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oh I know.I'm pretty sure he stated that atheism is not a religion.
That's what atheists tell themselves.I didn't say that I'm a non-theist. I said I'm an Atheist.
Atheism is a response to the Theist claim that god exists. No more, no less. Atheism isn't a belief system. Atheists simply state that the Theist hypothesis that a god exists has failed to meet its burden of proof and, as such, reject the hypothesis.
Note that Atheists do not state that god does not exist. Apologies for the double negatives. Atheists merely reject the god hypothesis on the basis that the claim has not met its burden of proof.
What "burden" of proof? Yours? Science's? Science isn't capable of determining God's existence.If the god hypothesis does meet its burden of proof, then it would be dishonest and illogical not to amend our stance.
You may believe what you will but this does not constitute proof of anything.
Complexity and 'apparent' intelligent design is no proof of god - or anything else for that matter. Evolution is accepted by most scientists as the most likely explanation of the diversity of life on Earth. Besides, I used the term "'apparent' intelligent design" because the human body could and should have been better designed had there been an intelligent designer. Let's take DNA. Who the hell designs a molecule that, when it divides and multiples, could give rise to a cancerous mutation? Who the hell designs a human being with an orifice down which one pours water and food and which is also used to breath through such that choking is a real possibility. And now, to be crude, for which I sincerely apologise, which intelligent creator put a female's pleasure beach right next to the sewage works? This intelligent design business doesn't seem intelligent to me. Someone with even a modicum of intelligence would never design a human this way. I could go on but the suggestion of intelligent design is ludicrous.
If you think that god is more likely than evolution, the please provide proof.
You make claims about the improbability of life. Improbability does not mean it is impossible. Further, because life without god is improbable, god does not make it more probable because the improbability of god is ignored.
How improbable is god?
This therefore begs the question: How and why do people become Theists and, given the lack of evidence and recent scientific research, remain so.
I read the teaching of the one who is widely considered the one who would know of God best, the one Jesus, as generally thought by people from around the world to be the superior, accurate guide.Then how did you conclude that there is a god?
Ok, so what would it take to convince you to believe in God? And I apologize if somebody already covered this, I'm too busy/lazy to read the whole thread.
Could it be something as simple as an amazing coincidence? What if God showed you something in a way only you would understand?
If he spoke to you audibly would that do it?
Maybe it's not just a book that prompts us to believe. Maybe it's a million little miracles.
Contrary to scientific conclusions special creation is the only logical origin of the material universe, most notably life. The TOE may be a carefully constructed (strong) delusion, by God, to keep unbelievers in the dark, for the time being.
One becomes a theist because he is persuaded by logic and the evidence that there must be a God. You aren't so persuaded.
That's it.
And if I may suggest...the reason Theists may tend to shy away from your Atheist forums is because Atheists are united in denigrating Theists, but there is little for them to debate among themselves. "Don't believe in God" pretty much exhausts the discussion for Atheists whereas there are a myriad of events and concepts that Theists deal in.
Ah, your edit^^^ came after I replied...God plays by his own rules.
2 Thessalonians 2:11
And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:
He already said.2. If god is the all powerful being that people claim, then he would know what proof is required.
I read the teaching of the one who is widely considered the one who would know of God best, the one Jesus, as generally thought by people from around the world to be the superior, accurate guide.
So, by following the directions from the best guide, who knows better, more accurately.
That way I avoided the mistakes people make (like from listening to people speculating about this or that), in favor if the actual instructions.
He already said.
No other sign will be given to those seeking proof, than one that was given.
You may believe what you will but this does not constitute proof of anything.
Complexity and 'apparent' intelligent design is no proof of god - or anything else for that matter. Evolution is accepted by most scientists as the most likely explanation of the diversity of life on Earth. Besides, I used the term "'apparent' intelligent design" because the human body could and should have been better designed had there been an intelligent designer. Let's take DNA. Who the hell designs a molecule that, when it divides and multiples, could give rise to a cancerous mutation? Who the hell designs a human being with an orifice down which one pours water and food and which is also used to breath through such that choking is a real possibility. And now, to be crude, for which I sincerely apologise, which intelligent creator put a female's pleasure beach right next to the sewage works? This intelligent design business doesn't seem intelligent to me. Someone with even a modicum of intelligence would never design a human this way. I could go on but the suggestion of intelligent design is ludicrous.
If you think that god is more likely than evolution, the please provide proof.
You make claims about the improbability of life. Improbability does not mean it is impossible. Further, because life without god is improbable, god does not make it more probable because the improbability of god is ignored.
How improbable is god?
Whoa wait.... you cannot reason from human ignorance to a specific probability of a fact of reality. Can you?....Man today saying there is no God could be just as ignorant as a man in the 10th century saying that man cannot fly. In the 10th century no man had flown and there was no proof that man could ever fly yet today men fly everyday. So in answer to your question what is the probability of God’s existence, that’s easy it’s 50/50. Either He does or He doesn’t. Neither of us can prove anything in favor of His existence or against it.
I'll have to ask forgiveness then. My impression of "A (without) theism (belief in God)" is of a belief that there is no God.
You cannot prove that claim scientifically. Neither is it wholly correct. Centuries ago science told us illness was due to imbalances in the four humors. That turned out to be completely incorrect. "Science" told us the earth was the center of the universe. That, too, turned out to be incorrect. Spontaneous generation? Oops! Time and space fixed? nope. It takes just as much faith to believe in science as it does God, maybe more so.The scientific method is single most reliable group of methods which most reliably explains the universe that we occupy.
Nice attempt at shifting the burden. The answer to your question is: Reason.And you can support this claim how?
Taught it. You're the one arguing fallaciously unawares.I will and, for your part, please read some books on Logic and Proof.
Richard Carrier, and others, have researched the historicity of jesus and concluded that he never actually had an Earthly existence.
Science believes that the Universe is billions of years old and has so many stars and planets that we cannot begin to estimate the numbers. We also cannot fathom how large the Universe is or if if even there is a limit to it. All of this, plus the fact that the Universe has not somehow destroyed itself for countless generations is indirect evidence of a Supreme Intelligence behind all of it.So... whats an example of this evidence?
If God is all knowing, then he knows that some people will never be convinced by the kind of " proof" you claim to seek. God requires faith, because if we have proof that can't be explained away, then belief would have no meaning.. If god is the all powerful being that people claim, then he would know what proof is required.
I don't find it odd at all. Jesus' audience was the Jews in Judea not gentiles anywhere. It was at least 14 yrs. after his death that Paul went to the gentiles. Yes, there were a few Roman converts, and that's assuming there were more than Cornelius after Pentecost. But Cornelius was already a believer in the Jewish God.
However, there is a Roman historian who wrote about Jesus and his Christian followers, named Tacitus.
Tacitus on Christ - Wikipedia
Science believes that the Universe is billions of years old and has so many stars and planets that we cannot begin to estimate the numbers. We also cannot fathom how large the Universe is or if if even there is a limit to it. All of this, plus the fact that the Universe has not somehow destroyed itself for countless generations is indirect evidence of a Supreme Intelligence behind all of it.
I dont see how the very-bigness of the universe is a reason for a creator. Would a creator be less necessary if the universe was 0.001 as big as we think it is? I just dont see how size indicates one way or the other re a creator. What is the connection?Science believes that the Universe is billions of years old and has so many stars and planets that we cannot begin to estimate the numbers. We also cannot fathom how large the Universe is or if if even there is a limit to it. All of this, plus the fact that the Universe has not somehow destroyed itself for countless generations is indirect evidence of a Supreme Intelligence behind all of it.
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