I've read the new testament. What now?

[GreyLeader]

Dear AcornThornpicker,

I am slightly curious how Christians view the worship of a Goddess, if the worship of Her can help promote Christian values in Her follower?

Since Christianity is mono-theistic, we believe that it is pointless because you have placed another deity (who, according to the Bible, doesn't exist) next to God, which is forbidden in the Ten Commandments (Exodus 20:3-5).

You see, as Christians walk with Jesus we should naturally produce good works and what Paul terms "the fruit of the Spirit." They are natural results of a relationship with God. James ties the concept of faith and works closely together in the second chapter of his letter so much to say that faith without works is dead or worthless.

Truth is all relative, and I can't begin to say that I know enough of his teachings and their applications to summarize any absolute status as either Lord or liar. The truth as I see it: I can easily accept that he was divine.

OK, this is the main question that I wanted to ask: What do you think about what Jesus did? Do you believe that He died on the cross as the Gospels record?

Truth is never absolute.

If truth is all relative, then how do you know for sure that your two deities exist? If an atheist and I were to discuss Jesus' nature, and He said that truth is Jesus wasn't God and I said that He is, this has no bearing on the fact that Jesus is God. Jesus is God whether or not the atheist believes He is ... either He is or He is not.

BTW, the above quote to me sounds like an absolute truth.

Of course absolute truth exists, as described above by the Jesus example. This also goes onto the sun and the Earth which orbits it. The Earth has always orbited the sun, even when people thought that it was the other way around. I believe that absolute truth is more or less impossible to know with any degree of certainity unless that absolute truth makes itself known to us by observation (e.g. the Earth orbiting the sun) or by direct revelation (e.g. the Bible).

 

[akasmom]

Some books I have read and really liked:
anything by CS Lewis
"Rumors of Another World" by Philip Yancey
"The Body" and "How Now Shall We Live" by Charles Colson
"the Case For Jesus" "The Case For Faith", and "The Case For a Creator" by Lee Strobels
"Irresistable Revolution" by Shane Claiborne
"God's Politics" by Jim Wallis

you can read Matthew Henry's commentaries at http://bible.crosswalk.com/

and this place has some really good devotionals you should check out www.truthforlife.org

finally, if you haven't already discovered it, www.carm.org is a good apologetics site, as is Ravi Zacharias'

 

[Adstar]

Truth is has never been and will never be relative. Truth is founded on the Will of The God of Abraham. He is the only God that exists.

The exclusivity of the God of Abraham is central to our belief. There are not other Gods but the God of Abraham.


All Praise The Ancient Of Days

 

[dvd_holc]

Fisrt off: Thanks for the recomendations! Next time I go book shopping, I'll try to keep an eye out for them! ^ _ ^

Well, those of you here in the forum seem for the majority to be a lovely bunch! But, I don't really know anyone very well yet (only been here a few days!). In real life... well, I don't know any Christians that I can really go to for spiritual discussion, sadly... Maybe I just need to go make some of my relations more interested in the discussion! ^ _ ^

I call my Goddess, to whom I pray each night, Fortune. It was through some seeking that I discovered Her, and since I've yet to receive a name from Her, I simply call Her 'Fortune' (Fortune as in luck). Her influence includes matters of simple luck, and love. I'm still learning about Her, so I unfortunately can't say much about Her right now...

I go to a Catholic school, so we occasionally have masses. I hold great respect for the religion (and think masses are quite lovely), so I will quietly follow along with most of it, but do not go up for the Eucharist anymore, and instead sit in silent prayer. I have learned that the Eucharist is one of your most sacred traditions, yet some of the students will talk during it, even when gently prompted to be quiet...

I was sitting in the school library, waiting for a free priest for Reconciliation. I'd never really thought it a significant process, and would generally just say the same things like, "fighting with my sister." I was starting to feel a self-calling to be more spiritual, so I prayed to God, and asked for anything, just an ounce of faith to keep me going... I felt nothing, and decided to walk out.
What truth is always depends upon whose perspective it's from. I don't dabble much into Philosophy, but I recall the statement that Truth is never absolute, only relative (and the implications of the statement).

In the Catholic School system, one Catholic Religion course was required every year. We covered the essentials of Christianity, the Sacraments, the commandments, the beattitudes, and several other things. Unfortunately, we never really went into any deep meanings within the Bible, or of any particular verses.

You could probably find some help in the school. There has to be someone who will talk to you about and be a physical witness that you can observe his/her physical actions.

Why do you think that the divine being is a female who influences or participates in luck and love? What are you to this goddess? What do luck do for you? Who do you love? Why does seeming random events seem to have profound effect in your life?

