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James the Brother of Jesus was a preterist...

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EchoPneuma

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and they killed him for it.
James was martyred in AD 62. The story of his martyrdom can be found in Eusebius of Caesarea's work, Church History (AD 325), Book II, Chapter 23: The Martyrdom of James, who was called the Brother of the Lord: Here is the account -

[size=+2]~ ~ ~[/size]But after Paul, in consequence of his appeal to C'sar, had been sent to Rome by Festus, the Jews, being frustrated in their hope of entrapping him by the snares which they had laid for him, turned against James, the brother of the Lord, to whom the episcopal seat at Jerusalem had been entrusted by the apostles. The following daring measures were undertaken by them against him. Leading him into their midst they demanded of him that he should renounce faith in Christ in the presence of all the people. But, contrary to the opinion of all, with a clear voice, and with greater boldness than they had anticipated, he spoke out before the whole multitude and confessed that our Saviour and Lord Jesus is the Son of God. But they were unable to bear longer the testimony of the man who, on account of the excellence of ascetic virtue and of piety which he exhibited in his life, was esteemed by all as the most just of men, and consequently they slew him. Opportunity for this deed of violence was furnished by the prevailing anarchy, which was caused by the fact that Festus had died just at this time in Judea, and that the province was thus without a governor and head. The manner of James' death has been already indicated by the above-quoted words of Clement, who records that he was thrown from the pinnacle of the temple, and was beaten to death with a club. But Hegesippus, who lived immediately after the apostles, gives the most accurate account in the fifth book of his Memoirs.

He writes as follows:
“James, the brother of the Lord, succeeded to the government of the Church in conjunction with the apostles. He has been called the Just by all from the time of our Saviour to the present day; for there were many that bore the name of James. He was holy from his mother's womb; and he drank no wine nor strong drink, nor did he eat flesh. No razor came upon his head; he did not anoint himself with oil, and he did not use the bath. He alone was permitted to enter into the holy place; for he wore not woolen but linen garments. And he was in the habit of entering alone into the temple, and was frequently found upon his knees begging forgiveness for the people, so that his knees became hard like those of a camel, in consequence of his constantly bending them in his worship of God, and asking forgiveness for the people. Because of his exceeding great justice he was called the Just, and Oblias, which signifies in Greek, 'Bulwark of the people' and 'Justice,' in accordance with what the prophets declare concerning him. Now some of the seven sects, which existed among the people and which have been mentioned by me in the Memoirs, asked him, 'What is the gate of Jesus? and he replied that he was the Saviour. On account of these words some believed that Jesus is the Christ. But the sects mentioned above did not believe either in a resurrection or in one's coming to give to every man according to his works. But as many as believed did so on account of James. Therefore when many even of the rulers believed, there was a commotion among the Jews and Scribes and Pharisees, who said that there was danger that the whole people would be looking for Jesus as the Christ. Coming therefore in a body to James they said, 'We entreat thee, restrain the people; for they are gone astray in regard to Jesus, as if he were the Christ. We entreat thee to persuade all that have come to the feast of the Passover concerning Jesus; for we all have confidence in thee. For we bear thee witness, as do all the people, that thou art just, and dost not respect persons. Do thou therefore persuade the multitude not to be led astray concerning Jesus. For the whole people, and all of us also, have confidence in thee. Stand therefore upon the pinnacle of the temple, that from that high position thou mayest be clearly seen, and that thy words may be readily heard by all the people. For all the tribes, with the Gentiles also, are come together on account of the Passover.'

The aforesaid Scribes and Pharisees therefore placed James upon the pinnacle of the temple, and cried out to him and said: 'Thou just one, in whom we ought all to have confidence, forasmuch as the people are led, astray after Jesus, the crucified one, declare to us, what is the gate of Jesus.' And he answered with a loud voice, 'Why do ye ask me concerning Jesus, the Son of Man? He himself sitteth in heaven at the right hand of the great Power, and is ABOUT TO COME upon the clouds of heaven.' And when many were fully convinced and gloried in the testimony of James, and said, 'Hosanna to the Son of David,' these same Scribes and Pharisees said again to one another, 'We have done badly in supplying such testimony to Jesus. But let us go up and throw him down, in order that they may be afraid to believe him.' And they cried out, saying, 'Oh! oh! the just man is also in error.' And they fulfilled the Scripture written in Isaiah, 'Let us take away the just man, because he is troublesome to us: therefore they shall eat the fruit of their doings.' So they went up and threw down the just man, and said to each other, 'Let us stone James the Just.' And they began to stone him, for he was not killed by the fall; but he turned and knelt down and said, 'I entreat thee, Lord God our Father, forgive them, for they know not what they do.' And while they were thus stoning him one of the priests of the sons of Rechab, the son of the Rechabites, who are mentioned by Jeremiah the prophet, cried out, saying, 'Cease, what do ye? The just one prayeth for you.'

