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I've Been Set Free

UberLutheran

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OT law no longer applies?

And avoiding sin isn't the same as following his structured design and command in botht the OT and NT.

You can't cherry-pick, NewGuy.

If Old Testament law still applies, then ALL of the Old Testament Law applies and we are justified by the Law (not by grace, through faith).

If the Old Testament law has been negated by the life, death and resurrection of Christ, then ALL of the Old Testament Law has been negated and we are justified by grace, through faith.

You can't have it both ways. Paul is very explicit about that in Galatians. Read it.
 
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ReformedChapin

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You can't cherry-pick, NewGuy.

If Old Testament law still applies, then ALL of the Old Testament Law applies and we are justified by the Law (not by grace, through faith).

If the Old Testament law has been negated by the life, death and resurrection of Christ, then ALL of the Old Testament Law has been negated and we are justified by grace, through faith.

You can't have it both ways. Paul is very explicit about that in Galatians. Read it.
I have read it and you are misunderstanding it's concept. Not only that but the NT is clear that homosexuality is wrong so that itself invalidates your argument.
 
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UberLutheran

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I have read it and you are misunderstanding it's concept. Not only that but the NT is clear that homosexuality is wrong so that itself invalidates your argument.

Noooooooo... once again (why do we have to keep going through this?), ritual temple prostitution and pederasty are wrong.

The Gentiles (who obviously were not Jewish) engaged in ritual temple prostitution to appease the gods to bring about favorable weather for their crops. (Read your Biblical history, NewGuy.)

Some of these prostitutes included young boys and girls who had been set apart exclusively for the purpose of temple prostitution.

Paul is condemning people who have sex with young children.

Read the passage in context, NewGuy. "Context" means reading the passage in the historical, cultural, social, religious and linguistic context of the period where it was written. It doesn't mean one gets to "pick and choose" what the passage means or to pick unrelated passages and stick them together to try to prove some Scriptural "point".
 
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Chie

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No longer do I have stomach or anxiety problems that were due to the anti-gay doctrine still present in many Conservative Christian Churches.
I just got a job yesterday making $40 an/hour, plus a car, and new computer.
My family and friends see a new me...they see a new person, and in a good way...they have said it in a positive way.


Let this be a lesson to all who want to be set free from anti-gay doctrine, you can.
Jesus will heal you and help you.
450 different vertebrate species born gay, bi, lesbian and transgender.
God isn't a cookie cutter God, He makes people differently.

Discuss, debate!
well if you liked women and I wasn't married , I ask ya out on a date.:) 40 bucks an hour, man , thinking of what you could buy me and where I wanna go eat. ;)
Congrats on the blessings from God..
 
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ReformedChapin

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Noooooooo... once again (why do we have to keep going through this?), ritual temple prostitution and pederasty are wrong.

The Gentiles (who obviously were not Jewish) engaged in ritual temple prostitution to appease the gods to bring about favorable weather for their crops. (Read your Biblical history, NewGuy.)

Some of these prostitutes included young boys and girls who had been set apart exclusively for the purpose of temple prostitution.

Paul is condemning people who have sex with young children.

Read the passage in context, NewGuy. "Context" means reading the passage in the historical, cultural, social, religious and linguistic context of the period where it was written. It doesn't mean one gets to "pick and choose" what the passage means or to pick unrelated passages and stick them together to try to prove some Scriptural "point".
AGAIN, I have read it context, it clear points to homosexuality. Sorry, I don't like perverting the scriptures like you do.
 
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Der Alte

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Noooooooo... once again (why do we have to keep going through this?), ritual temple prostitution and pederasty are wrong.

The Gentiles (who obviously were not Jewish) engaged in ritual temple prostitution to appease the gods to bring about favorable weather for their crops. (Read your Biblical history, NewGuy.)

You have to keep going through it because it is totally FALSE and it has been proven by historical evidence. You make a big deal about "Biblical history," etc, but most of the people, including YOU, making this false claim have deliberately ignored the Biblical history.
Talmud -- Sanhedrin 54a

MISHNAH. HE WHO COMMITS SODOMY WITH A MALE OR A BEAST, AND A WOMAN THAT COMMITS BESTIALITY ARE STONED
. . . . Our Rabbis taught: [If a man lieth also with mankind, as the lyings of a woman,29 both of them have committed on abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them,]. . .