If you look at a table from the top down and I look at the table from bottom up, do our observations entail all of the viewpoints of the table and do our observations overrule the physical the table from existing because we have two different viewpoints? Is truth beyond viewpoints? Is justice beyond the ways we try to justify our actions?

What do you gain by believing your unknown goddess? If you are the male in the relationship and the divine being is a woman then are you the one who rules over the other? Why did you go from asking for God for a demonstration to not believing there is a God to believing there is a Goddess who influences luck and love? Did God actually show up in random events that worked for His purpose and showed you loved at which time you were awakened to the Divine Being but you did not leave your unbelief due to inconvenience of God not showing up the way you choose for Him to show up? Do live by passions reacting to impuses of emotions or do you proactively produce more love and peace in the world because that is what you were made for?

I do suggest that you pick up commentaries to help you go through the bible.

 

[AcornThornpicker]

Since Christianity is mono-theistic, we believe that it is pointless because you have placed another deity (who, according to the Bible, doesn't exist) next to God, which is forbidden in the Ten Commandments (Exodus 20:3-5).

So, from the Christian perspective, is it better for me to pray to God and act in an un-Christian manner, or pray to a (from your perspective) non-existant Deity and act based upon Christian morals?

OK, this is the main question that I wanted to ask: What do you think about what Jesus did? Do you believe that He died on the cross as the Gospels record?

I accept it as historical truth that Jesus died upon the cross. I'm a very small historian, but I recall that there are accounts outside of christianity that Jesus was crucified upon the cross.

If truth is all relative, then how do you know for sure that your two deities exist?

Perhaps I should amend my statement... For the purpose of arguing theology, all truth is relative. This amendment makes little change to the argument, but I felt I should state that. One can become incredibly close to Objective Truth in regards to most physical matters, but all spiritual arguments are based upon Relative Truths.

To actually answer your question: I believe that they exist. They are true to me. However, they are false to you, which I accept. However, as to which of us has objective truth, I cannot say. I can assume that either I'm wrong, or you're wrong, but neither you nor I can provide conclusive proof that can prove either side to the argument.

If an atheist and I were to discuss Jesus' nature, and He said that truth is Jesus wasn't God and I said that He is, this has no bearing on the fact that Jesus is God. Jesus is God whether or not the atheist believes He is ... either He is or He is not. BTW, the above quote to me sounds like an absolute truth.

All of us believe our spiritual path is objectively true. However, nobody can conclusively argue that their spiritual path is objectively true. You can state it, you can believe it, you can try to argue it, you can support yourself, but you can't make it objectively true.

The best you can argue with the statement "Jesus is God" is relative truth. You can give the many people who believe it, you can state the numerous reasons why it makes sense, but you can never state this as "absolute truth." Argue whatever you want, you can't prove that any spiritual path is absolute, Objective Truth.

Of course absolute truth exists, as described above by the Jesus example. This also goes onto the sun and the Earth which orbits it. The Earth has always orbited the sun, even when people thought that it was the other way around. I believe that absolute truth is more or less impossible to know with any degree of certainity unless that absolute truth makes itself known to us by observation (e.g. the Earth orbiting the sun) or by direct revelation (e.g. the Bible).

Paradigm shift simply shows that all truths we accept (relative truths) tend to be proved false, despite us believing that they were absolute truth.

And thank you, GreyLeader, I'm finding this discussion quite interesting! ^ _ ^

Why do you think that the divine being is a female who influences or participates in luck and love? What are you to this goddess? What do luck do for you? Who do you love? Why does seeming random events seem to have profound effect in your life?

Whenever I pray to Her, Her reception has a distinct femininity to it. She can have such an effect upon my life, because She can help me through the rougher parts of my life. I believe myself to be a servant to Her. I love my darling Kimberly, and I like to think that our meeting was more than mere coincidence.

If you look at a table from the top down and I look at the table from bottom up, do our observations entail all of the viewpoints of the table and do our observations overrule the physical the table from existing because we have two different viewpoints? Is truth beyond viewpoints? Is justice beyond the ways we try to justify our actions?

Each of our viewpoints could be objective truth, but I'd certainly say that it is not the entirety of the objective truth. Both are relative truths, so both true relative to where we are. We could both be wrong. We could both be viewing something entirely different than the table, or just one of us.

Justice is completely relative to whoever is judging, so justice is certainly beyond our justifications of actions. Whether we believe justice is present has negligible effect upon another's sense of justice.

What do you gain by believing your unknown goddess? If you are the male in the relationship and the divine being is a woman then are you the one who rules over the other? Why did you go from asking for God for a demonstration to not believing there is a God to believing there is a Goddess who influences luck and love? Did God actually show up in random events that worked for His purpose and showed you loved at which time you were awakened to the Divine Being but you did not leave your unbelief due to inconvenience of God not showing up the way you choose for Him to show up? Do live by passions reacting to impuses of emotions or do you proactively produce more love and peace in the world because that is what you were made for?

