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Jedi Q and A...Ask a Jedi

philosopherthales

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Ok, to introduce myself: I consider myself a Jedi. This is not a joke, an internet hoax, or a cheap trick to get a laugh. This is truthfully a belief that I hold.

Perhaps a short introduction to the concept is in store. For more information, the link at the bottom will lead you to all the information you probably need.

The concept is to apply “JedI” ideals as seen in a fictional "universe" called Star Wars. The fiction includes 6 movies, more books than I care to count (let alone read), and comic books. It applies the concept of the force, a code, and hopefully later on: an "Order". It can be seen many ways and includes a few different aspects: a belief system, an organized religion, and/or a way of life.

The way of life includes many things. These are the things you do. It includes martial arts, general physical fitness, meditation, academics. These train your mind, body and spirit (the totality of ones being) and together balance your lifestyle to be a better overall human being. Besides training yourself, you must apply that training to better the world around you. A Jedi's role in bettering the world is through conflict resolution. Now, I should probably dispel the idea that this means vigilantism per say. I see it more as working through the existing peace keeping forces around the world: Armed Forces or Police. Although this is true, a Jedi can help out in many ways and should do whatever they can given the circumstances of their environment.

The belief system aspect is the belief in the Force. There are many views on this represented. Some would say that it is everything and encompasses everything. It could be seen as the primal force or in other words, the proverbial "gear" that drives the universe and causes what is here to be. It could be seen as ki (chi), prana, orgone, and for others even God (with the specific ideas behind those words). The movies refer to a "will of the force". So, perhaps it is God-like with motives, thoughts, etc. Another conception that is out there is that the will of the force is derived from the collective consciousness of all living things. It is made up of the will, hopes, dreams, desires, fears of every plant, animal, fungi, bacterium or protist. The force, for intellectual purposes, might be broken down into other forces. For instance: the Universal Force, the Living Force, and the Personal Force.

The Jedi Order aspect of the Jedi (organized religion/philosophy) is not fully developed as of yet. There are attempts though, and there have been attempts in the past. There is a non-profit organization out there, and a few different councils. I will just describe the Jedi Order in theory though, and theorize based off of the fictional modal.

The ranks that are used are (in fiction at least): Padawan, Jedi Knight and Jedi Master. I think of these as the following: A Padawan is one learning the way of life, and is not yet ready for the activities and responsibilities of Jedi-hood. A Jedi Knight is one trained to a degree of professional skills. A Jedi Master is one learned enough to preserve the way of life (to serve on the council, or to take on a Padawan or teaching job and teach others the path). The council, made up of a sub-set of the "Masters" is the decision making body of the group.

As of right now, most activity is over the internet. The Jedi are few and far between, and what I would call true Jedi (don't just pay lip service or declare oneself a Jedi) are even farther apart (if there is even a person worthy of the title as of know). There have been offline meetings, and offline activity in general to a small degree (all relative of course). So, this Jedi Order is not exactly in existence. It would though include offline person-person "real-life" training in an organized training regimen, a Head-Quarters for Council meetings, local "chapters", etc. These are just my tentative musings though.

If there are any questions, feel free to ask. I will try to get you an answer (if not from me, then from one of my colleagues)

Go to this for more information.
http://www.jediresourcecenter.org/website/news.php
It has a links page....
 

philosopherthales

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Your religious icon dictates otherwise.

Obviously, there is no Jedi religion icon here. Deism works for me.

deism:


www.m-w.com
[QUOTE]Your religious icon dictates otherwise.[/QUOTE]
a movement or system of thought advocating natural religion, emphasizing morality, and in the 18th century denying the interference of the Creator with the laws of the universe

www.dictionary.com

The belief, based solely on reason, in a God who created the universe and then abandoned it, assuming no control over life, exerting no influence on natural phenomena, and giving no supernatural revelation.

http://www.religioustolerance.org/deism.htm
The word "Deism" is derived from the Latin word for God: "Deus." Deism involves the belief in the existence of God, on purely rational grounds, without any reliance on revealed religion or religious authority.