Sanhedrin 54b

This teaches the punishment: whence do we derive the formal prohibition? — From the verse, Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind: it is an abomination.1 From this we learn the formal prohibition for him who lies [with a male]: whence do we know a formal prohibition for the person who permits himself thus to be abused? — Scripture saith: There shall be no sodomite of the sons of Israel:2 and it is further said, . . .

Now, he who [actively] commits pederasty, and also [passively] permits himself to be thus abused — R. Abbahu said: On R. Ishmael's view, he is liable to two penalties, one [for the injunction] derived from thou shalt not lie with mankind, and the other for [violating the prohibition,] There shall not be a Sodomite of the sons of Israel. . . .

for there shall be no Sodomite applies to sodomy with mankind.13 . . .

He who submits both to pederasty and to bestiality — R. Abbahu said: On R. Akiba's view, he incurs two penalties; one for thou shalt not lie [with mankind], and the other for thou shalt not lie [with any beast]. But on R. Ishmael's view, he incurs only one punishment, both offences being derived from the single verse, There shall be no Sodomite.19 . . .

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Jewish Encyclopedia - Dog

- The dog being an unclean animal, "the breaking of a dog's neck," mentioned as a sacrificial rite in Isa. lxvi. 3 (compare Ex. xiii. 13), indicates an ancient Canaanite practise (see W. R. Smith, "Rel. of Sem." p. 273). The shamelessness of the dog in regard to sexual life gave rise to the name ("dog") for the class of priests in the service of Astarte who practised sodomy ("kedeshim," called also by the Greeks &#954;&#965;&#957;&#945;&#943;&#948;&#959;&#953;, Deut. xxiii. 19 [A. V. 18]; compare ib. 18 [17] and Rev. xxii. 15; see Driver ad loc.), though as the regular name of priests attached to the temple of Ashtoret at Larnaca has been found on the monuments (see "C. I. S." i., No. 86).

http://www.jewishencyclopedia.com/view.jsp?artid=415&letter=D&search=sodomy

Jewish Encyclopedia - Chastity
(e) The unnatural crimes against chastity, sodomy and pederasty, prevalent in heathendom, were strictly prohibited (Lev. xviii. 22, 23; xx. 13, 15, 16; Deut. xxvii. 21).

http://www.jewishencyclopedia.com/view.jsp?artid=386&letter=C&search=sodomy

Jewish Encyclopedia - DIDACHE -

Dependence upon Jewish Custom.


2: "Thou shalt not commit adultery" (Ex. xx. 14). (This includes: "Thou shalt not commit sodomy nor fornication.") "Thou shalt not steal" (Ex. xx. 15). . . . "Thou shalt not use witchcraft nor practise sorcery" (Ex. xxii. 18; Lev. xix. 26). (This belongs obviously to the eliminated first part comprising the duties toward God.) "Thou shalt not procure abortion, nor shalt thou kill the new-born child" (compare Wisdom xii. 5). (This is the amplification of Ex. xx. 13, and belongs to verse 1.) "Thou shalt not covet thy neighbor's goods" (Ex. xx. 17; see verse 6).

http://www.jewishencyclopedia.com/view.jsp?artid=341&letter=D&search=sodomy

Jewish Encyclopedia - Crime

On the analogy of this Biblical case the Rabbis decide several others (see Burglary). In three cases the person on the point of committing a crime may be killed: where he pursues a neighbor in order to kill him; where he pursues a male to commit sodomy;

http://www.jewishencyclopedia.com/view.jsp?artid=301&letter=L&search=sodomy

Jewish Encyclopedia - COMMANDMENTS, THE 613: 3347-53.

Adultery, sodomy, etc. Lev. Xviii. 7, 14, 20, 22, 23.

http://www.jewishencyclopedia.com/view.jsp?artid=689&letter=C&search=sodomy

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The early church interpreted [size=+1]&#945;&#961;&#963;&#949;&#957;&#959;&#954;&#959;&#953;&#964;&#951;&#962;[/size] as “sodomy,” “filth of sodomy,” lawless lust, “lust,” “impurity,” “works of the flesh,” “carnal,” “lawless intercourse,” “shameless,” “burning with insane love for boys,” “licentiousness,” “co-habitors with males,” “lusters after mankind”, etc. The above quoted from; Polycarp, 65 - 155 AD; Irenaeus, 120-202 AD; Theophilus, 115 - 181 AD; Clement of Alexandria, 153 - 217; Tertullian, 145-220 AD; Cyprian, 200-258 AD; and Origen, 185-254 AD. Note the dates of these writings extend from ca. 85 AD through 258 AD.