By believing in my Goddess, I gain a spiritual guide and one to whom I can always speak. As for my control over Her, I find that comment a little peculiar and just a little insulting. I do not believe either of us has control, but She (the divine being) has great influence upon my life.

My belief that God exists is stronger than ever. However, I don't accept His omnipotence or the statement that there exists no other Deity but Him. Could I be wrong, and could I be perceiving aspects of God? It could be possible, but I don't believe it. I can clearly distinguish within my mind the existance of two seperate Deities. This is relative truth, and I can't even try to argue its objectivity.

Your questions become a little confusing towards the end... However, I believe that I can be more loving now than before.

Edit: Now, while I quite enjoy the discussion and speaking about my Faith, this particular forum is for questions regarding Christianity, and I believe that asking about my Faith is breaking that rule. Thanks for the questions, but I wish to follow the rules of the forums! ^ _ ^

 

[dvd_holc]

We can ask you questions on what you belief but you can't come in here and invite people to have your faith. There is a difference from getting to know you and telling people to believe what you believe. Also, I am not debating with you.

 

[dvd_holc]

Sorry for insulting you.
In the bible, those men who try to be the man in the relationship with God tend to bring the wrath of God.

Why do you feel that God is distantly different resulting in two different individuals?

 

[AcornThornpicker]

We can ask you questions on what you belief but you can't come in here and invite people to have your faith. There is a difference from getting to know you and telling people to believe what you believe. Also, I am not debating with you.

Well, if you believe we're following the rules, I'm fine with it! And I apologise if I have been/am/will be hostile towards you or any others. Faith can generate a fair deal of passion and zeal...

Sorry for insulting you.
In the bible, those men who try to be the man in the relationship with God tend to bring the wrath of God.

It's quite alright! I just found your question incredibly peculiar and wasn't quite sure what kind of information you were trying to elicit.

Ultimately, gender is irrelevant because She is a Deity and I cannot hope to be in control of a Deity!

Why do you feel that God is distantly different resulting in two different individuals?

I personally believe my two Deities are seperate, and different than the Christian God. I am just fiddling around with any kind of clause that could allow both our systems to co-exist. I was just trying to suggest hypothetical situations!

 

[dvd_holc]

Well, if you believe we're following the rules, I'm fine with it! And I apologise if I have been/am/will be hostile towards you or any others. Faith can generate a fair deal of passion and zeal...

It's quite alright! I just found your question incredibly peculiar and wasn't quite sure what kind of information you were trying to elicit.

Ultimately, gender is irrelevant because She is a Deity and I cannot hope to be in control of a Deity!

I personally believe my two Deities are seperate, and different than the Christian God. I am just fiddling around with any kind of clause that could allow both our systems to co-exist. I was just trying to suggest hypothetical situations!

What have you found the "Christian God" to be? What have you found Christ to be?

 

[Godslilgurlalways]

Hello!

I've been reading the New Testament (didn't have the Old Testament) for the past 8 months, 1 chapter per night. I've finally finished revelations, and I'm wondering what advice you might have for where to go now? Should I re-read the New Testament? Read the Old Testament (if i can get my hands on one)? Or is there any other book I should look at?

I personally think it might be better to start with the new testmant, it's better to wait and read Revaltions(b/c it will take time to understand what is really going on in it)

I think you need to decide do you beleive it, Do you believe in God do you want to have a realtionship with him, do you want to be saved? B/c it is important once after you get saved and you read it again you will pick up on more things and of cousre the spirit will be helping you and all

 

[AcornThornpicker]

I think you need to decide do you beleive it, Do you believe in God do you want to have a realtionship with him, do you want to be saved? B/c it is important once after you get saved and you read it again you will pick up on more things and of cousre the spirit will be helping you and all

I've read the Bible in the interest of trying to learn more about Christianity, but have no plans of conversion.

What have you found the "Christian God" to be? What have you found Christ to be?

I believe both can be excellent guides to improving oneself! However, I've found that Christian Theology is just one spiritual path among many. I've personally decided that God and Christ are not the guides for me.

 

[The Virginian]

Hello!

I've been reading the New Testament (didn't have the Old Testament) for the past 8 months, 1 chapter per night. I've finally finished revelations, and I'm wondering what advice you might have for where to go now? Should I re-read the New Testament? Read the Old Testament (if i can get my hands on one)? Or is there any other book I should look at?

I've been doing other things for the past few days, so I'm not up to speed on your ost, and the subseequent replies.

