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Post #6 was my humble offering, which apparently went over like a lead balloon.
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You can still play. Many of the toys are abandoned and strewn about the place.
Then how did you conclude that there is a god?That what I did. It's a voluntary act though.
It's you that misrepresents me.
I became an Atheist because Theism has failed to meet its burden of proof. As such, I reject the god hypothesis until such time as there is proof.
If you have come to the conclusion that there is a god, you either have proof or you have faith. Proof requires investigation. Faith requires nothing more that accepting the god hypothesis. If you have proof, then I would like to hear it.
Ah, another ad hominem. Another sure sign of a lost argument.Who has appointed you as judge that you demand being convinced?
When I was in college many years ago, I ran across a book written by a philosopher, not a Christian and I do not believe a member of any organized faith. He was actually an agnostic it would seem. I do not know his name or the title of his book. After all, it has been several decades since college. However, he laid out all the proofs, for and against the existence of God. His final summation is that there is slightly more proof for God than against and his main reason is not because it would take a Supreme Being to create the Universe, but that someone or something has sustained the Universe's existence for billions of years and he attributed such to a Supreme Being.Agreed, but being raised a Theist isn't a good reason to remain one.
I am absolutely gob-smacked by this statement. AFAIK, not one shred of evidence for the existence of the god of the bible, or any other god for that matter, has ever been produced. If there ever has, you and I would not be having this conversation. If there is evidence for the existence of any god, I would like to hear it. By the way, so would the Nobel committee because, if you have such evidence and present it, you will, I have no doubt, be rewarded with a Nobel prize. In addition, if you present such evidence of a god to James Randi, or his committee, you will receive $1 million.
Do you want to be in a position where you believe as much as possible what is true and reject as much as possible what is false? I know I do. Faith is one of the least reliable methods for arriving at the truth that I am aware of. Why would any logical and honest thinker use faith to determine what is true and what it false. To do so is patently absurd.
When I look up at the stars I see natural scientific laws at work.
When I look up at the stars, it convinces me that it is not the work of any god, including the one that you seem to believe in, unless that god is perverse and malevolent. The universe is an extremely hostile place, especially to mankind. If you don't believe me, take a trip into outer space without benefit of an expensive space suit and see how long you last. In fact, most of the universe consists of empty space at a temperature of 2.73 degrees Kelvin, which, by any standard, is a might cold and definitely not conducive to any form of life, including Human. Take a trip to our nearest star, the SUN, and see what happens when you get too close. Don't go too close to a supernova, there's a strong possibility that you will end up dead. Indeed, you can stay on this planet and observe what a precarious life we Humans actually have. The dinosaurs are no more because of a cataclysmic event here on Earth (thought to be the result of a large meteorite hitting it). If a god really exists, I would have thought that the good people, in what was Pompeii, are non-too-pleased with the god entity. About 71% of the Earth is covered by water. This is not a substance which man can breath.
Why would any god, let alone your god, create Man and then place him in such a hostile environment pray tell?
If I were you, I would go to sleep. Given your post, it would appear that you need to.
Night night.
Ah, another ad hominem. Another sure sign of a lost argument.
We are debating the god hypothesis. A logical and honest person only believes when there is proof. If you wish to offer proof, then offer it.
If you no longer want to be part of the debate, then feel free to withdraw.
Would be interesting to see the evidence for this.....someone or something has sustained the Universe's existence for billions of years and he attributed such to a Supreme Being.
I don't find it odd at all. Jesus' audience was the Jews in Judea not gentiles anywhere. It was at least 14 yrs. after his death that Paul went to the gentiles. Yes, there were a few Roman converts, and that's assuming there were more than Cornelius after Pentecost. But Cornelius was already a believer in the Jewish God.The Romans, who were one of the most anally-retentive peoples ever to walk the Earth, wrote nothing about jesus during his lifetime. Odd, don't you think?
Before I begin, I'd like to state that I'm an Atheist.
As far as I can remember, although my parents were Theists, I have never been one. The thought of a god seems so improbably to me. It just makes no logical sense. As far as I am able to recall, I've always felt that a god was illogical and improbable.
I remember this one time at school I told one of the boys, that I considered a friend, that I didn't believe in god. I'm sure that there was a valid reason for telling him this but that is now lost in the mists of time. That must have been way back in the late 50s when the world was a very different place and when most people in the UK believed in god.