Epistle of Polycarp [Disciple of John] to the Philippians Chapter V.-The Duties of Deacons, Youths, and Virgins. [65 - 155 AD]

They must not be slanderers, double-tongued, or lovers of money, but temperate in all things, compassionate, industrious, walking according to the truth of the Lord, who was the servant of all. If we please Him in this present world, we shall receive also the future world, according as He has promised to us that He will raise us again from the dead, and that if we live worthily of Him, "we shall also reign together with Him," provided only we believe. In like manner, let the young men also be blameless in all things, being especially careful to preserve purity, and keeping themselves in, as with a bridle, from every kind of evil. For it is well that they should be cut off from the lusts that are in the world, since "every lust warreth against the spirit; " and "neither fornicators, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind, shall inherit the kingdom of God," nor those who do things inconsistent and unbecoming. Wherefore, it is needful to abstain from all these things, being subject to the presbyters and deacons, as unto God and Christ. The virgins also must walk in a blameless and pure conscience.

Irenaeus [Disciple of Polycarp]Against Heresies Book V [120-202 AD]

As, therefore, he who has gone forward to the better things, and has brought forth the fruit of the Spirit, is saved altogether because of the communion of the Spirit; so also he who has continued in the aforesaid works of the flesh, being truly reckoned as carnal, because he did not receive the Spirit of God, shall not have power to inherit the kingdom of heaven. As, again, the same apostle testifies, saying to the Corinthians, "Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not err," he says: "neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind, nor thieves, nor covetous, nor revilers, nor rapacious persons, shall inherit the kingdom of God. And these ye indeed have been; but ye have been washed, but ye have been sanctified, but ye have been justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ, and in the Spirit of our God." He shows in the clearest manner through what things it is that man goes to destruction, if he has continued to live after the flesh; and then, on the other hand, [he points out] through what things he is saved. Now he says that the things which save are the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, and the Spirit of our God.

Since, therefore, in that passage he recounts those works of the flesh which are without the Spirit, which bring death [upon their doers], he exclaimed at the end of his Epistle, in accordance with what he had already declared, "And as we have borne the image of him who is of the earth, we shall also bear the image of Him who is from heaven. For this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God."

Theophilus to Autolycus Book III [115 - 181 AD]
Chapter VI.-Other Opinions of the Philosophers.


And regarding lawless conduct, those who have blindly wandered into the choir of philosophy have, almost to a man, spoken with one voice. Certainly Plato, to mention him first who seems to have been the most respectable philosopher among them, expressly, as it were, legislates in his first book,5 entitled The Republic, that the wives of all be common, using the precedent of the son6 of Jupiter and the lawgiver of the Cretans, in order that under this pretext there might be an abundant offspring from the best persons, and that those who were worn with toil might be comforted by such intercourse.7 And Epicurus himself, too, as well as teaching atheism, teaches along with it incest with mothers and sisters, and this in transgression of the laws which forbid it; for Solon distinctly legislated regarding this, in order that from a married parent children might lawfully spring, that they might not be born of adultery, so that no one should honour as his father him who was not his father, or dishonour him who was really his father, through ignorance that he was so. And these things the other laws of the Romans and Greeks also prohibit. Why, then, do Epicurus and the Stoics teach incest and sodomy, with which doctrines they have filled libraries, so that from boyhood this lawless intercourse is learned? And why should I further spend time on them, since even of those they call gods they relate similar things?

