Its Not Fare

[Dave-W]

#ItsNotFare is the name behind a new campaign to decriminalize fare evasion on DC Metro buses and trains.
It comes on the heels of a new report that revealed more than 20,000 citations were issued for fare evasion in a two-year period.
More than 90 percent of those riders were black.

#ItsNotFare campaign fighting to decriminalize fare evasion

Should Metro police try to arrest as many white fare avoiders as blacks?

 

[Goonie]

#ItsNotFare is the name behind a new campaign to decriminalize fare evasion on DC Metro buses and trains.
It comes on the heels of a new report that revealed more than 20,000 citations were issued for fare evasion in a two-year period.
More than 90 percent of those riders were black.

#ItsNotFare campaign fighting to decriminalize fare evasion

Should Metro police try to arrest as many white fare avoiders as blacks?

I wonder how they go about detecting evasion? Given the percentages I wonder is there a bias in how it is done?

 

[Dave-W]

I wonder how they go about detecting evasion? Given the percentages I wonder is there a bias in how it is done?

Next to each set of turnstyles is a low gate. They are monitored by cameras. When the station manager sees someone jumping the gate, he/she alerts the Metro Police. Last year they started adding alarms to the gates.

Watch how easily these brazen fare evaders slip through Metro fare gates (video)

 

[FenderTL5]

Should Metro police try to arrest as many white fare avoiders as blacks?

Answering the question as worded, yes.
In theory, all who avoid paying should be treated equally regardless of skin color.

otoh, answering the question as I suspect was intended; it would depend on whether or not the percentage of those avoiding the fare were comparable.

 

[Dave-W]

otoh, answering the question as I suspect was intended; it would depend on whether or not the percentage of those avoiding the fare were comparable.

The person starting the campaign is insisting that charging fares for public transportation is inherently biased against poor blacks.

I would say the 10% arrest rate for whites is probably close to the breakdown of actual fare jumpers.

 

[FenderTL5]

I would say the 10% arrest rate for whites is probably close to the breakdown of actual fare jumpers.

I looked/listened for that detail in the linked report and didn't see/hear it.
If 90% of fare jumpers are black, then the arrest rate wouldn't seem to be racially influenced to me. Then again, if the fare jumpers are evenly split, having 90% of the arrests be people of color would be suspect.

 

[John 12:25]

Some friends of mine once worked at a pizza place. In their time there, 100% of the assaults and armed robberies of delivery drivers were committed by blacks. So I’d like to ask the communist who started this pathetic movement, are laws against armed robbery and assault inherently biased as well? Should Papa Johns whip up some free pies and drop off truckloads of cash to black neighborhoods? I mean, where does the entitlement and ‘poor me I’m a victim’ attitude end?

Sounds to me like it would be a better idea to tell them to take a hike, literally, rather than cave in to demands of entitlements to criminality.

 

[PloverWing]

Why on earth is fare evasion a criminal offense in the first place? We're talking about a few dollars' worth of fare. Surely it's a minor thing, like speeding -- it should be prohibited, and there should be enough of a fine to be a deterrent, but no more than that.

The other point raised in the article is worth paying attention to. The point of the Metro isn't to make a profit; it's to serve the residents of DC by providing an alternative to driving everywhere. (I remember what the traffic was like in DC before the Metro.) So, if the Metro is too expensive for a large number of residents, the District could subsidize it more heavily and reduce fares. It would likely get more drivers off the still-congested roads, and it would make transportation more easily available for low-income residents.

 

[ThatRobGuy]

Some friends of mine once worked at a pizza place. In their time there, 100% of the assaults and armed robberies of delivery drivers were committed by blacks. So I’d like to ask the communist who started this pathetic movement, are laws against armed robbery and assault inherently biased as well?

Noting your Reductio ad absurdum (IE: exaggerating your opponents arguments to laughable/ridiculous extremes, then criticizing the result)

I don't think I've ever heard anyone suggest what you're saying here (about laws pertaining to assault and robbery)


Now, there are disparities we can point to within the justice system pertaining to other forms of non-violent crimes in which certain minority groups definitely get disproportionately impacted...

Instead of using emotionally charged words like "communist" to try to win people over to your side, how about we actually look at the factual information about it and discuss the details of the case that led to it shall we?

Police officers slammed a woman to the ground (breaking four of her teeth, orbital bone, and fracturing her knee) in front of her two children because she didn't pay the transit fare and then made some bogus claim about resisting arrest...

Her school had a program which allows students to ride for free, but she had forgotten her card.

Is this a "righteous punishment", or can we agree that's excessive given the circumstances?


It was that case that brought a better question, should they be arresting and locking people up for transit fare evasion?

Now, a person can make a reasonable argument that it equates to theft as lost revenue from people not paying can lead to higher prices for the people who do pay...

A person could also make a reasonable argument that putting extra barriers and obstacles in the way of a person who's already poor, and making it even more difficult for them to find a way to and from work/school isn't helpful...

Regardless of which position a person is inclined to lean toward, instantly labeling a group you don't like as "communists" and equating the decriminalization of transit fare evasion to some sort of slippery slope into "The Purge" is ridiculous and unproductive.

