I've made a decision

[LogosRhema]

Speaking from the viewpoint of knowing some very overweight people, and being pretty overweight myself, we know we're fat. We don't need you telling us.

In fact, most overweight people struggle with not feeling bitterness towards the people they run into on a daily basis who tell them they need to lose weight, or leave articles on the table with a weight loss plan. It gets a wee bit old after awhile. I'm glad she responded with so much grace. It speaks much for her character. However, I'm having a difficult time keeping my mouth shut this morning.

I understand. I'm the kind of person that if there is something in my life that I don't like, I do something about it. I was just taking this approach and asking her, why not try to do something? Of course, said in love. You can't agree with me by doing nothing will do anyone any good now will it? Now she's explained things to me and I'm no fool... modern medicine... has many draw backs, which explains everything. You didn't see me follow up and say "that's no excuse!" or something arrogant.

Now I have enough info to pray that her condition can be healed and she can get off those meds! So she may at least walk without a cane!!! I bet that sucks. There's always hope though! Our God is just too good!

 

[desmalia]

I understand. I'm the kind of person that if there is something in my life that I don't like, I do something about it. I was just taking this approach and asking her, why not try to do something? Of course, said in love. You can't agree with me by doing nothing will do anyone any good now will it? Now she's explained things to me and I'm no fool... modern medicine... has many draw backs, which explains everything. You didn't see me follow up and say "that's no excuse!" or something arrogant.

Now I have enough info to pray that her condition can be healed and she can get off those meds! So she may at least walk without a cane!!! I bet that sucks. There's always hope though! Our God is just too good!

I understand where you're coming from. You're a guy and you see a problem and an obvious solution to it. So it seems perfectly logical to simply point it out. But in truth, it's not.

I assume you've never had to struggle with your weight, so you can't possibly know the emotions and the stigma that are attached to it. Let me try to explain a little. I don't do this because of your comments to LBF, as she's clearly taken it in stride and chosen not to be offended, which is wonderful. And I know that you're not trying to be offensive, and I'm glad that you two are not at odds over this.

But in such cases, tact is much more important than you probably realize. So here's the deal. Not one overweight person on the face of the earth is unaware of their need to lose weight. In fact it generally is something that consumes their thoughts on a regular basis every day, without fail. (Ever seen that commercial about weight loss where it's represented as a ball and chain a person has to drag behind them everywhere they go in the day? That's a really good illustration). It's brutal on the self esteem. So telling an overweight person that they should lose weight is kinda like telling a drowning person that maybe they should start swimming. It's stating the glaringly obvious so someone who knows it even better than you do. But telling someone to lose weight is not always the most logical thing. You'll also find that most people who are overweight without any significant medical reason for it (thyroid problems, meds, etc.) have lost weight at some point, and probably several times, and quite a bit. But keeping it off is a life-long battle that is never simply "conquored". So imagine you run into someone who has worked so hard, cut their calories down to a point where they're starving themselves, working out like crazy every day, and they've eventually burned out and begun to gain again. And then you wander into their lives and innocently suggest "hey, you should lose some weight". Not such a good plan. Same goes for people with medical issues. My thyroid doesn't work properly, so I'm stuck at the weight I'm at no matter what I do. It's not so bad that my health is at risk. But it's crappy none-the-less. But frankly, I don't want to have to explain that to every thin person who get's a bright idea to share with me.

I don't mean to derail LBF's thread. I just want to try and help you understand so that you can avoid this pitfall in the future. In your life, you're likely to encounter many overweight people. I hope that you can learn at a younger age to have compassion and understanding for this very difficult situation, both so that you can effectively minister to people and so that you don't end up getting beat up by someone who is extra-sensitive to the issue.

Now.... back to the tread!
LBF, it sounds like you are doing very well!
And the wedding is just around the corner, how exciting!

 

[LovebirdsFlying]

OK, need to say something here.

Logos, your original broaching of the subject of weight *did* in fact cheese me off. I controlled it because I saw that you didn't intend to. But asking an overweight person who fears discrimination, "Why don't you just lose weight?" evokes a response of "No kidding! I didn't know I was fat until you brought it to my attention, and in all my over 40 years I've never even *thought* of trying to lose weight!"

If people only knew how many attempts I have in fact made....

Your prayers for healing are welcome. I would love to no longer need a cane. (It was a car accident, Alpine. Messed up my hips and lower spine.) I also have a chronic depressive illness and PTSD from severe childhood abuse. Those things can be overcome. And I am an insulin-dependent diabetic. It's the insulin, says my doctor, that causes me to retain and gain weight, no matter how little I eat or how much I try to exercise. I am doing well not to gain weight, never mind losing it.

I wouldn't mind having *all* of these conditions gone, if God so wills.

Need to leave now, prior appointments, but I'll be back.