And one of them, who was a fuller, took the club with which he beat out clothes and struck the just man on the head. And thus he suffered martyrdom. And they buried him on the spot, by the temple, and his monument still remains by the temple. He became a true witness, both to Jews and Greeks, that Jesus is the Christ.”

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He told those people that Jesus was ABOUT TO COME on the clouds of heaven....and they martyred him for it. Was James the brother of Jesus wrong?
 

EchoPneuma

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Charles H. Spurgeon believed we are NOW living in the new heaven and the new earth. Here is a exerpt from one of his sermons.

(On the New Heavens and Earth)
"Did you ever regret the absence of the burnt-offering, or the red heifer, of any one of the sacrifices and rites of the Jews? Did you ever pine for the feast of tabernacle, or the dedication? No, because, though these were like the old heavens and earth to the Jewish believers, they have passed away, and we now live under a new heavens and a new earth, so far as the dispensation of divine teaching is concerned. The substance is come, and the shadow has gone: and we do not remember it." (Metropolitan Tabernacle Pulpit, vol. xxxvii, p. 354).
 
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Odsolo

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EchoPneuma said:
and they killed him for it.
James was martyred in AD 62. The story of his martyrdom can be found in Eusebius of Caesarea's work, Church History (AD 325), Book II, Chapter 23: The Martyrdom of James, who was called the Brother of the Lord: Here is the account - * * *

______________________________

He told those people that Jesus was ABOUT TO COME on the clouds of heaven....and they martyred him for it. Was James the brother of Jesus wrong?

James died, probably, before the end of the first century. Eusebius wrote, in the 4th century. What was his source for the James quote?
 
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EchoPneuma

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Odsolo said:
James died, probably, before the end of the first century. Eusebius wrote, in the 4th century. What was his source for the James quote?

James was martyred in 62AD in Jerusalem. Eusebius' source was:



Saint Hegesippus


Greek Christian historian and champion of orthodoxy who opposed the heresy of Gnosticism (q.v.). His single known work, five books of memoirs, constitutes a prime source on the organizational structure and theological ferment of the primitive Christian church.

Probably of Jewish descent, Hegesippus c. 180 composed his memoirs, containing a mélange of historical, doctrinal, polemical, and catechetical interpolations. In his memoirs he noted the succession of Roman bishops down to Pope Eleutherius (174–189), accenting, however, their doctrine rather than the chronology of succession. Recent scholarship infers Hegesippus' Hebraic background from the attention he pays in his memoirs to the Jewish-Christian community in Jerusalem and its history of episcopal leaders. The preservation of segments of his memoirs by the 4th-century historian Eusebius of Caesarea provides the most direct existing witness to the primitive church of Jerusalem and the fate of Palestinian Christianity as a result of the anti-Jewish pogrom conducted after [size=-1]AD[/size] 70 by the Roman emperors Vespasian and Domitian.


The quote above concerning the martydom of James was in book 5 or the memoirs of Hegesippus.
 
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Odsolo

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EchoPneuma said:
James was martyred in 62AD in Jerusalem. Eusebius' source was:

Saint Hegesippus


Greek Christian historian and champion of orthodoxy who opposed the heresy of Gnosticism (q.v.). His single known work, five books of memoirs, constitutes a prime source on the organizational structure and theological ferment of the primitive Christian church.

Probably of Jewish descent, Hegesippus c. 180 composed his memoirs, containing a mélange of historical, doctrinal, polemical, and catechetical interpolations.. . . The preservation of segments of his memoirs by the 4th-century historian Eusebius of Caesarea provides the most direct existing witness to the primitive church of Jerusalem and the fate of Palestinian Christianity as a result of the anti-Jewish pogrom conducted after AD 70 by the Roman emperors Vespasian and Domitian.

The quote above concerning the martydom of James was in book 5 or the memoirs of Hegesippus.

You do know the meaning of "interpolation" don't you? Hegesippus lived at least 100 years after the fact. And note your quote specifies "after" 70 AD.

If James had been only one year younger than Jesus, he would have died in the year 95 a.d., twenty five years after the fall of Jerusalem, 70 a.d., when Preterists claim Jesus returned. So if James was a Preterist he had his dates wrong.