 

[thecolorsblend]

This entire thread is pretty lulzy. There's a kind of obvious explanation for all this but it seems like nobody is willing to say it.

 

[ThatRobGuy]

This entire thread is pretty lulzy. There's a kind of obvious explanation for all this but it seems like nobody is willing to say it.

I'm assuming that "obvious explanation" you're referring to is "pay for your metro fare".

While I'd agree...I still think that criminalizing the act to the degree that they're locking people up for it and knocking out women's teeth is a bit over the line. It should be on par with jaywalking. (where, when they catch you doing it, they tell you to knock it off but it rarely goes further than that)

After all, it's Washington DC and there are much bigger rip-offs happening in that city lol. Think about it... imagine the congressman or senator you dislike the most. Now think about the fact that they make $179k/year + per diem. Someone in DC skipping out on fare doesn't seem so bad now does it...

 

[Ana the Ist]

Should Metro police try to arrest as many white fare avoiders as blacks?

What makes you think they don't?

 

[Ana the Ist]

Noting your Reductio ad absurdum (IE: exaggerating your opponents arguments to laughable/ridiculous extremes, then criticizing the result)

I don't think I've ever heard anyone suggest what you're saying here (about laws pertaining to assault and robbery)


Now, there are disparities we can point to within the justice system pertaining to other forms of non-violent crimes in which certain minority groups definitely get disproportionately impacted...

Instead of using emotionally charged words like "communist" to try to win people over to your side, how about we actually look at the factual information about it and discuss the details of the case that led to it shall we?

Not that it's the case here...but a lot of leftist talking points these days do have origins in 60s communist anti-war radical groups. The whole redefinition of "white supremacy" and "white privilege" for example. There's Leninist/Maoist techniques called "self criticism sessions" that basically mirror a lot of the "check your privilege" stuff on the left.
At least one of those communist groups pushed the idea that "everything political should be tied to race/racism" instead of "class"....because they figured it would be more effective here.

Then there's the larger notion that everyone should have the same outcomes...along with the idea that race and class are explicitly tied together in the US.

There's a lot in common there if one looks into it.

Police officers slammed a woman to the ground (breaking four of her teeth, orbital bone, and fracturing her knee) in front of her two children because she didn't pay the transit fare and then made some bogus claim about resisting arrest...

That wasn't in the article....it just said she resisted arrest, not that it was bogus.

Her school had a program which allows students to ride for free, but she had forgotten her card.

Is this a "righteous punishment", or can we agree that's excessive given the circumstances?

Police typically use force when you resist arrest...as they should. The simple way to avoid this is to not resist arrest.

It was that case that brought a better question, should they be arresting and locking people up for transit fare evasion?

That's a fare question lol...seriously though, I don't know. At a glance, I'd say no...but then again, I don't know what DC's transit system would look like without it. Is it possible that there was a time when they didn't enforce it, and the transit system became choked with drug dealers and other criminals who were using it because you can't get pulled over by police on the subway?

Now, a person can make a reasonable argument that it equates to theft as lost revenue from people not paying can lead to higher prices for the people who do pay...

A person could also make a reasonable argument that putting extra barriers and obstacles in the way of a person who's already poor, and making it even more difficult for them to find a way to and from work/school isn't helpful...

Regardless of which position a person is inclined to lean toward, instantly labeling a group you don't like as "communists" and equating the decriminalization of transit fare evasion to some sort of slippery slope into "The Purge" is ridiculous and unproductive.

You really don't know where all these ideas the left is pushing as part of their narrative come from, do you?

 

[Dave-W]

I looked/listened for that detail in the linked report and didn't see/hear it.

You have to know the ethnicity of neighborhoods where most of the fare jumping occurs.

 

[Dave-W]

What makes you think they don't?

That was a rhetorical question.

 

[Dave-W]

Why on earth is fare evasion a criminal offense in the first place? We're talking about a few dollars' worth of fare.

The first article I linked said this:

Metro previously announced it loses up to $20-million every year from fare evasion.​

The agency has had severe underfunding issues for the past 2 decades.

 

[Jon Osterman]

I can't read the article you linked (access denied) but what does "decriminalize fare evasion" actually mean? If it becomes lawful not to pay, surely no-one will pay. So why not just make public transport free? (I know it is a bit socialist for this forum, but I actually think all cities should have free city-funded public transport because it benefits everyone to get more cars off the road.)

 

[Dave-W]

if the Metro is too expensive for a large number of residents, the District could subsidize it more heavily and reduce fares.

Metro is funded from 4 sources: The Federal government, the District, and the states of Maryland and Virginia. Budget cuts of late 90s and again after 9/11 slashed Metro's funds. They have raised fares almost every year since then and they still have not had enough to cover maintenance of the tracks and communications systems.

The problem with 4 government funding sources is everyone thinks the other guys should be paying more.

 

[Dave-W]

what does "decriminalize fare evasion" actually mean?

No one is saying exactly.

 

[Goonie]

No one is saying exactly.

Maybe equivalent of a speeding ticket?