It never ends...

[sobresaliente]

How about we just say Catholics are not protestant and protestants are not Catholic. We can't really point to one and say whether it is Christian or not, because no denomination(Protestant or Catholic) can be 'saved', only people can be saved by accepting the sacrifice our Lord Jesus Christ made on the cross. A group of two(or is it three?) or more of these saved brethren make up a church.

I do not consider the Roman faith Christian, due to the fact that what I see in the Bible and what I see in their doctrines and catechisms are two different stories, I will give them the benefit of the doubt and say that some may have come to a point of salvation. I do not see the doctrines/beliefs of Rome as christian, but I cannot say that the souls involved are not christian because I do not know. I'm not being ugly here I am just being honest with myself and others in the forums.

Sobresaliente

 

[Phoebe]

I have just grown into a niche of going to St. John's Cathedral [yes, it's Catholic] Saturday nights (I even have my own spot, now and people recognize me). So I went this Sunday, and there was a guest Fr. there today. He gave the longest homily ever (which I was totally engrossed in, he used numbers, I love math!!) and he also handed out this handout......

(Want to discuss feelings about this, yes I know there is gramatical errors and date errors, but those were as seen on the flyer.)



I am going to comment on it, but typing that up got my fingers tired, so I'll post later.

VERY INTERESTED on ALL your opinions, thoughts, etc.

-James

Did he write it, or was it something passed on to him? (the Fr.) It's too bad you didn't have a Jack Chick publication to hand to him. I'd consider it an even trade.

 

[JVAC]

I assume he wrote it, or his office. This stuff is his specialty, I wanted to go to the classes, but I have this stupid night class tonight and I have to take a test. RRRRRRRR

I wouldn't mind talking to him about it, but the Mass was very large, and there were a lot of angry parishoners due to the length of his homily. I enjoyed it a lot, but I didn't enjoy his hand-out. The Mass lasted an hour and half, which is quite long considering they don't rarely go longer than 45-50 minutes.

-James

 

[FreeinChrist]

While we are looking at things from other peoples point of views, how about looking at this from the PRE point of view. From our POV and the above, Catholics think less of us. They do not regard us as equals. How is that any less anti-Protestantism then the anti-Catholicism we see being reported throughout OBOB? To us it is just as hateful.

Simply put you can't have it both ways. You can't accuse Protestants of being anti-Catholic while at the same time saying Protestants are less then Catholics.

Amen!

 

[Protoevangel]

Did he write it, or was it something passed on to him? (the Fr.) It's too bad you didn't have a Jack Chick publication to hand to him. I'd consider it an even trade.

Hehehehehehehehe!

Oh, I just love you Phoebe!

Hehehehehehehehe!

 

[JeffreyLloyd]

...To say that I am a member of a different religion becuase I do not belong to the Catholic denomination is just plain ignorant.

I agree!

 

[Flynmonkie]

"Make every effort to keep the unity of the Spirit through the bond of peace. There is one body and one Spirit--just as you were called to one hope when you were called--one Lord, one faith, one baptism; one God and Father of all, who is over all and through all and in all." Ephesians 2:3-6

I thought that was the important part. Yes, some of our churches have different doctrines, but, if the above is followed, were are all Christians, because we are all apart of the body of Christ. Maybe my church doesn't take communion like your church does, that doesn't mean that we still both aren't a part of the body of Christ. Does it matter how old your church is? I think what is important is what is the foundation of your faith, not your religion, but your faith.

Thats what I keep trying to say!! The Catholics keep telling me that they are the one true church! And dispell anything I have to say, even good. I am starting to get suspicious

 

[Breetai]

I didn't even know what a Jack Chick thingie was! You're right, they are good for a bonfire.

 

[Metanoia02]

While we are looking at things from other peoples point of views, how about looking at this from the PRE point of view. From our POV and the above, Catholics think less of us. They do not regard us as equals. How is that any less anti-Protestantism then the anti-Catholicism we see being reported throughout OBOB? To us it is just as hateful.

Simply put you can't have it both ways. You can't accuse Protestants of being anti-Catholic while at the same time saying Protestants are less then Catholics.

Where does it say that protestants and Catholics are not equal?

Consider these two statements:

Martin Luther started the Lutheran Church

VS

Catholic worship Mary

Do you not see one is based on historical fact and the other is based on presumption?

 

[citygirl]

Where does it say that protestants and Catholics are not equal?

Consider these two statements:

Martin Luther started the Lutheran Church

VS

Catholic worship Mary

Do you not see one is based on historical fact and the other is based on presumption?

