Jellyfish

[JM]

http://feileadhmor.wordpress.com/2012/12/20/jellyfish/

Benajah Harvey Carroll:


“The modern cry: ‘Less creed and more liberty,’ is a degeneration from the vertebrate to the jellyfish, and means less unity and less morality, and it means more heresy. Definitive truth does not create heresy it only exposes and corrects. Shut off the creed and the Christian world would fill up with heresy unsuspected and uncorrected, but none the less deadly.”


An Interpretation of the English Bible, Ephesians 4.

 

[twin1954]

Jellyfish « Feileadh Mor

Benajah Harvey Carroll:


“The modern cry: ‘Less creed and more liberty,’ is a degeneration from the vertebrate to the jellyfish, and means less unity and less morality, and it means more heresy. Definitive truth does not create heresy it only exposes and corrects. Shut off the creed and the Christian world would fill up with heresy unsuspected and uncorrected, but none the less deadly.”


An Interpretation of the English Bible, Ephesians 4.

I would disagree. More creed means less Biblical sufficiency. Folks tend to look to thier creeds more than the Scriptures when they bind themselves to them. Also the true people of Christ can never be so decieved as to find themselves outside the body of Christ. They may fall into error but never damnable heresy. The protection of the Sheep is in the hands of the Great Shepherd and He uses his pastors to guard them with utmost care. Creeds never protect the sheep pastors do.

 

[JM]

Wonderfully expressed creed brother. The only difference I see is Carroll's creed was written down for all to see and yours is not.

 

[Elderone]

Creeds never protect the sheep pastors do.

And the pastors for many years have been, almost completely, falling down on the job. It is only partially correct to say the churches are empty because the younger generations are continually brainwashed against anything Christian. A big part of the falling away is because God's word isn't being taught and God is allowing it, the falling away, to happen.

 

[twin1954]

And the pastors for many years have been, almost completely, falling down on the job. It is only partially correct to say the churches are empty because the younger generations are continually brainwashed against anything Christian. A big part of the falling away is because God's word isn't being taught and God is allowing it, the falling away, to happen.

I would say that those man made pastors are falling down on the job. But those men who are Christ's gift to His church, Eph, 4:8-13, called and placed by Him have not. I would contend that what is commonly called "Christendom" and the "Church" is only a sham and show intended to appeal to sight. We walk by faith not by sight. The true Church is as it always was, never the majority in any generation and always hated by the religious majority. That falling away is a symptom of man made religion and was fortold by Paul. 2Tim. 3:1-5, 2Thess. 2:3

 

[JM]

I agree that men not called by God to minster will fail and fall away but this doesn't mean biblical confessions of faith should not be used to confess the belief of a local congregation. If anything it proves the point. If the confession is scriptural then a man called to ministry will confession it.

 

[twin1954]

I agree that men not called by God to minster will fail and fall away but this doesn't mean biblical confessions of faith should not be used to confess the belief of a local congregation. If anything it proves the point. If the confession is scriptural then a man called to ministry will confession it.

The problem comes when men quote the confession instead of the Scriptures. Apparently you have never been made to sign a creed or confession as a church covenant in order to be a member of a church. I have and they bind you with it.

 

[JM]

The problem comes when men quote the confession instead of the Scriptures. Apparently you have never been made to sign a creed or confession as a church covenant in order to be a member of a church. I have and they bind you with it.

No sir, never had to sign a creed or confession. I did sign a covenant. I promised to attend services on a regular basis, proclaim the Gospel and support the ministry financially. (no % was ever mentioned or asked for)

 

[twin1954]

No sir, never had to sign a creed or confession. I did sign a covenant. I promised to attend services on a regular basis, proclaim the Gospel and support the ministry financially. (no % was ever mentioned or asked for)

Did you get the surprise visits from the pastor or elders checking up on you? I did.

 

[JM]

Did you get the surprise visits from the pastor or elders checking up on you? I did.

twin, I was the red headed step child in that church brother. They knew where I stood on the 'Calvinist' issue so it wasn't like they were dropping in on me at anytime. More then a few times I was blind sided after worship services by aggressive questioning from fellow church members but for the most part we were left alone. We left that church awhile ago and have visited a few other places, mostly a Presbyterian church and I think they ask for a full confessional subscription to the WCF or the 1689.

I think I'll do an A. W. Pink and just withdraw from all fellowship.

 

[twin1954]

twin, I was the red headed step child in that church brother. They knew where I stood on the 'Calvinist' issue so it wasn't like they were dropping in on me at anytime. More then a few times I was blind sided after worship services by aggressive questioning from fellow church members but for the most part we were left alone. We left that church awhile ago and have visited a few other places, mostly a Presbyterian church and I think they ask for a full confessional subscription to the WCF or the 1689.

I think I'll do an A. W. Pink and just withdraw from all fellowship.

You could attend but never actually become a certified member. You need the fellowship of other believers and so does your family. Sheep left alone in the wildwerness are fodder for the wolves. If you believe that there is no place where you are that you can fellowship then maybe it is time to move to a place where there is.

 

[JM]

I understand. Moving is not an option right now, we'll float around...we can always volunteer at the Salvation Army!

 

[Tomyris]

I've seen both extremes, I am afraid. The first is the overfocus on the creed, so that the creed effectively replaces Scripture. Scripture can only be read through the lens of the creed and there is no room for a deeper or other understanding. The creed is the fixed system, and all that is important is in it and all else is irrelevant.

The second is the refusal to have any creed: "the Bible is my creed". Here there is shifting sand unsupported by any systematic theology or any attempt to piece Scripture together in a comprehensible pattern. I knew a man who refused to subscribe to IVCF's extremely broad creed for this reason.

I spoke years ago with a professor at Covenant Seminary in St.Louis who said the church really ought to get on with the job of updating the WCF, but the tumult would be unbelievable as there is enough trouble with the WCF, let alone the same sort of subscribers crafting a new one. If you craft a creed, you have to be wary of its domination of you. Let it express your beliefs, carve them in stone if you will, but then what if you come to a new understanding, a better theology, a wiser view? Is the new you a better you than the one that a few years ago bound you to that creed?

We need the meat and we need the bones.