Clement of Alexandria The Instructor. [Paedagogus.] Book III [153 - 217 AD]

Such images of divine wisdom are many; but I shall mention one instance, and expound it in a few words. The fate of the Sodomites was judgment to those who had done wrong, instruction to those who hear. The Sodomites having, through much luxury, fallen into uncleanness, practising adultery shamelessly, and burning with insane love for boys; the All-seeing Word, whose notice those who commit impieties cannot escape, cast His eye on them. Nor did the sleepless guard of humanity observe their licentiousness in silence; but dissuading us from the imitation of them, and training us up to His own temperance, and falling on some sinners, lest lust being unavenged, should break loose from all the restraints of fear, ordered Sodom to be burned, pouring forth a little of the sagacious fire on licentiousness; lest lust, through want of punishment, should throw wide the gates to those that were rushing into voluptuousness. Accordingly, the just punishment of the Sodomites became to men an image of the salvation which is well calculated for men. For those who have not committed like sins with those who are punished, will never receive a like punishment. By guarding against sinning, we guard against suffering.

Tertullian On Modesty [145-220 AD]
Chapter XVI.-General Consistency of the Apostle.


Come, now; who in the world has (ever) redintegrated one who has been "marred" by God (that is, delivered to Satan with a view to destruction of the flesh), after subjoining for that reason, "Let none seduce himself; " that is, let none presume that one "marred" by God can possibly be redintegrated anew? Just as, again, among all other crimes-nay, even before all others-when affirming that "adulterers, and fornicators, and effeminates, and co-habitors with males, will not attain the kingdom of God," he premised, "Do not err" -to wit, if you think they will attain it.

Cyprian Treatise XII Three Books of Testimonies Against the Jews [200-258 AD]

65.
That all sins are put away in baptism.
In the first Epistle of Paul to the Corinthians: "Neither fornicators, nor those who serve idols, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor the lusters after mankind, nor thieves, nor cheaters, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor robbers, shall obtain the kingdom of God. And these things indeed ye were: but ye are washed, but ye are sanctified in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, and in the Spirit of our God."

Origen Against Celsus Book 8 [185-254 AD]

and that they often exhibit in their character a high degree of gravity, of purity, and
integrity; while those who call themselves wise have despised these virtues, and have wallowed in the filth of sodomy, in lawless lust, “men with men working that which is unseemly.”

Some of these prostitutes included young boys and girls who had been set apart exclusively for the purpose of temple prostitution.

No evidence, no support! No substantiation! Nothing but assumptions and presuppositions.

Paul is condemning people who have sex with young children.

Read the passage in context, NewGuy. "Context" means reading the passage in the historical, cultural, social, religious and linguistic context of the period where it was written. It doesn't mean one gets to "pick and choose" what the passage means or to pick unrelated passages and stick them together to try to prove some Scriptural "point".

I would suggest that you read the passage in the historical, cultural, social, religious and linguistic context of the period where it was written, cited above, NOT your biases, assumptions and presuppositions.

Note, in all the citations listed NOT once is so-called temple prostitution ever even so much as mentioned
 
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B

BigBadWlf

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You can't cherry-pick, NewGuy.

If Old Testament law still applies, then ALL of the Old Testament Law applies and we are justified by the Law (not by grace, through faith).

If the Old Testament law has been negated by the life, death and resurrection of Christ, then ALL of the Old Testament Law has been negated and we are justified by grace, through faith.

You can't have it both ways. Paul is very explicit about that in Galatians. Read it.
True…yet so many people try.
 
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UnitedInChrist

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No longer do I have stomach or anxiety problems that were due to the anti-gay doctrine still present in many Conservative Christian Churches.
I just got a job yesterday making $40 an/hour, plus a car, and new computer.
My family and friends see a new me...they see a new person, and in a good way...they have said it in a positive way.


Let this be a lesson to all who want to be set free from anti-gay doctrine, you can.
Jesus will heal you and help you.
450 different vertebrate species born gay, bi, lesbian and transgender.
God isn't a cookie cutter God, He makes people differently.

Discuss, debate!
Congratulations and many more blessings to you!!! I was set free awhile back when I looked at where my impressions were coming from....hypocrites. When I looked into myself and my personal relationship with God...it all came together, and the blessings still are coming. It's been a great relief to be set fee. Anxiety medication has been long gone. I can't remember the last time I had panic walking into a church. It is the absolute best to get to this point and just know in your heart of hearts...ur on the right path to God.
 
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SwordOfGod

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PeaceLover02 vbmenu_register("postmenu_33799180", true); , you may preach to us when you have made a vow to God to be chaste for the rest of your life based on (very) shiftly biblical logic.

God bless you and your family!!!

The LORD God said, "It is not good for man to be alone."
 
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