Anyways, later that day, the teacher asked the class to put up their hands if they believed in god. Obviously, my soon-to-be-ex-friend had snitched on me. No matter, my hand remained firmly down. Even in those days, I was a rebel.
The teacher noticed that only my hand remained down.
I was asked to come and stand in front of the class, caned on the hand and then made to stand in the corner with my back to the class until home time.
I remember the incident as though it were yesterday because it was the one and only time that I was ever punished by a teacher since, actually, I was a very keen and studious student.
The incident made no difference one way or the other. I didn't believe in god because it was illogical. Logic doesn't change. Neither has my attitude to religion.
I am a member of several Atheist forums. We welcome Theists unreservedly although we reserve the right to question the Theist's beliefs. Unlike this forum, full access to all of our threads are open to both Theists and Atheists alike. Generally, Theists are free to criticise us Atheists in whatever manner they choose, including the use of profanity. You see, from our perspective, truth has nothing to fear from inquiry. Even though christianity is supposedly about peace, love, understanding, acceptance and tolerance, it would appear that Atheists are far more tolerant of Theists than are Theists of Atheists, given that there are topics on this forum that are only open to christians.
At one time, drive-by Theists frequently dropped into our forums but they rarely stayed any length of time when they realised that we Atheists had able minds and used them in a logical and inquiring manner. Fools we weren't.
However, I can't quite remember when we last encountered a Theist. Our forums have become as quiet as the grave. Therefore, I though that I would drop in on you guys and gals for a spot of healthy debate.
Let's start at the top, if I may:
If one begins with the premise: I don't know whether a god exists or not and one then follows the evidence in a logical and honest manner, one does not end up at the conclusion: There is a god.
This therefore begs the question: How and why do people become Theists and, given the lack of evidence and recent scientific research, remain so.
It always seems a bit weird to me when atheists invade Christian formats apparently in order to convince people of faith that they're wrong. If we are wrong, what is that to the one who believes in nothing? Is he an evangelist for nothingness? If we come to his side and believe in nothing too, what has he gained? Nothing.
The evidence is not direct evidence that can be tested via the scientific method. It is rather indirect evidence, but evidence nevertheless, if one wishes to accept it.Would be interesting to see the evidence for this.
Ok, then, I'm off to ask the people on the Easter bunny forum why they believe in the bunny. On second thought, why waste my time, when I could be just enjoying roast rabbit and watching bugs bunny cartoons?You obviously do not understand Atheism. For the umpteenth time, we reject the Theist god hypothesis until such time as proof is presented.
I am not trying to convince anyone of anything except to ask for proof of god.
I am not claiming that there is a god nor that there is no god - only that there is insufficient proof to warrant a belief in a god.
I am not claiming that people are wrong to have faith. I am saying that it is illogical and incorrect to claim that assertions, regardless of which book they are in, are the same as proof.
Thats for everyone who claims "atheism is a religion!"
Ok, so what would it take to convince you to believe in God? And I apologize if somebody already covered this, I'm too busy/lazy to read the whole thread.I am not claiming that people are wrong to have faith. I am saying that it is illogical and incorrect to claim that assertions, regardless of which book they are in, are the same as proof.
I believe there are tons of scientific evidence that suggest the probability of God is more probable than evolution or any other theories we have floating around out there.
The complexity and intelligent design of life, the ecosystem, and the consideration of all that is necessary for life to exist on this planet are all very overwhelming. Many have compared the odds of all these necessities coming together by chance with placing a bunch of dynamite along with paper and ink into a room and lighting the fuse resulting in the creation of a library of books. The improbability factor of all these coming together in perfect harmony are staggeringly improbable, even more improbable than the existence of God.
Before I begin, I'd like to state that I'm an Atheist.
As far as I can remember, although my parents were Theists, I have never been one. The thought of a god seems so improbably to me. It just makes no logical sense. As far as I am able to recall, I've always felt that a god was illogical and improbable.
I remember this one time at school I told one of the boys, that I considered a friend, that I didn't believe in god. I'm sure that there was a valid reason for telling him this but that is now lost in the mists of time. That must have been way back in the late 50s when the world was a very different place and when most people in the UK believed in god.
Anyways, later that day, the teacher asked the class to put up their hands if they believed in god. Obviously, my soon-to-be-ex-friend had snitched on me. No matter, my hand remained firmly down. Even in those days, I was a rebel.