Hi Met - long time no see!!
Anyway - I think more correct way to phrase this is that Martin Luther started the Lutheran Denomination as opposed to the Lutheran Church. We are all part of the same church started by Jesus Christ - (the catholic church).

 

[Lotar]

Where does it say that protestants and Catholics are not equal?

Consider these two statements:

Martin Luther started the Lutheran Church

VS

Catholic worship Mary

Do you not see one is based on historical fact and the other is based on presumption?

The Lutheran Church is just the continuation of the true catholic faith, it was not started by Martin Luther.

"nothing has been received among us, in doctrine or in ceremonies, that is contrary to Scripture or to the church catholic"

The Augsburg Confession

 

[Lotar]

Here is another nice quote on the subject:

-2-
​

Moreover, those followers of Bl. Martin Luther did not "split" the Church. So many of these writers
​

talk of Luther who "left the Church" but can't seem to recall that Luther as early as 1518 positively
​

begged the Holy Roman Emperor and the Pope to call a council of the Church which could fairly
​

arbitrate between the parties. They also can't seem to recall that it was not Luther who left the Roman
​

Catholic Church, but it was Pope Leo X who excommunicated Luther. Moreover, those national
​

churches in Norway, Sweden, Denmark, Iceland, Finland, Estonia, Latvia and parts of Germany which
​

embraced Luther's reforms of the Church did not "split" from the Church catholic – Rome split from
​

them and formalized its split both from the evangelical reform movement and from itself in the Council of
​

Trent.
​

Indeed, we must ask and ultimately answer the question, "Where does authority lie?" What is Rome’s
​

answer? In the words of the editor (p. x), "authority resides in Christ and the Church which He
​

established." Orthodox Lutherans could not agree more! Of course, the real question then is ‘where is
​

the Church which Christ established?’ Is it the Roman church? Or is it the Evangelical Lutheran
​

Church?
​

A​

​

favorite tactic of Roman Catholics is to ask the baiting question, ‘How old is your church?’ Rome
​

tries to answer for we Lutherans, ‘Martin Luther in 1517’ and for themselves ‘Jesus Christ in 33 A.D.’.
​

Two can play this game! Lutherans would answer for themselves ‘Jesus Christ in 33 A.D.’ and for
​

Rome, ‘the Council of Trent in 1545-63’. Of course, these answers are all far too simple and fail to
​

seriously engage the fundamental task of identifying Christ’s Church. But for those who like to play
​

simple games, the tables – as we see – can be easily turned.
​

http://orthodoxlutheran.fws1.com/relations/therewestood.pdf

 

[Photini]

Lotar,

That's pretty interesting. How does the Lutheran church view the E.Orthodox Church?

 

[Svt4Him]

Roman catholic - If I wanted to be divisive like the person who handed out the flier, I would state it was started in 312 A.D. by the Roman Emperor Constantine. But I will try to be more charitable and truthful than the person who made the flier you shared with us. Yea, I'd agree that Jesus Christ - Son of God - began this Religion in - 33 A.D. I would also agree that it is the only religion started by God... Twice. It is the continuation of the Jewish faith.

Does everyone just assume that because the RC church claims it goes back to Peter, that it does? There is no use saying to any RC that it is an unproven doctrinal issue that's written in stone, although the church history shows Rome was very against Christianity when it first started, and there is no link towards Peter and the RC. To say this is the Church started by God is not accurate, it's only a denominational belief that's been told enough it's become an axiom. It's like telling Mason's their organization didn't start with Solomon. You can show the dates, but they just don't listen, because obviously if they were started then, they are correct in all. There are many churches mentioned in the Bible, and never are they denominations, they are all city churches. And as nice as it is to say which church is from man and which is from God, I have no memory of the gift of discerning of churches.

 

[Lotar]

Lotar,

That's pretty interesting. How does the Lutheran church view the E.Orthodox Church?

Well, not to be an anti-ecumenalist, but both of our faiths cannot be the true catholic faith.

The Orthodox do hold a special place in our hearts, as we were often able to use the Greek Christians as examples to help refute abuses and claims of "no salvation outside the Church" (meaning no salvation outside the Pope). Certian things we agree with, like the distinction in authority between the different books of the Bible, marriage of preists, etc.

But many of the core reasons for the break, namely justification, seperate us from you as well as the Rome. One of our main objections was against the sophists, who were inspired by the "rediscovery" of Aristotle (meaning the Venicians sacked Constantinople and brought back Greek philosophy). As the Orthodox Church is greatly influenced by Aristotlian thought, those same objections would apply.