Reading of the Old Testament is always a great idea; for it will shed much light upon your understanding of the texts you've read in the New Testament. To that end a reputible history of both Testaments will enrich your understanding even further. All of this however is for naught if there's no illumination by the Holy Spirit of God in your reading, or if the primary motive behind the reading is knowledge for knowledge sake. Knowledge with apppilication is wisdom!

 

[dvd_holc]

I've read the Bible in the interest of trying to learn more about Christianity, but have no plans of conversion.

I believe both can be excellent guides to improving oneself! However, I've found that Christian Theology is just one spiritual path among many. I've personally decided that God and Christ are not the guides for me.

What is it about God and Christ? What is about the theology? What is about the lifestyle? Of those who take Christianity seriously, what do we do that has turn it off to you?

 

[AcornThornpicker]

What is it about God and Christ? What is about the theology? What is about the lifestyle? Of those who take Christianity seriously, what do we do that has turn it off to you?

"I don't like crows because I find crows distasteful. I just like ravens better."

Christianity has done little to really "turn me off", its just that I am quite satisfied with my current religion!

If I have to name one negative thing, it has probably just been how many Christian don't follow Christain teachings! Primarily, teenagers at my school say their Christian simply because everyone else visible is, without really having any faith, and thus acting quite un-Christian...

 

[dvd_holc]

"I don't like crows because I find crows distasteful. I just like ravens better."

Christianity has done little to really "turn me off", its just that I am quite satisfied with my current religion!

If I have to name one negative thing, it has probably just been how many Christian don't follow Christain teachings! Primarily, teenagers at my school say their Christian simply because everyone else visible is, without really having any faith, and thus acting quite un-Christian...

Ok, good day to you.

 

[ChasingADream]

Blessings to you! How wonderful that you're interested in scripture!

 

[KarrieTex]

Hello!

I've been reading the New Testament (didn't have the Old Testament) for the past 8 months, 1 chapter per night. I've finally finished revelations, and I'm wondering what advice you might have for where to go now? Should I re-read the New Testament? Read the Old Testament (if i can get my hands on one)? Or is there any other book I should look at?

I would have to agree with everyone else that you need to read the OT now. The Ot is the foundation for why Christ came. It is also important because Christ fulfilled the prohpecy and the Law of the OT.

I would also suggest that you find a person in your life who believes in and understands the Bible. There will be just as many or more hard questions to be answered.

Blessings

 

[Radagast]

Hello!

I've been reading the New Testament (didn't have the Old Testament) for the past 8 months, 1 chapter per night. I've finally finished revelations, and I'm wondering what advice you might have for where to go now? Should I re-read the New Testament? Read the Old Testament (if i can get my hands on one)? Or is there any other book I should look at?

I always recommend the (nonfiction) writings of C.S.Lewis at this point.

 

[chilehed]

...I am not so certain that He is everything most Christians are saying He is, I am merely convinced that He is there, and He exists. In regards to His omnipotence (great power, sure, I'll say that), I can't say I personally can agree with that, being a Polytheist.

Perhaps it would be helpful if you were to read Summa Contra Gentiles, by St. Thomas Aquinas. Better yet, Peter Kreeft wrote a condensed summary of it entitled "A Shorter Summa: The Essential Philosophical Passages of Saint Thomas Aquinas' Summa Theologica". (the English translation of the original Latin is a real bear to read):
http://www.amazon.com/Shorter-Summa...ef=sr_1_9/102-3009567-4832143?ie=UTF8&s=books


Also, I second the suggestion to read the Early Church Fathers: Clement of Rome, Ignatius of Antioch, Irenaeus of Lyons.

...Truth is all relative, and I can't begin to say that I know enough of his teachings and their applications to summarize any absolute status as either Lord or liar....-A.T.

I've never been able to understand statements like "truth is relative", because they disprove themselves. I've had that conversation with pantheists before, and I have to admit that the technical details of their theology baffled me. Made me feel like Alice at the teaparty...

Lewis's point is that Jesus very clearly claimed to be the omnipotent, omnipresent, omniscient being that you aren't sure exists. Given that,there are only two alternatives: either Jesus was (is) that being, or he wasn't. If he wasn't, then Jesus either knew it or did not. If Jesus knew that he was not God and claimed to be anyway, then he was a liar. If he really believed it and was wrong, then he was a lunatic. And if he beleived it, and really was, then he's Lord of the universe.

...If I have to name one negative thing, it has probably just been how many Christian don't follow Christain teachings!

I understand. But remember, the question is not whether or not people live up to what they know is right, the question is "is what they know is right true"!

 

[tarebo12]

It seems that you are trying to find God through reading the Bible. I am glad you are searching for Him that way. He gave us His Holy Spirit when Jesus went away, to live in us and to never leave but to teach us all things, to comfort us, to give up power over the devil, etc. Learn about Him. Ask Him to fill you with His presence. Thats what you really need.