It's confusing. God doesn't set a good example.

[returntosender]

God is a jealous God. He has killed many. He is vengeful i am sure there are many more. Does he expect us to set a better example then he does? Practice what he preaches? We'd be in big trouble if we did. Do as i do not as i say, or something like that. I'd like to hear your reasonings.

 

[trophy33]

Not sure how you relate it to the theistic evolution forum, but generally, those things are bad/evil as such, but not in every context.

The context of God's jealousy, vengeance or killing people in the Bible explains how it was right/necessary (for example the biblical explanation for the flood is the corruption of the land by the sons of God).

We are not in such positions/context. For our daily Christian life, the example of Christ and apostles is much more usable - "love your neighbor as yourself" and even "love your enemies".

However, even in our life can come some context, in which for example killing could be the right thing to do - for example in a defensive war.

 

[HTacianas]

God is a jealous God. He has killed many. He is vengeful i am sure there are many more. Does he expect us to set a better example then he does? Practice what he preaches? We'd be in big trouble if we did. Do as i do not as i say, or something like that. I'd like to hear your reasonings.

The things God does are done with lawful authority. Take killing. God has not merely killed many, but has caused every single death in the history of the world. Next time someone asks how many people in the bible did God kill you can rightly answer "all of them". But even humans kill other humans both with and without lawful authority. A murderer kills unlawfully and the State puts him to death lawfully. There is a difference between the two.

 

[Akita Suggagaki]

God is a jealous God. He has killed many. He is vengeful i am sure there are many more. Does he expect us to set a better example then he does? Practice what he preaches? We'd be in big trouble if we did. Do as i do not as i say, or something like that. I'd like to hear your reasonings.

This is a good example of humanizing God and why we need to be more discerning and appreciate the the books of the Law and the Prophets as literature of reflection rather than verbatim historical account. And especially remember that it is from a Jewish perspective.

 

[returntosender]

Not sure how you relate it to the theistic evolution forum, but generally, those things are bad/evil as such, but not in every context.

The context of God's jealousy, vengeance or killing people in the Bible explains how it was right/necessary (for example the biblical explanation for the flood is the corruption of the land by the sons of God).

We are not in such positions/context. For our daily Christian life, the example of Christ and apostles is much more usable - "love your neighbor as yourself" and even "love your enemies".

However, even in our life can come some context, in which for example killing could be the right thing to do - for example in a defensive war.

Sorry, it's not the first time I've put in the wrong forum. I thought i put it in the christian debate.

 

[tampasteve]

Sorry, it's not the first time I've put in the wrong forum. I thought i put it in the christian debate.

No worries, I moved it to a better forum

 

[public hermit]

The idea that God kills by lawful authority only makes sense if God is doing the killing. When God tells the Hebrews to enter Canaan and kill everything that lives, including women and children, God is commanding them to break the very commandment God gave them, which is absurd and morally repugnant.

My suggestion: Let Christ be the primary lens through which you understand God and through which you interpret the OT. Discard any notion of God that does not align with Christ and the love of God he revealed. If you fail to do that, you will hold inconsistent notions of God and accept ad hoc arguments that try to defend the indefensible. First and foremost, the scriptures are a witness to Christ, for which they are sufficient with and only with the combined witness of the Holy Spirit. Once the Spirit dwells in you, then Christ becomes the proper interpretive key. Without that, the scriptures can be used to justify all kinds of atrocities, which history has shown to happen over and over again.

ETA: Augustine made a similar point in saying if your interpretation doesn't fall within the bounds of the dual commandment to love God and neighbor, then get a better interpretation that does. Admittedly, Augustine didn't always adhere to his own guidance, but it was still good guidance.

Early interpreters understood some of the problems in reconciling God as portrayed in the OT and God as revealed in Christ, which was one reason they favored allegorical interpretations of the OT and cautioned against sticking to a literal reading. Origen has a very helpful discussion on this very problem where he points out various inconsistencies in the narratives and even the laws! These same issues led folks like Marcion to claim that the God of the OT was not the Father of Jesus. Origen, by contrast, brought the two testaments together not by ad hoc arguments trying to defend the indefensible but by reasonable moral insight.

"By all which it is established, that the God of the law and the God of the gospels is one and the same, a just and good God, and that he confers benefits justly, and punishes with kindness; since neither goodness without justice, nor justice without goodness, can display the dignity of the divine nature." De Principiis II.5.3

Of course, Origen believed in apokatastasis, which makes good moral sense, too.

 

[friend of]

God is a jealous God. He has killed many. He is vengeful i am sure there are many more. Does he expect us to set a better example then he does? Practice what he preaches? We'd be in big trouble if we did. Do as i do not as i say, or something like that. I'd like to hear your reasonings.

God kills so many people. He's so awesome.

 

[returntosender]

God kills so many people. He's so awesome.

??

 

[Soyeong]

God is a jealous God. He has killed many. He is vengeful i am sure there are many more. Does he expect us to set a better example then he does? Practice what he preaches? We'd be in big trouble if we did. Do as i do not as i say, or something like that. I'd like to hear your reasonings.

The problem of jealousy is in regard to viewing ourselves as not have worth or with wishing that we were someone else, which is the principle of the 5th and 10th commandments. The way to view our creators as creating something of worth is by honoring them and the way to view ourselves as having worth is by not coveting others, so we are essentially being command to see ourselves as having worth in our vertical and horizontal relationships. However, jealousy can also come from a place of seeing ourselves as having incredible worth, where the problem is not with us seeing ourselves as having a lack of worth, but rather the problem is with someone else for failing to act in a way that recognizes our worth, and this is the kind of jealousy that God has for His people who have turned from Him to follow other gods that have no worth. In other words hidden in the command to love our neighbors as ourselves is also the command to love ourselves, which is not prideful because of what we have done, but is recognizing the innate worth of ourselves and our neighbors because we have been created in the image of God.