 

[Alpine]

Your prayers for healing are welcome. I would love to no longer need a cane. (It was a car accident, Alpine. Messed up my hips and lower spine.) I also have a chronic depressive illness and PTSD from severe childhood abuse. Those things can be overcome. And I am an insulin-dependent diabetic. It's the insulin, says my doctor, that causes me to retain and gain weight, no matter how little I eat or how much I try to exercise. I am doing well not to gain weight, never mind losing it.

The reason I asked is I have a form of muscular dystrophy. So, I know how difficult it can be to have a disability, and especially when trying to get a job, because your options are very limited.

 

[LogosRhema]

I think, in the end, we all can relate with each others struggles. Be it overweight (if you consider this as such), porno, cursing, adultery, etc, etc. I can say any struggle that I have, in the way you described I can relate to, not exactly, but the principle remains the same... our struggles consume us daily. Thanks to Jesus, He promises to take our worldly worries and struggles as long as we give them to Him. His burden truly is light if we truly take it upon ourselves.

Hehe, cheesed you off. I'm one to point out the obvious aren't I? Well I do apologize for cheesing you off and thanks for the initiative to not go off on me. Don't know how'd I react if someone pointed an obvious struggle of my own, I do hope it'd be in the same way.

 

[LovebirdsFlying]

A lot of prayer is being said about this situation.

I had a very rough night. Couldn't get to sleep. Uncomfortable, not feeling good, cats being noisy, too cold, all of those, it seemed there was a conspiracy going on to keep me from getting a good night's sleep. Because this afternoon, in an hour and a half, I start the return-to-work program. *I* think it's an enemy attack, trying to keep me from improving myself and my situation. I am still sleepy and only half able to think. But I'm not going to let the enemy win, and cancel this. I am going to see it through. I obviously need divine help. If I rely only on my own strength, I'm going to fail. Again.

As I often have to remind myself, what happened before is another time and another place, and just because it's gone a certain way before doesn't mean it will go that way again. I know from experience how these programs work. My son-in-law (who got a job, by the way, that he starts tomorrow) had to sit through "how to complete a job application." He felt that to be a waste of time, when he could be out there actually completing job applications. But, the food stamp office required it. As for my program, "how to complete a job application" is among the more *advanced* topics. It starts with "how to dress properly for a job," "how to speak properly," and what boils down to "how to be civilized." It is meant for people with all kinds of disabilites and must speak to the lowest common denominator. Which means higher-functioning people have to sit through basic things like this.

I remember one time, going through Vocational Rehab (didn't complete it that time) when I went to one of these classes. The women evaluating my strengths and weaknesses wrote on my record that I needed to improve personal hygiene. When I asked them for specifics, I didn't hear anything about body odor or stained clothes or anything like that. They started talking about professional hairdos and makeup. That's not hygiene, and the fact that it was only a matter of hair and makeup tells me they wouldn't have given a man the same rating for the same amount of effort. It goes to show that even women hold other women to a double standard--but I theorize that in fact women are tougher on each other. Had my evaluators been men, I'm thinking they wouldn't have had a complaint. My guess is that women do all that dolling up to impress other women; men don't care. Anyone have any thoughts there?

The director of this program I'm starting is also a woman, but as I said, it's another time and another place. I'm running an experiment. I'm dressing in clean clothes that go together, but are casual. My hair is brushed but down, not put up in some style. No makeup. No jewelry except my watch and my engagement ring. Clean and neat but not "business professional." Just like then. Exactly the same amount of effort. Let's see if they dock me on hygiene this time.

And the discussion on weight gives me an idea. As has been pointed out, we are painfully aware that we are overweight. In my case, I think I tend to be very self-conscious about it and more focused on it than someone else might be. I know that when I look at other women who wear the same size I do, they don't look *fat* to me, as I look to myself.

So, while praying about it, the idea came to me--I'll pretend I don't know I'm overweight. I won't think about it, bring it up, or call attention to it in any way. I'll act as if I don't expect to be treated differently because of it, as if I never have been. And see if there is any change.

 

[desmalia]

A lot of prayer is being said about this situation.

I had a very rough night. Couldn't get to sleep. Uncomfortable, not feeling good, cats being noisy, too cold, all of those, it seemed there was a conspiracy going on to keep me from getting a good night's sleep. Because this afternoon, in an hour and a half, I start the return-to-work program. *I* think it's an enemy attack, trying to keep me from improving myself and my situation. I am still sleepy and only half able to think. But I'm not going to let the enemy win, and cancel this. I am going to see it through. I obviously need divine help. If I rely only on my own strength, I'm going to fail. Again.