As you can see, it is not a very hard-set term. There are many conceptions of it. When I decided to pick deism as my icon, I did not understand the term adequately. Your bringing up of the ambiguity was a good thing and has directed my attention to investigating it farther.

Perhaps I should change my icon.

Also, my thoughts on the force are much different than the general thoughts of Jedi out there. The main purpose of this thread is public awareness and learning, so, I would wish to portray the Jedi as a whole rather than just myself. That could describe some of how my words on the Jedi belief system doesn't jive with my personal belief system. In fact, I have been called a non-Jedi more than once. Of course, my thoughts will be inherently within my portrayal, but I will try to separate things and give an accurate look at anything surrounding the Jedi.

The Jedi are still in a rather unsteady state. Definition is still being debated as debate has been only going on between people mainly only for the last 7 or so years (though personal studies have been going back as far as the release of the original trilogy). This is a very small time period when compared to the formation of other ideas/theories/lifestyles/belief systems/organizations. There is a formative process going on, and so making generalizations about what Jedi are or will be might not be accurate, yet I will try to be accurate within my time restraints, my knowledge restraints, and the restraints of people viewing this thread.
 
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philosopherthales

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The Jedi always struck me as being a futuristic version of the Samurai, intense focusing on thier weapons as an extension of themselves, service to a higher master (or force)

"Real-life" Jedi put much focus on service to the Force- some more so than others. Generally, there is the idea that one should be guided by the Force and listen to it. Yet, "higher master" might draw objections, given that the force can also be seen as having a mutual relationship with human beings and life in general. The idea is there that we can control it, guide it, influence it as well. Life creates it and makes it grow to quote yoda.

Martial arts is focused on as well. Martial application develops the totality of ones being. You must use your mind, your body, and your intuition/will (which would be link to your soul or the Force). One generally should learn to defend oneself and others if the situation and need arises. These are all rather common ideas that get tossed around in Jedi circles.

Thanks for bringing up the Samurai. A comparison between Jedi and Samurai is in order. The concepts have lots of similarities (more so in fiction than in real life).

In Star Wars, the Jedi were a state-sponsored peace keeping force, like the Samurai of feudal Japan. They both wielded a type of sword: the Jedi had a “light-saber” and the Samurai had a Katana. There is much focus on training with the sword in both lifestyles. Jedi had what were called apprenticeships, while the Samurai had Shudo or Bido which described the strong relationship between a veteran Samurai and one learning the skills and ideas necessary to be a Samurai.

Beliefs:
Samurai had religious influence from Shinto, Confucianism, and Zen Buddhism. Jedi also take influence from Buddhism in the form of meditation, yet Shintoism or Confucianism philosophy is hardly discussed or represented. The Samurai took Meditation as a way to train the mind to be calm and focused in battle, a way to let go of fear so as to fight more effectively. The Jedi, though probably perceiving the former to be true, focus on the idea that meditation is a way of connecting to the Force. Calming the mind allows one to expand his consciousness beyond himself and his own thoughts. By quelling self-generated ideas, one can much better distinguish ones own ideas from those that are coming from one’s environment. It is seen as a way to let go of ordinary preconceptions, and experience raw perception. The Jedi also take much from Taoism, and I am aware of no such influence on Samurai. One of the main concepts of Taoism is Yin and Yang and balance between them. This is represented in the movies and real-life Jedi belief in the idea of a Dark-side and Light-side.

Code:
There are many versions of a Jedi Code. There is the “Circle”, 21 maxims, a four line stanza, and one consisting of 7 tenants. Perhaps the code is a combination of a few of these elements. More than this, there is the individualized ethics of each individual.