The teacher noticed that only my hand remained down.
I was asked to come and stand in front of the class, caned on the hand and then made to stand in the corner with my back to the class until home time.
I remember the incident as though it were yesterday because it was the one and only time that I was ever punished by a teacher since, actually, I was a very keen and studious student.
The incident made no difference one way or the other. I didn't believe in god because it was illogical. Logic doesn't change. Neither has my attitude to religion.
I am a member of several Atheist forums. We welcome Theists unreservedly although we reserve the right to question the Theist's beliefs. Unlike this forum, full access to all of our threads are open to both Theists and Atheists alike. Generally, Theists are free to criticise us Atheists in whatever manner they choose, including the use of profanity. You see, from our perspective, truth has nothing to fear from inquiry. Even though christianity is supposedly about peace, love, understanding, acceptance and tolerance, it would appear that Atheists are far more tolerant of Theists than are Theists of Atheists, given that there are topics on this forum that are only open to christians.
At one time, drive-by Theists frequently dropped into our forums but they rarely stayed any length of time when they realised that we Atheists had able minds and used them in a logical and inquiring manner. Fools we weren't.
However, I can't quite remember when we last encountered a Theist. Our forums have become as quiet as the grave. Therefore, I though that I would drop in on you guys and gals for a spot of healthy debate.
Let's start at the top, if I may:
If one begins with the premise: I don't know whether a god exists or not and one then follows the evidence in a logical and honest manner, one does not end up at the conclusion: There is a god.
This therefore begs the question: How and why do people become Theists and, given the lack of evidence and recent scientific research, remain so.
One needs to tread carefully.Before I begin, I'd like to state that I'm an Atheist.
As far as I can remember, although my parents were Theists, I have never been one. The thought of a god seems so improbably to me. It just makes no logical sense. As far as I am able to recall, I've always felt that a god was illogical and improbable.
I remember this one time at school I told one of the boys, that I considered a friend, that I didn't believe in god. I'm sure that there was a valid reason for telling him this but that is now lost in the mists of time. That must have been way back in the late 50s when the world was a very different place and when most people in the UK believed in god.
Anyways, later that day, the teacher asked the class to put up their hands if they believed in god. Obviously, my soon-to-be-ex-friend had snitched on me. No matter, my hand remained firmly down. Even in those days, I was a rebel.
The teacher noticed that only my hand remained down.
I was asked to come and stand in front of the class, caned on the hand and then made to stand in the corner with my back to the class until home time.
I remember the incident as though it were yesterday because it was the one and only time that I was ever punished by a teacher since, actually, I was a very keen and studious student.
The incident made no difference one way or the other. I didn't believe in god because it was illogical. Logic doesn't change. Neither has my attitude to religion.
I am a member of several Atheist forums. We welcome Theists unreservedly although we reserve the right to question the Theist's beliefs. Unlike this forum, full access to all of our threads are open to both Theists and Atheists alike. Generally, Theists are free to criticise us Atheists in whatever manner they choose, including the use of profanity. You see, from our perspective, truth has nothing to fear from inquiry. Even though christianity is supposedly about peace, love, understanding, acceptance and tolerance, it would appear that Atheists are far more tolerant of Theists than are Theists of Atheists, given that there are topics on this forum that are only open to christians.
At one time, drive-by Theists frequently dropped into our forums but they rarely stayed any length of time when they realised that we Atheists had able minds and used them in a logical and inquiring manner. Fools we weren't.
However, I can't quite remember when we last encountered a Theist. Our forums have become as quiet as the grave. Therefore, I though that I would drop in on you guys and gals for a spot of healthy debate.
Let's start at the top, if I may:
If one begins with the premise: I don't know whether a god exists or not and one then follows the evidence in a logical and honest manner, one does not end up at the conclusion: There is a god.
This therefore begs the question: How and why do people become Theists and, given the lack of evidence and recent scientific research, remain so.
So... whats an example of this evidence?The evidence is not direct evidence that can be tested via the scientific method. It is rather indirect evidence, but evidence nevertheless, if one wishes to accept it.
I'll have to ask forgiveness then. My impression of "A (without) theism (belief in God)" is of a belief that there is no God.Misrepresenting me seems to be a trait of this forum.
Atheists are 'not against god'.
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