Ah. In my whole life I've never had a good night's sleep the night before I start something new. In fact I've even have to move to a new city the day before I started new, very challenging jobs TWICE. Talk about exhausted! The first time that happened my trainer actually sent me home a few hours early because I looked so rough and she knew I couldn't possibly retain any more information. Very kind of her. The second time it happened I just had to struggle through.

Praying for you.

As I often have to remind myself, what happened before is another time and another place, and just because it's gone a certain way before doesn't mean it will go that way again. I know from experience how these programs work. My son-in-law (who got a job, by the way, that he starts tomorrow) had to sit through "how to complete a job application." He felt that to be a waste of time, when he could be out there actually completing job applications. But, the food stamp office required it. As for my program, "how to complete a job application" is among the more *advanced* topics. It starts with "how to dress properly for a job," "how to speak properly," and what boils down to "how to be civilized." It is meant for people with all kinds of disabilites and must speak to the lowest common denominator. Which means higher-functioning people have to sit through basic things like this.

I remember one time, going through Vocational Rehab (didn't complete it that time) when I went to one of these classes. The women evaluating my strengths and weaknesses wrote on my record that I needed to improve personal hygiene. When I asked them for specifics, I didn't hear anything about body odor or stained clothes or anything like that. They started talking about professional hairdos and makeup. That's not hygiene, and the fact that it was only a matter of hair and makeup tells me they wouldn't have given a man the same rating for the same amount of effort. It goes to show that even women hold other women to a double standard--but I theorize that in fact women are tougher on each other. Had my evaluators been men, I'm thinking they wouldn't have had a complaint. My guess is that women do all that dolling up to impress other women; men don't care. Anyone have any thoughts there?

The director of this program I'm starting is also a woman, but as I said, it's another time and another place. I'm running an experiment. I'm dressing in clean clothes that go together, but are casual. My hair is brushed but down, not put up in some style. No makeup. No jewelry except my watch and my engagement ring. Clean and neat but not "business professional." Just like then. Exactly the same amount of effort. Let's see if they dock me on hygiene this time.

Yes, I agree women are much harder on each other than men are on women generally. But you're right - this is new opportunity and it's best to see it as that and not assume it will got the same as last time.

And the discussion on weight gives me an idea. As has been pointed out, we are painfully aware that we are overweight. In my case, I think I tend to be very self-conscious about it and more focused on it than someone else might be. I know that when I look at other women who wear the same size I do, they don't look *fat* to me, as I look to myself.

So, while praying about it, the idea came to me--I'll pretend I don't know I'm overweight. I won't think about it, bring it up, or call attention to it in any way. I'll act as if I don't expect to be treated differently because of it, as if I never have been. And see if there is any change.

I think this is a great plan. They'll see that as a positive attitude and professionalism.

 

[LovebirdsFlying]

Results of the day:

I needn't have worried about the facilitator's impression of me. She looked to be about my age, she was dressed in a similar style of clothes as mine, and she was very nearly the same size! On top of this, she wasn't walking much better than I do. She does not use a cane but has a noticeable difficulty. She did mention that she was having some pain, and the fact that she said it so casually tells me it's chronic.

So--not likely I'll be disrespected on the basis of size, age, or disability.

It's a rotating weekly class. You jump in at any point, when there's an opening, and when you complete all of the topics, you graduate and make an opening for the next client. My past experience was correct, when it told me what to expect about the average level of intellect in the class. I hope it doesn't sound boastful; I mean it to be only a clinical observation, but I was expecting to be among the higher-functioning clients in attendance, and I was.

Today's topic was problem-solving. Some might be surprised at the fact that there are grown people who, after two hours of discussion, can't grasp: Identify the problem. Think of possible solutions. Try one. See if it worked. If it didn't, do something else. In the past I have had a lot of difficulty coping, when I'm way beyond something, and everyone else is still trying to get a handle on it. When I'm not doing well, one of my very first symptoms is a total intolerance of other people's symptoms. In this case, not doing well myself, I would be grumbling out loud about how slow everyone is, can't we get on with it, I've already been to kindergarten, didn't we cover this stuff already? But I am not going to be like that. I am going to sit through every boring session, without complaint, because you know, there are things about work that are boring too. It would be good discipline and preparation.

Of course, I will lose my Medicaid coverage when Mike and I get married. It is not known yet whether I will still be able to continue this program. If not, I am told I can go through many of the same resources without a referral, Medicaid or not.

The ultimate goal is the assisted job search. If they already know in advance that they are hiring a disabled person working through a program to become employed, I won't have to explain that gap in my job history by myself. I guess I *could,* but I don't want to have to.

I mentioned not feeling good--I'm still not. Again as an exercise, because sometimes you still have to work when you don't feel well, I sat through the class, but then went directly from there to the ER. I'd rather not divulge the nature of the problem, since it is quite personal, but it involves some pretty serious pain. I'm in the middle of solving it, but of course no treatment will have had time to take effect yet.