It should be Murder?

[SteveB28]

yes

Oh my. Again, you haven't done much thinking about this have you?

Apart from your cruelty, apart from the immorality of your stance, could you please explain how you can bring someone up on charges for attempting to murder something that doesn't even exist yet?!

Remember, when a woman has an IUD fitted, she hasn't conceived yet! There is no fertilised egg there to 'kill' at that moment. And, to make your ridiculous position even more muddled, many women use an IUD in combination with a spermicidal preparation which is designed to kill sperm cells before they can reach the ovum. So, when a woman fails to become pregnant, she cannot be sure whether it was the spermicide or the IUD which 'did the trick'.

What are you going to recommend in these cases? That all of these women must undergo regular and detailed internal examinations to find out which were 'killing foetuses' and which were just 'killing sperm'?!

 

[SteveB28]

basic biology indicates that fetuses are nothing other than very young children .

Except this discussion isn't based upon biology. It is based upon the legal mechanisms involved with trying to make abortion murder - had you forgotten?

 

[jenny1972]

Oh my. Again, you haven't done much thinking about this have you?

Apart from your cruelty, apart from the immorality of your stance, could you please explain how you can bring someone up on charges for attempting to murder something that doesn't even exist yet?!

Remember, when a woman has an IUD fitted, she hasn't conceived yet! There is no fertilised egg there to 'kill' at that moment. And, to make your ridiculous position even more muddled, many women use an IUD in combination with a spermicidal preparation which is designed to kill sperm cells before they can reach the ovum. So, when a woman fails to become pregnant, she cannot be sure whether it was the spermicide or the IUD which 'did the trick'.

What are you going to recommend in these cases? That all of these women must undergo regular and detailed internal examinations to find out which were 'killing foetuses' and which were just 'killing sperm'?!

you yourself admitted that the zygote did exist

 

[SteveB28]

I told you the police wouldnt be coming to call unless there was a reason to suspect a crime had been committed if a healthcare provider noticed signs a violent abortion has taken place . If its not detected by a healthcare professional the police wouldnt become involved .

Rubbish. You forget I have lived in an era in which your barbaric suggestions were law. Many girls and women were 'dobbed in' to the authorities by nosey neighbours, uncaring family members, school authorities and, yes, by health professionals.

You simply don't know what you are talking about.

The agenda for so many religious conservatives is "What can I get angry about today and who can I hate?"

 

[SteveB28]

you yourself admitted that the zygote did exist

You are a woman aren't you? You would know something about the female reproductive system? When a women goes to her doctor to have an IUD fitted, she hasn't yet conceived! So, no, there is no zygote in existence....yet. Your inane suggestion would mean that the woman would be charged for attempting to murder something which doesn't yet exist!

 

[SteveB28]

My answer is for the Church to bring Christ to individuals and the Spirit will change the hearts of those who would abort their babies. As for the Church their leaders have failed to make disciples of those who are Christians. A follower of Christ denies self and exercises self control. The leaders are examples and they media has had a field day exposing their shameful behaviors. Laws never work. They increase crime, not decrease it. And often the law enforcers become criminal in how they try to enforce the laws.

Thank you for totally ignoring the question at hand and choosing to preach instead.

 

[dogs4thewin]

So you do think all women with terminated pregnancies should be prosecuted and tried by a jury? Not sure what you mean...

no, abortion is currently legal, so nothing should happen.

 

[SteveB28]

The sheeple are always right? Yeah right!

Oh goodness. My teaching days are long gone, but I can see I need to give you a brief lesson in history.

We, as communities, have always determined what is 'right' by coming to a consensus amongst ourselves.

We used to consider slavery to be 'right'.
We used to consider the destruction of witches as the 'right' thing to do.
We used to think it 'right' to accuse the mentally ill of being 'demonised'.

We no longer feel those things to be 'right' (apart from the sociopaths amongst us). And how did we arrive at this agreement? Did a copy of the Book For Being Good fall from the skies to direct us? No. We came to the slow realisation, as we argued amongst ourselves, found out more about the world, even warred over some issues, that these things were not 'right'. That they were not in our best interests to continue.

We did it ourselves.

Lesson over.

 

[Hammster]

MOD HAT ON






MOD HAT OFF

 

[farout]

I see many here who would wish to deny a woman the right to terminate a pregnancy, by declaring that it would be an act of murder.

And yet I also see those same people running away from this question:

How would such a law be enforced?

Clearly termination a child in the womb is serious, and being a very conservative Christian I d have very strong feelings. Often we are very quick to want to bring the woman into accountability for ending a child's life. But as in all sinful events in life the scope is wider than we can see. What about the male who got her pregnant? I know a guy who is 29 who have three children by 3 different woman. He goes about like a honey bee pollenating with no responsibility for his part in creating little babies. I dearly would like to make it so he could not impregnate another woman. He lies and gets young women wins their trust and you guessed it. I know the women were wrong as well, but 3 children that he does not support is at this point inexcusable.

But the stat's tell us that most abortions are preformed on Black women. Of all abortions I have stat's on says the majority are married women who feel they can not afford a child for many reasons. Yes, there are a very small percentage who abort because of rape or incest, but that is an extremely very small percentage.