But if he was killed by the Jews they did not kill him for saying that Jesus was about to come back. Returning from the dead was not a stoning offense. James was very likely killed for saying Jesus was sitting at the right hand of the father, the same reason the Jews stoned Stephen, Acts 7:56, and part of the reason the Jews had Jesus crucified, Matt 26:64, Mk 14:62, Lk 22:69.
Foxes Book of Martyrs -V. James the Less

Is supposed by some to have been the brother of our Lord, by a former wife of Joseph. This is very doubtful, and accords too much with the Catholic superstition, that Mary never had any other children except our Savior. He was elected to the oversight of the churches of Jerusalem; and was the author of the Epistle ascribed to James in the sacred canon. At the age of ninety-four he was beat and stoned by the Jews; and finally had his brains dashed out with a fuller’s club.​
In Eusebius' Church History he doesn't seem to have very high opinion of James or his epistle. "so-called brother of our Lord" and "so called epistle of James."

You said James was martyred in 62 AD, but Eusebius implies that he was still alive when Jerusalem was destroyed, book III. And in the same book states that Jerusalem was destroyed immediately after James was martyred. In Preterist speak, immediately means immediately, not eight years later.

Eusebius also states, in book II, the reason the Jews killed James, not because he was a preterist but because of the "danger that the whole people would be looking for Jesus as the Christ."
Eusebius Pamphilus The Church History Of Eusebius. Book IV

The first, then, was James, the so-called brother of the Lord; the second, Symeon; the third, Justus; the fourth, Zacchaeus; the fifth, Tobias; the sixth, Benjamin; the seventh, John; the eighth, Matthias; the ninth, Philip; the tenth, Seneca; the eleventh, Justus; the twelfth, Levi; the thirteenth, Ephres; the fourteenth, Joseph; and finally, the fifteenth, Judas. 4These are the bishops of Jerusalem that lived between the age of the apostles and the time referred to, all of them belonging to the circumcision.

http://www.ccel.org/fathers2/NPNF2-01/Npnf2-01-09.htm#P2227_1055358

Eusebius Pamphilus The Church History Of Eusebius. Book III

Chapter XXV. The Divine Scriptures that are Accept and Those that are Not

3
Among the disputed writings, which are nevertheless recognized by many, are extant the so-called epistle of James and that of Jude, also the second epistle of Peter, and those that are called the second and third of John, whether they belong to the evangelist or to another person of the same name.

9 But it may be proper to mention also those events which exhibited the graciousness of that all-good Providence which held back their destruction full forty years after their crime against Christ,-during which time many of the apostles and disciples, and James himself the first bishop there, the one who is called the brother of the Lord,93 were still alive, and dwelling in Jerusalem itself, remained the surest bulwark of the place. Divine Providence thus still proved itself long-suffering toward them in order to see whether by repentance for what they had done they might obtain pardon and salvation; and in addition to such long-suffering, Providence also furnished wonderful signs of the things which were about to happen to them if they did not repent.

1 After the martyrdom of James129 and the conquest of Jerusalem which immediately followed,130 it is said that those of the apostles and disciples of the Lord that were still living came together from all directions with those that were related to the Lord according to the flesh131 (for the majority of them also were still alive) to take counsel as to who was worthy to succeed James.

http://www.ccel.org/fathers2/NPNF2-01/Npnf2-01-08.htm#P1497_696002

Eusebius Pamphilus The Church History Of Eusebius. Book II

10
Therefore when many even of the rulers believed, there was a commotion among the Jews and Scribes and Pharisees, who said that there was danger that the whole people would be looking for Jesus as the Christ. Coming therefore in a body to James they said, `We entreat thee, restrain the people; for they are gone astray in regard to Jesus, as if he were the Christ. We entreat thee to persuade all that have come to the feast of the Passover concerning Jesus; for we all have confidence in thee. For we bear thee witness, as do all the people, that thou art just, and dost not respect persons.

http://www.ccel.org/fathers2/NPNF2-01/Npnf2-01-07.htm#P938_461218
 
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EchoPneuma

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Odsolo said:
You do know the meaning of "interpolation" don't you? Hegesippus lived at least 100 years after the fact. And note your quote specifies "after" 70 AD.

If James had been only one year younger than Jesus, he would have died in the year 95 a.d., twenty five years after the fall of Jerusalem, 70 a.d., when Preterists claim Jesus returned. So if James was a Preterist he had his dates wrong.



But if he was killed by the Jews they did not kill him for saying that Jesus was about to come back. Returning from the dead was not a stoning offense. James was very likely killed for saying Jesus was sitting at the right hand of the father, the same reason the Jews stoned Stephen, Acts 7:56, and part of the reason the Jews had Jesus crucified, Matt 26:64, Mk 14:62, Lk 22:69.
Foxes Book of Martyrs -V. James the Less


Is supposed by some to have been the brother of our Lord, by a former wife of Joseph. This is very doubtful, and accords too much with the Catholic superstition, that Mary never had any other children except our Savior. He was elected to the oversight of the churches of Jerusalem; and was the author of the Epistle ascribed to James in the sacred canon. At the age of ninety-four he was beat and stoned by the Jews; and finally had his brains dashed out with a fuller’s club.
In Eusebius' Church History he doesn't seem to have very high opinion of James or his epistle. "so-called brother of our Lord" and "so called epistle of James."


