, puts you further and further behind.

That is not evolution.

That's not how evolution works, it doesn't apply to individuals.

You can say that I'm wrong; you can say that evolutionary science is wrong; you can say that your personal version of Christian Creationism is correct. But none of that changes that you are not talking about the actual theory of evolution... so when you try to comment on it, you are not making any kind of sense or reasonable point.

I'm not trying to advise you what to do about the fact that you are falling behind, I'm just saying "from where I stand, it is getting easier and easier to forget your Evolution".

Doesn't actually make any sense when discussing the theory of evolution.

You can hark up and say "no but don't consider me, consider my species" all you want, mate, it's not going to get you anywhere.

It's not going to get me anywhere because you ignore people when they try to point out your mistakes.

BUT accepting the theory of evolution is not about giving an individual advantages, decisions or anything like that. It's just a scientific description about how life changes and develops over generations... and that's it.

The species that believes the same as me, will be as much the faster than the species that believes some kind of error. That doesn't make it impossible for you to speed up temporarily, while the difference is being worked out. But facts are cold hard facts, I will be at the finishing line.

Can you actually explain what you mean by speed?

Belief doesn't change our DNA so it has no effect on evolution. If everyone on the planet who knows anything about evolution stopped accepting it wouldn't change anything about evolution... it's just an effect of life, not a religion and not a mysterious power.

You are using terms in a difficult to understand way.

Ditto.

I'm attempting to keep discussions about the theory of evolution using the terms and concepts that apply to the scientific theory.

You don't have to accept evolution to use the terms and concepts correctly.

When you make up your own versions without explaining what you mean you make communication and discussion impossible.