If a woman ,and there are some who use this as birth control. This makes me very deeply sad beyond words, and when a woman has more than one abortion there needs to be an intervention by whom I do who, but this now becomes close to where all kinds of bells and things should go off inside such a woman saying you are killing your children.

I believe the Gospel is the only way a woman can change her morals, not all women will change. Frankly I see little hope for the end of unwanted children, and men who take no responsibility for their sexual exploits. I can see with couples living together before marriage, more and more aborted babies and more unwanted children, who will follow the examples set before them. The only hope is getting men and women to follow Jesus Christ.

 

[jenny1972]

You are a woman aren't you? You would know something about the female reproductive system? When a women goes to her doctor to have an IUD fitted, she hasn't yet conceived! So, no, there is no zygote in existence....yet. Your inane suggestion would mean that the woman would be charged for attempting to murder something which doesn't yet exist!

if abortion is illegal then IUD's would also be illegal women would prevented from getting IUD's not charged with attempted murder since obviously the presence of a zygote cannot possibly be proven to exist , but the IUD would be illegal as its purpose is to destroy the life of the zygote .

 

[SteveB28]

Clearly termination a child in the womb is serious, and being a very conservative Christian I d have very strong feelings. Often we are very quick to want to bring the woman into accountability for ending a child's life. But as in all sinful events in life the scope is wider than we can see. What about the male who got her pregnant? I know a guy who is 29 who have three children by 3 different woman. He goes about like a honey bee pollenating with no responsibility for his part in creating little babies. I dearly would like to make it so he could not impregnate another woman. He lies and gets young women wins their trust and you guessed it. I know the women were wrong as well, but 3 children that he does not support is at this point inexcusable.

But the stat's tell us that most abortions are preformed on Black women. Of all abortions I have stat's on says the majority are married women who feel they can not afford a child for many reasons. Yes, there are a very small percentage who abort because of rape or incest, but that is an extremely very small percentage.

If a woman ,and there are some who use this as birth control. This makes me very deeply sad beyond words, and when a woman has more than one abortion there needs to be an intervention by whom I do who, but this now becomes close to where all kinds of bells and things should go off inside such a woman saying you are killing your children.

I believe the Gospel is the only way a woman can change her morals, not all women will change. Frankly I see little hope for the end of unwanted children, and men who take no responsibility for their sexual exploits. I can see with couples living together before marriage, more and more aborted babies and more unwanted children, who will follow the examples set before them. The only hope is getting men and women to follow Jesus Christ.

This discussion is specifically about the proposal that women should be charged with murder for terminating a pregnancy. Do you have anything to contribute?

 

[CRAZY_CAT_WOMAN]

No alternative? I can easily think of one.

Have the baby.

You can say that all you want. But some woman will terminate regardless.

 

[SteveB28]

if abortion is illegal then IUD's would also be illegal women would prevented from getting IUD's not charged with attempted murder since obviously the presence of a zygote cannot possibly be proven to exist , but the IUD would be illegal as its purpose is to destroy the life of the zygote .

And owning a rifle could be used as a means of killing someone. Are you going to recommend that gun owners be charged with attempted murder for what might be the outcome of their actions? As a gun owner you can make the declaration that "I have a rifle and will shoot to kill anyone who comes into my house without permission", just as a woman might say "I have an IUD fitted and it will kill any fertilised ovum that occupies my body without my permission".

You would congratulate one and condemn the other.

 

[Xalith]

Of course the heretic lutheran would be the one supporting the murder of babies.

With so many enemies against Christianity, do we really need to be attacking each other with accusations?

Isn't the "Accuser of the Brethren" called "Satan"?

Come on, now. No need to drag fellow Christians' names through the mud. Don't think of yourself as perfect while spitting hateful words towards another, especially not a Christian for you have faults just like they do.

Not a single one of us is righteous on our own; no, not one. Not myself, not the guy you quoted, not you.

 

[jenny1972]

And owning a rifle could be used as a means of killing someone. Are you going to recommend that gun owners be charged with attempted murder for what might be the outcome of their actions? As a gun owner you can make the declaration that "I have a rifle and will shoot to kill anyone who comes into my house without permission", just as a woman might say "I have an IUD fitted and it will kill any fertilised ovum that occupies my body without my permission".

You would congratulate one and condemn the other.

if abortion was illegal the IUD could be either viewed as a method of contraception or a method of early abortion so it depends on how if people see it as contraception or as an abortion tool . it would be debated right now its considered to be contraception and im sure people who are against abortion would see IUD's as contraception and be ok with it.

 

[KarateCowboy]

The death penalty?

[/sarcasm]

I'd be fine with that. Cursed is the kinslayer, amirite?

 

[Aelred of Rievaulx]

I'd be fine with that. Cursed is the kinslayer, amirite?

I wouldn't. The death penalty should never be used.

 

[KarateCowboy]

We, as communities, have always determined what is 'right' by coming to a consensus amongst ourselves.


.

Always! ... except when we haven't. Like when the Supreme Court declared a right to murder your kid out of privacy. Or when Southern states got together and came to a consensus about owning slaves, only to that quashed.

Anyway, remember that democracy is two wolves and lamb voting upon what to have for dinner.

 

[KarateCowboy]

I wouldn't. The death penalty should never be used.

Well, I happen to believe that if you murder someone then you deserve to die. Even worse when it's a child. Even more evil when it's your own child. I don't think even wolves kill their own.