Jakes on Predestination

[JM]

No matter where you are in life right now, know this: God put you on this earth to fulfill the promise He has predestined for your life. - T. D. Jakes

A broken clock and all...

 

[JackRT]

No matter where you are in life right now, know this: God put you on this earth to fulfill the promise He has predestined for your life. - T. D. Jakes

A broken clock and all...

A serious question --- is it actually possible to believe in predestination and still be a Christian?

 

[com7fy8]

No matter where you are in life right now, know this: God put you on this earth to fulfill the promise He has predestined for your life.

To me, it looks like he means God planned in advance what He will do with each person in this life. TD here is not talking about predestination of where someone will spend eternity.

If he means this, this can mean God is the One really in control of each person's life; and "God is love", right? (in 1 John 4:8&16); so this would mean love is in control of what becomes of every person's life. And I would say this is good, how love is winning over our selfish stuff.

By the way, we do see how human love can destine things. If you fall in love with someone, this can decide a lot of future things Even at the human level, love can control quite a lot!

An example of how God's love can win out is how things worked out for Joseph > Genesis 37-50. Things worked out for Joseph and with God's all-loving result. The hate of Joseph's brothers did not, really, decide or control things. But things came out according to God's intentions.

Many lives were saved, plus Joseph got reconciled with his brothers.

So, yes I can see how God . . . who is love . . . destines and therefore controls how things go for us in our lives.

But . . . also . . . we have Romans 8:29 >

"For whom He foreknew, He also predestined to be conformed to the image of His Son, that He might be the firstborn among many brethren." (Romans 8:29)

So, our Heavenly Father has destined His children to become like Jesus. This predestination goes beyond what becomes only of an individual, in one's life or where he or she will spend eternity. This has to do with what is predestined for Our Father and Jesus. So, for us who will be included in this, there is more involved than simply if we go to Heaven or not.

What brought God to so destine His children? I understand that our Father so dearly treasured His Son, that He wanted to have many children who are pleasing to Him like Jesus is, who can relate in love with our Father the way Jesus relates with our Heavenly Father. So . . . like I have offered > love destined that there will be many who are and who love like Jesus.

And we can see how God in all His creativity of love will not be stopped by any evil and hate. And with Him we succeed in all He is committed to We share with Him in His love destiny, more and more

 

[nonaeroterraqueous]

So, our Heavenly Father has destined His children to become like Jesus. This predestination goes beyond what becomes only of an individual, in one's life or where he or she will spend eternity. This has to do with what is predestined for Our Father and Jesus. So, for us who will be included in this, there is more involved than simply if we go to Heaven or not.

Oh, yes, you're quite right. Destiny encompasses a lot more than just whether we spend eternity in Heaven of Hell.

A serious question --- is it actually possible to believe in predestination and still be a Christian?

Is it possible to believe that God is both omniscient and omnipotent and still be a Christian? I certainly hope so. If God is both, then predestination is inherently true. I would ask the inverse, whether a person can be a Christian while not believing in either one of those attributes of God, wherein his knowledge, though great, is not limitless, nor his strength, though mighty, is not boundless, making him less like God and more like a polytheistic god who happens to be alone.

If of the pantheon of gods one succeeded in eradicating all others, does he cease to be a polytheistic god? Rather, he remains hardly more than an exalted angelic being without equal. Despite being alone, he is hardly God. Until a person grasps God's infinite nature, he cannot understand:

• predestination
• the Trinity
• Total Depravity
• original sin
• the Atonement by Christ's death
• God's omniscience
• God's omnipotence
• God's self-existence
• that God has always existed and always will exist
• God's perfection

All of these things find their roots in the infinite math describing God, and all of them have a paradoxical nature. All of these things are impossible for a finite polytheistic god (though he be the only polytheistic god), but all of these things make perfect sense for an infinite God. There is no such thing as a fraction of infinity. Therefore, one cannot be merely close to accepting the infinite God. One can either accept him or reject him.

Therefore, when one accepts a lesser god (who happens to be called God), I wonder, as you similarly do, whether such a person can really be a Christian. I believe that God is merciful enough to accept our limitation of understanding, and I accept that an average mind cannot grasp the extraordinary, yet is not condemned for it. A person is not damned for failing to grasp the more complex truths. Rather, it is the simple truths that cause him to stumble fatally.

 

[com7fy8]

Is it possible to believe that God is both omniscient and omnipotent and still be a Christian? I certainly hope so. If God is both, then predestination is inherently true.

Well, if TD means God is in all control of the details of our lives, this would mean God is . . . all-controlling.

Being "omnipotent" possibly means almighty . . . all-powerful . . . all-capable. But this definition does not directly say God actually controls all things. You can be powerful and able, and still not control something. And I understand that free will people believe God is almighty and even in control, but He has decided to let humans have their own control of their own wills.

May be TD thinks things work out the way God has destined; and yet he could somehow also understand that each of us has a free will so we can control on our own what we choose and do. People are capable of having beliefs which don't seem to match.

His experience might be telling him how God has things work out in ways humans could not have imagined and arranged. But seminary theory could have him trust that each of us has our own autonomous free will.

So, TD would have to speak for himself about what he means.

 

[JackRT]

I believe that God is merciful enough to accept our limitation of understanding, and I accept that an average mind cannot grasp the extraordinary, yet is not condemned for it. A person is not damned for failing to grasp the more complex truths.

As I too believe. But in view of our finite human understanding and the transcendent nature of God, I wonder if we have speculated well beyond our capacity.