You said James was martyred in 62 AD, but Eusebius implies that he was still alive when Jerusalem was destroyed, book III. And in the same book states that Jerusalem was destroyed immediately after James was martyred. In Preterist speak, immediately means immediately, not eight years later.



Eusebius also states, in book II, the reason the Jews killed James, not because he was a preterist but because of the "danger that the whole people would be looking for Jesus as the Christ."
Eusebius Pamphilus The Church History Of Eusebius. Book IV


The first, then, was James, the so-called brother of the Lord; the second, Symeon; the third, Justus; the fourth, Zacchaeus; the fifth, Tobias; the sixth, Benjamin; the seventh, John; the eighth, Matthias; the ninth, Philip; the tenth, Seneca; the eleventh, Justus; the twelfth, Levi; the thirteenth, Ephres; the fourteenth, Joseph; and finally, the fifteenth, Judas. 4These are the bishops of Jerusalem that lived between the age of the apostles and the time referred to, all of them belonging to the circumcision.

http://www.ccel.org/fathers2/NPNF2-01/Npnf2-01-09.htm#P2227_1055358

Eusebius Pamphilus The Church History Of Eusebius. Book III

Chapter XXV. The Divine Scriptures that are Accept and Those that are Not

3 Among the disputed writings, which are nevertheless recognized by many, are extant the so-called epistle of James and that of Jude, also the second epistle of Peter, and those that are called the second and third of John, whether they belong to the evangelist or to another person of the same name.

9 But it may be proper to mention also those events which exhibited the graciousness of that all-good Providence which held back their destruction full forty years after their crime against Christ,-during which time many of the apostles and disciples, and James himself the first bishop there, the one who is called the brother of the Lord,93 were still alive, and dwelling in Jerusalem itself, remained the surest bulwark of the place. Divine Providence thus still proved itself long-suffering toward them in order to see whether by repentance for what they had done they might obtain pardon and salvation; and in addition to such long-suffering, Providence also furnished wonderful signs of the things which were about to happen to them if they did not repent.

1 After the martyrdom of James129 and the conquest of Jerusalem which immediately followed,130 it is said that those of the apostles and disciples of the Lord that were still living came together from all directions with those that were related to the Lord according to the flesh131 (for the majority of them also were still alive) to take counsel as to who was worthy to succeed James.

http://www.ccel.org/fathers2/NPNF2-01/Npnf2-01-08.htm#P1497_696002

Eusebius Pamphilus The Church History Of Eusebius. Book II

10 Therefore when many even of the rulers believed, there was a commotion among the Jews and Scribes and Pharisees, who said that there was danger that the whole people would be looking for Jesus as the Christ. Coming therefore in a body to James they said, `We entreat thee, restrain the people; for they are gone astray in regard to Jesus, as if he were the Christ. We entreat thee to persuade all that have come to the feast of the Passover concerning Jesus; for we all have confidence in thee. For we bear thee witness, as do all the people, that thou art just, and dost not respect persons.

http://www.ccel.org/fathers2/NPNF2-01/Npnf2-01-07.htm#P938_461218

My quote from James stands...and so does the date of his martyrdom at 62AD. If you choose to believe Foxe's Book of Martyrs instead of Hegesippus that is your perogative.

James obviously believed that Jesus was coming back VERY VERY SOON as his statement shows ....he said "He is ABOUT TO come on the clouds of heaven".

I believe he spoke these words in 62AD and that Jesus returned in 70AD. Meaning that Jesus was coming very soon....within that generation, as Jesus told His disciples earlier.

But let's say you ARE correct and James said that statement sometime in the 90's. What difference does it make. He would STILL have said that "Jesus is ABOUT TO COME on the clouds of heaven".

Those words were spoken approx 2000 years ago even if spoken in the 90's.....so was James WRONG? Had His brother Jesus deluded and misled him?

I don't believe so. I believe James KNEW that Jesus was returning within his generation and that he KNEW Jesus was "about to" come to judge Israel....because he believed what Jesus told him. That's why he said it.

and Jesus DID return in 70AD on clouds of judgement against Israel, and was just like Paul described Him:

1 Timothy 1:17
Now to the King eternal, immortal, invisible, the only God, be honor and glory for ever and ever. Amen

and He's been here ever since...ruling and reigning within His worldwide kingdom in the hearts of righteous men. :bow:
 
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