While God has killed many, it is because of His justice. We should see ourselves as having worth and pursue justice just as God does because we are made in His image.

 

[Saint Jared Bell]

God judged those people because he knew their hearts through and through and that their conscious were seared and that they were never going to repent and that they were going to go on in idolatry and murders and every other thing that is contrary to the nature of God no matter what.

 

[Andrewn]

God is a jealous God. He has killed many. He is vengeful i am sure there are many more. Does he expect us to set a better example then he does? Practice what he preaches? We'd be in big trouble if we did. Do as i do not as i say, or something like that. I'd like to hear your reasonings.

2Co 3:6 He has made us competent as ministers of a new covenant—not of the letter but of the Spirit; for the letter kills, but the Spirit gives life.

Here is a Jewish view of the Flood:

The Mesopotamian Origin of the Biblical Flood Story - TheTorah.com

In the Gilgamesh epic, Utanapishti tells Gilgamesh the story of the great flood and how he survived it. Scholars have often held that this story lies behind the biblical account of Noah and the flood. However, a good case can be made that an even more ancient tale, the Atrahasis epic, on which...

www.thetorah.com

And here is a scientific confirmation:

The Flood: Mesopotamian Archaeological Evidence | National Center for Science Education

The assertion of some historians and archaeologists that a great flood devastated a region of Mesopotamia at the dawn of history and that this event was the origin of the biblical Flood story has become a curious backwater in the debate over creationism.

ncse.ngo

 

[Clare73]

God is a jealous God. He has killed many. He is vengeful i am sure there are many more. Does he expect us to set a better example then he does? Practice what he preaches? We'd be in big trouble if we did. Do as i do not as i say, or something like that. I'd like to hear your reasonings.

God's jealousy is a praise-worthy zeal to preserve something extremely precious.
I see it to be no virtue in a man who had no zeal to protect the love relationship of his marriage, or to retaliate when it was broken. Zeal to protect is the fruit of married affection. The married person who felt no jealousy at the intrusion of a lover or adulteress into their marriage would, in my view, be morally deficient. For the essence of marriage is its exclusiveness.
This jealousy to preserve something precious is a virtue, showing apprehension of the true meaning of the husband-wife relationship (Eph 5:30-32), and a right zeal to keep it intact.

 

[Veni]

Did you not see the warning before the killing?

 

[Agra man]

God is a jealous God. He has killed many. He is vengeful i am sure there are many more. Does he expect us to set a better example then he does? Practice what he preaches? We'd be in big trouble if we did. Do as i do not as i say, or something like that. I'd like to hear your reasonings.

As the author and creator he has the right and the justification to do as he pleases and he is a righteous and just God as well not just Jealous you cannot take one aspect of him and base a perspective on that

 

[Akita Suggagaki]

Is OP also talking about Christ?

 

[public hermit]

God's jealousy is a praise-worthy zeal to preserve something extremely precious.
I see it to be no virtue in a man who had no zeal to protect the love relationship of his marriage, or to retaliate when it was broken. Zeal to protect is the fruit of married affection. The married person who felt no jealousy at the intrusion of a lover or adulteress into their marriage would, in my view, be morally deficient. For the essence of marriage is its exclusiveness.
This jealousy to preserve something precious is a virtue, showing apprehension of the true meaning of the husband-wife relationship (Eph 5:30-32), and a right zeal to keep it intact.

Hi Clare. You are a pillar of steadfast devotion. I have the utmost respect for that quality about you. But I'm going to disagree that God is jealous, in the strict sense of the word.

Isn't that a metaphor? Does God feel jealous? Does God feel as if someone else has something better, but since God can't get it, God begins to hate the one who has more than God? I'm incredulous. God is not jealous if by "jealous " we mean jealous.

 

[Hammster]

God is a jealous God. He has killed many. He is vengeful i am sure there are many more. Does he expect us to set a better example then he does? Practice what he preaches? We'd be in big trouble if we did. Do as i do not as i say, or something like that. I'd like to hear your reasonings.

He’s not jealous in the way we are jealous. His jealousy stems from the fact that He knows He’s the best for us. He wants us to have the best, which is Himself. Our jealousy comes from thinking we are the best for someone and we want to force that understand on others.

The issue of God killing is really wondering why He hasn’t killed more, or wondering why we are even allowed to live. We are sinful creatures, and it’s well within God’s right to take out His enemies.

 

[Clare73]

Hi Clare. You are a pillar of steadfast devotion. I have the utmost respect for that quality about you. But I'm going to disagree that God is jealous, in the strict sense of the word.

Isn't that a metaphor? Does God feel jealous? Does God feel as if someone else has something better, but since God can't get it, God begins to hate the one who has more than God? I'm incredulous. God is not jealous if by "jealous " we mean jealous.

Thanks!

Did you see the definition of jealousy:

God's jealousy is a praise-worthy zeal to preserve something extremely precious.

God's jealousy is never corrupt/sinful, man's jealousy can be.

 

[returntosender]

He’s not jealous in the way we are jealous. His jealousy stems from the fact that He knows He’s the best for us. He wants us to have the best, which is Himself. Our jealousy comes from thinking we are the best for someone and we want to force that understand on others.

The issue of God killing is really wondering why He hasn’t killed more, or wondering why we are even allowed to live. We are sinful creatures, and it’s well within God’s right to take out His enemies.

On Forgiveness and revenge most terrible for us but not for him. Hi Hamm,. Still waiting for the hamster in the suit.