The Samurai followed Bushido which among other things, is a code of conduct. The code of conduct consists of these basic principles:

Rectitude, Courage, Benevolence, Respect, Honesty, Honor/Glory and Loyalty.

The virtues of the Samurai are somewhat reflected in the 21 Maxims which are:

-The Force, Benevolence, Wisdom, Growth, Balance, Harmony, Focus, Principles, Discipline, Patience, Resolve, Courage, Prowess, Perceptiveness, Innovativeness, Cordiality, Integrity, Motivation, Decisiveness, Commitment, Sincerity, Tactfulness.

Courage and Benevolence are in both codes, integrity covers loyalty and honesty yet also all the principles (integrity and integration are similar ideas), and rectitude similarly comes from following all virtues. Honor/Glory or a synonymous idea is missing in the Maxims, yet present for Samurai. One should not seek honor/glory (which specifically implies recognition of greatness) for its own sake, yet one may gain honor by correct action. So, although it isn’t something I would see as a virtue or something to strive for, it can be seen as an idea that is inherently linked to virtue.

There are a few other written versions of codes as said before. If there are any questions on them, I will post them and discuss them. Here is another example besides the 21 maxims that is probably the most widely used:

There is no emotion; there is peace.
There is no ignorance; there is knowledge.
There is no passion; there is serenity.
There is no death; there is the Force.

The first line expresses the idea that through clear thinking, rather than emotional thinking, one can achieve both inner-peace and through inner-peace, effect the world in a way that gains peace at large.

The second line expresses the idea that knowledge is a key component of what we are about.

The third line basically says the same thing as the first line (in poetry, it is a common practice to repeat ideas and is called parallelism I believe).

The fourth line expresses the idea that with the force, death is an illusion. Death, as defined as the seizing of the life/consciousness of the self, does not exist. Instead, physical death is just a transition. This could be tied to the Buddhist concept of the illusory nature of the self. Without the self, there is no death.

I should note that although this is commonly referred to as a code within Jedi circles, it is not in the common sense a code. A code usually has guidelines for action, but this generally just outlines a mindset or belief system. This is true, yet it is also correct that true belief will manifest itself into corresponding actions. So, it is a code in the sense that it is a guiding concept.
 
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philosopherthales

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Do you know anyone that has submitted to it?

Well, submission in this case is all a matter of degree. I know people who have done the wrong things and have hurt people. I have done the same. These are dark things, and so, you can call it all a part of the darkside.

Is there also an order of sith?

Well, I wouldn't call it an order. Yet, just as the Jedi philosophy has drawn a very small set of people, the darker aspects of the movies have hit a chord as well. Frankly, I just take people who call themselves Sith as people playing a role playing game. I don't take it too seriously. Obviously, they aren't the force choking, planet destroying, dictator, Jedi killing type since they are posting on the internet for everyone to see.

Sithism.com is the main site. It is down because of a server crash though.
 
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Abbadon

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Why not just follow the religions and philosophies the Jedi were based off of: Taoism, Buddhism, and Christianity? Why follow a religion that is known to be made up?

Also, what's your view on the unifying force, or the potentium view? What about grey Jedi?
 
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philosopherthales

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Why not just follow the religions and philosophies the Jedi were based off of: Taoism, Buddhism, and Christianity? Why follow a religion that is known to be made up?

Well, I have a few contradictions I see here. If the Jedi philosophy is made up, yet, it is based on Christianity, Taoism, and Buddhism - is it really made up (at least, anymore than those religions)? I think the idea of "made up", at least when it comes to it being a negative thing, derives from it being un-true. Well, is it un-true? Can I have an opinion that says it sounds more true to me than those other things you listed. Also, If I follow a hodge-podge of those religions with combinations that I derive myself, isn't that just getting doing the same thing. Making something up?

Also, what's your view on the unifying force, or the potentium view?

