It really doesn't matter.

[gluadys]

Yes, there are theistic evolutionists. But there are also many, many evolutionists who are atheists. These really are the one's I meant to adress.

So why did you post it here in a forum limited to Christians?

 

[shinbits]

I don't accept ID because of a lack of evidence. Furthermore, I am Christian and take offense at your assertion that I am "at enmity with God".

I already stated in another post that I was refering to non-Christians.


And as to why I put this in a Christian only forum, it's because this is not intended to be a creation/evolution debate. It was adressed to Christians who believe in ID or creation.

 

[Dannager]

I already stated in another post that I was refering to non-Christians.


And as to why I put this in a Christian only forum, it's because this is not intended to be a creation/evolution debate. It was adressed to Christians who believe in ID or creation.

You made a blanket statement that included everyone who didn't believe in ID. I don't believe in ID. Now you can have it one of two ways:

1. You can say that I don't believe in ID because I have failed to understand the world properly.
2. You can say that I don't believe in ID because I am at enmity with God.

However, you have no reason to assume that atheist or agnostic evolutionists do not believe in ID because they are at enmity with God. Could they simply be understanding the world improperly, in your opinion? I don't see any difference in this matter between myself and an atheist when it comes to disbelief of ID.

Claiming that atheist evolutionists do not believe in ID because they are at enmity with God is a very intolerant and spiteful thing to say, and I am personally offended by such a statement and would like to lump myself in with them for the purposes of this argument.

 

[notto]

Why can't atheists not accept ID for the same reasons many Christians don't.

It is poor science and poor theology.

 

[chaoschristian]

I read that I didn't glean the same message. Could you please explain how that said by accepting evolution you hate God?

Sorry I took so long to get to this.

Look here:

There is plenty of reason to believe in ID. Those who don't want to chose not to and wont.

It is important to learn what you can about ID, creation and evolution. But keep in mind, that people who don't believe in ID don't do so because of lack of facts. They do so because they are "at enmity with God".

Shinbits Premises:

1. There are plenty of reasons to believe in ID. In other words, there is compelling evidence that cannot be ignored or refuted that substantiates ID.

2. Those who don't [believe in ID] want to choose not to [believe] and won't [believe]. In other words, those whose choose to reject ID are doing so out of willful ignorance.

3. . . . that people who don't believe in ID don't do so because of a lack of facts. In other words, those who reject ID do so not on the basis of evidence, but for some other reason.

4. They do so because they are "at enmity with God" In other words, people who reject ID do not do so on the basis of evidence, but because they are at enmity with God.

5.

en·mi·ty ([FONT=verdana, sans-serif] P [/FONT]) Pronunciation Key (

n

m

-t

)
n. pl. en·mi·ties
Deep-seated, often mutual hatred.[Middle English enemite, from Old French enemistie, from Vulgar Latin *inim

cit

s, from Latin inim

cus, enemy. See enemy.]

Shinbits Conclusion:

Therefore, people who reject ID do so not on the basis of evidence, but because they hate God.

His clumsy backpedaling about directing this only at non-Christians notwithstanding, Shinbits stated with a high degree of certainty that people who reject ID do so because they hate God. If one accepts evolutionary theory, one normally also rejects ID as the two are conflicting and opposing origins theories. Therefore, those who accept evolutionary theory do so because they hate God.

If Shinbits wanted to say something other than this, then he exercised extremely poor judgement in wording and reasoning.

 

[1denomination]

Well hello CF.

You know it's been a year since I posted on here...........well enough with the history on to the point.


"Shinbits" I think I understand what you were trying to say in your "OP" and if my interpretation is correct then I agree with you. This disscussion for the most part doesnt really matter, what does matter is faith in christ . Now if that was the intended message of the "OP" then I'm sure that everyone here can agree. That being said, I belive that most(I think all but just playing it safe) of the TE's here feel as though their faith is on trial because they happen to belive that the father used evo as the means to creation(may not be the best discription but I'm trying). And If someone were questioning my faith you can pretty much bet it would become an important matter very quick. I myself am a "Creationist" not because of any facts that I have uncovered, just simply that what I belive and I cant seem to overcome it. I'm a simple person and thats the way I like to keep things "simple" but through these forums I've come to find out that I have some great christian brothers and sisters out there who are TE's, OEC's, so for me this disscussion(origins) matters little but understand why it is important to them, I just hope that we can all remain steadfast I our faith and that christ be with us all god bless and that is all.

 

[Dannager]

Mmmm, I don't think that my faith is on trial, as I've never really included evolutionary theory (which is what YECs attack) in my faith. The two have always been separate. I can say that a theory I respect is being unduly prosecuted and that as a TE I am in a position to educate others about it. That is why I am here.

 

[1denomination]

Mmmm, I don't think that my faith is on trial, as I've never really included evolutionary theory (which is what YECs attack) in my faith. The two have always been separate. I can say that a theory I respect is being unduly prosecuted and that as a TE I am in a position to educate others about it. That is why I am here.

Thats why I said most(now I no longer think all)