Jesus a myth made up by Romans ?

[Gracelands]

I came across this ABOMINATION this morning. Post 970.

Its on Bluelight ( a drug support forum). Any thoughts you might like to give them either DIRECTLY or indirectly?

Must say christians are woefully under represented on bluelight. Its tragic. Theres about 2 from what i can make out and one of them is Snow Whites step mum.

If you are looking for a mission surely this must be it?

(As long as you dont have substance abuse issues because they will try to lure you in with all sorts of potions that will drive you mad)

 

[Gracelands]

EADD Theology Megathread - Page 39


Obviously would have helped for me to post the thread lol its post 970

 

[RDKirk]

Professional historians have no debate about the fact that there was a historical Jesus. They may not go along with the spiritual aspects, but they don't debate his existence.

Of the types of records and indications historians use to determine whether an ancient figure actually existed, there are more such indications for a historical Jesus than there is for nearly any other ancient figure. If they threw out that kind of data for Jesus, they'd have to deny the existence of nearly every other figure older than 1000 years--excepting a few emperors.

If there was no Jesus of Nazareth, then there was certainly no Plato, Socratese, Aristotle, Homer, or Cicero--maybe not even a Shakespeare.

Whether they personally believe in Jesus or not, professional historians are not going to throw out their very own tools and put themselves out of business.

 

[Gracelands]

thanks kirk

 

[football5680]

There is nothing historical to back this up and the Romans persecuted Christians for 300 years so obviously it existed before that. If you simply read what the church fathers wrote then it is clear that the Roman Empire could do nothing to change anything or create any new story. Even if they tried it would be evident because we have the historical documents that would easily shows this change.

 

[lismore]

Hi Grace

Don't let it upset you. Why would 'atheists' spend so much time and effort debunking someone they don't believe ever existed?

 

[Serendipity..]

Richard Dawkins has something to say about this

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=lbLRE_SIMMU&desktop_uri=/watch?v=lbLRE_SIMMU

 

[Spaceman 3]

Well, of course it's possible.

If you take the figure of Paul, who was a Roman citizen AND a Jewish Pharisee - he would've known the Hebrew scriptures inside out, he could well have been 'their ideal man'.

Then there are also many questions againt the argument. Conventional history for example, teaches that the Roman Empire, & specifically Nero slaughtered thousands of Christians, & it wasn't until Constantine was converted that the Roman Empire fully accepted Christianity. They would have to produce evidence & explain the complexities surrounding the issue of persecution.

As for Dawkins - he's not a historian, so would have to simply rely upon & follow what he read on the subject.

It's an interesting one...

 

[AnthonyB]

My answer....

Oldest Christian writings are not the gospels but the Pauline letters.
Even if you take an extremely narrow view of which are genuine, you still have a set of letters written between 55 AD to 65 AD to people scattered thorough out the Roman empire, some of whom Paul had never visited. He basis arguements on historical facts about Jesus, which he just presumes the recievers already know. Some of the people recieving the letters are at times desputing his authority and choosing to prefer to listen to others. He is arguing in public forums about these facts.

The vast majority of people reported to be Christians where Jews, why would somone invent the idea of an incarnation of a diety as a central point of a religion to the probably the most ardently monotheistic people in the Roman empire. Why wouldn't the Romans just support Mithras religion.

How Christian humility upended the world – Opinion – ABC Religion & Ethics (Australian Broadcasting Corporation)

Read the link above, humility as a virtue was alien to Roman's and can be historically traced back as starting with the Christian movement. Why or how could the Roman's invent a myth that totally undercut and subverted there moral understanding?

 

[RDKirk]

My answer....

Oldest Christian writings are not the gospels but the Pauline letters.
Even if you take an extremely narrow view of which are genuine, you still have a set of letters written between 55 AD to 65 AD to people scattered thorough out the Roman empire, some of whom Paul had never visited. He basis arguements on historical facts about Jesus, which he just presumes the recievers already know. Some of the people recieving the letters are at times desputing his authority and choosing to prefer to listen to others. He is arguing in public forums about these facts.

The vast majority of people reported to be Christians where Jews, why would somone invent the idea of an incarnation of a diety as a central point of a religion to the probably the most ardently monotheistic people in the Roman empire. Why wouldn't the Romans just support Mithras religion.

How Christian humility upended the world – Opinion – ABC Religion & Ethics (Australian Broadcasting Corporation)

Read the link above, humility as a virtue was alien to Roman's and can be historically traced back as starting with the Christian movement. Why or how could the Roman's invent a myth that totally undercut and subverted there moral understanding?

So you're saying a Roman patrician could not have come up with something so incredibly stupid (from a Roman patrician point of view) as the Jesus story. I agree. It's 'way too far-fetched from Roman thought.

 

[Johnnz]

Bodily resurrection had no place in Greek and Roman thinking. Jesus totally contradicted their paradigms.

John
NZ

 

[WisdomTree]

Bodily resurrection had no place in Greek and Roman thinking. Jesus totally contradicted their paradigms.

John
NZ

Unless he was a level 99 Hero-class spellcaster with a Resurrection of the Dead superspell.