I don't really know what you are referring to when you use the term "potentium view". As far as the unifying force:

The unifying force or universal force is the idea that the force is a connection between all things. It doesn't just involve itself with life or a person's own inner-self, but everything that exists. The universal force concept involves the seperation of things, but mainly the lack of seperation. It shows how things are related (as in different and contrasted), yet also how everything is on the base level the same.

What about grey Jedi?

Ok, to fill people in, this is the defination of a Gray Jedi as defined by the website www.thejedi.org.

Gray Jedi are Jedi who promote in being in balance with the Force, not simply follow the light side of the Force though light teachings. It is rumored that George Lucas claimed Qui-Gon Jinn was in fact a Gray Jedi, proving they do actually exist. Many groups of Gray Jedi find Jedi (or Light Jedi) to be too involved with compassion, while Dark Jedi, they say, are too focused on hatred or personal gain. Similar to Shadow teachings, they find, like Qui-Gon Jinn, a Jedi must follow the will of the Force whatever the consequences, and that other Jedi groups, particularly Light and Dark Jedi, are too political to realize this simple truth.

My view is that such titles are really rather meaningless. There is only one type of Jedi, and it consists of a rather narrow spectrum of thought and action. I see compassion as something to always follow, and never hatred. The Gray Jedi philosophy contradicts my view of reality pretty heavily. I am more willing to be guided by my own conscience than the will of the force when it comes to moral matters. Frankly, I question the idea of the Force actually having a will.
 
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philosopherthales

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Taoism is not a religion, it is a philosophy. It is considered a religion because the Chinese government made it law that everyone had to practice it and called it the state religion, even though it is not.

point noted

In your opinion, is the Force a mystical energy field pervading all lliving things or a type of microorganism known as midi-chlorians? (Basically, is the Force non-physical or physical)

The movies never portrayed midi-chlorians as the force itself. They were portrayed only as the conduit from which the force interacts with people. If you are using novels or comic books as a source for your conception of the portrayal of midi-chlorians, then tell me. I am really only going off the movie source.

Jedi (real life) really don't believe midi-chlorians have anything to do with the force. Midi-chlorians are an obviously purposeful allusion to mitochondrion which are the power source of cells. Mitochondria convert organic molecules to ATP which is stored energy for the cell to use. The idea that the force is tied to physical process and physical mechanisms in these midi-chlorians just didn't work with people and they rejected it. I feel it would be more non-localized and not have specific conduits, but would more likely travel along all channels. It would not specifically have a part of one's body or environement be its sole source of interaction with physical reality and living things.

I would say that Jedi see it as an energy field generally and has much to do with life (more so than it does with ordinary matter). That is more accurate than the alternative you give at least. It is generally seen as non-physical and does not abide by the concepts generally applied to physical reality. By that, I mean it works beyond the rules of location, distance and time (and the limits imposed by those ideas).
 
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TrueQ

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Princess Leia ain't no Virgin Mary, I'll tell you, she even kissed her brother that one time.

It seems to me like there isn't enough material in the movies for anyone to be able to reconstruct the Jedi code completely enough to actually follow it. So how was it that this Jedi religion came to be? Did Lucas come out with a book of fluff on the subject, or did someone compile everything they could glean and then fill in the rest, or what?
 
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J

JoeSixpack

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TrueQ said:
Princess Leia ain't no Virgin Mary, I'll tell you, she even kissed her brother that one time.

It seems to me like there isn't enough material in the movies for anyone to be able to reconstruct the Jedi code completely enough to actually follow it. So how was it that this Jedi religion came to be? Did Lucas come out with a book of fluff on the subject, or did someone compile everything they could glean and then fill in the rest, or what?

I know the Jedi code was in a computer game I played, it's probably been in other books and stuff. There are loads of comics, novels and games etc to get info from.

There's also a code of the sith:

Peace is a lie
There is only passion
Through passion I gain strength
Through strength I gain power
Through power I gain victory
Through victory my chains are broken
The Force shall set me free

w00t
 
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