It is time for us to talk about impeaching Trump

[redleghunter]

But isn't pathological lying one of the qualifications for being president?

Use since 1992.

 

[mark kennedy]

Not even then, as we found out with Bill Clinton.
Even perjury (lying under oath) didn't do it.

Some people like Flynn and Manafort are in trouble, likely going to jail or will be in desperate need of pardons at some point. Across the board the Trump administration has lied about contact with the Russian government, including Sessions. Kushner and Trump jr. are under the microscope but it's hard to say if it meets the burden of proof for perjury. Trump has made every effort to stop the Russia investigation and sure made it sound like it was over Russia. Clinton was impeached for lying about a personal indiscretion, how much more serious would nefarious interactions with a foreign power be? I think the key is Sessions, or perhaps one of the White House councils. At this point Trump isn't squeaky clean but appears vulnerable in his financial practices and btw, Mueller will know more about that then Trump's accountants when this is over.

Trump has circumvented the many trappings of a high stakes Manhattan real estate development market, that took some doing. New York banks wouldn't finance him after he declared bankruptcy in that Casino escapade. The theory is he turned to other sources, especially the Deutch

Apart from the Trumps and Kushners, Deutsche Bank also has deep ties to Russia. In addition to settling allegations earlier this year that it allowed $10 billion to be laundered out of Eastern Europe, Deutsche Bank had a “cooperation agreement” with Vnesheconombank, a Russian state-owned development bank that is the target of U.S. economic sanctions. Vnesheconombank, for those who need a refresher, was the bank whose chief executive, Sergey Gorkov, Jared Kushner forgot to mention meeting in December. (Deutsche Bank Is Turning Over Information on Trump. Regulators are scrutinizing hundreds of millions in loans and a subpoena from Robert Mueller is expected. Vanity Fair)
​

Mueller will get to the bottom of this but the political fire power of this is mounting. Personally I would like to see this drag out at least until the 2018 interim elections. Should the Democrats win big in the House the whole thing picks up momentum, but I suspect will fall short of impeachment. What I'm expecting is a devastating October surprise that will dwarf the Clinton email scandal. Indictments will be handed down all over the place and Trump will pardon most or all of his staff involved. I'm just hoping the Democrats won't implode and put some party puppet on the ticket, which they have been famously doing since McGovern to Sanders. Bernie Sanders had a much better chance of beating the socks off of Trump but they wanted Clinton, which led to another epic scandal with the email wikileaks.

This is political gold for the Democrats if they can capitalize on it. The problem is they are more focused on determining the agenda and directing the consensus and far less adept at harnessing it.

This is all political pat34lee, I was disgusted with how impeachment was used in an attempt reverse the outcome of the free election of Clinton. When Johnson was impeached it came within a single vote, and that vote was cast by the one leading the impeachment. Let's be very careful here because impeachment isn't supposed to be used unless the President is breaking a core Constitutional law. Nixon refused to surrender those tapes to the Supreme Court, that was a breach of the balance of powers. Johnson didn't want the south punished after the Civil War so he went around the Congress and that was viewed as a breach. The Founding Fathers feared a dictator, an overbearing monarch like King George III would some day wield executive authority. That's why impeachment proceedings were prescribed in the Constitution and Clinton did nothing of the sort.

Impeachment is too serious to be taken lightly or to run into carelessly. We should all educate ourselves on what it means to have a Constitutional crisis on that level and never allow it be used to political ends.

Grace and peace,
Mark

 

[pat34lee]

Trump has circumvented the many trappings of a high stakes Manhattan real estate development market, that took some doing. New York banks wouldn't finance him after he declared bankruptcy in that Casino escapade. The theory is he turned to other sources, especially the Deutch

This is all political pat34lee, I was disgusted with how impeachment was used in an attempt reverse the outcome of the free election of Clinton.

A couple of matters on Clinton and Trump. Neither changed much
from what they were before becoming President. What would have
become of them had they not been elected and did the same things?

Trump would still be a rich donor and buddy to all the democrats.
Clinton would be in jail for rape, obstruction of justice and perjury,
Bill Clinton's ong history of sexual assault
among other charges. His impeachment may have been political,
especially to the left, but it was necessary, and should have been a
final nail to his career. His (and Hillary's) scandals and corrupt behavior
made Nixon look like a choirboy.

Just last year, that meeting on the plane with the AG should have landed
him obstruction charges. Who in their right mind didn't know that he
was applying pressure or offering bribes, whatever it took? Yet, he will
never be questioned, much less arrested or arraigned. Remember 'wag
the dog' and bombing an aspirin factory? All to obscure hearings on
his other scandals.
Clinton's Legacy: Another Imperial Presidency

The following article shows why the media should be vetting the candidates
before they get elected, instead of after. They were even worse with
Obama, actively whitewashing his past for him.
Arkansas Connections: A Time-line of the Clinton Years by Sam Smith

 

[pat34lee]

And about Nixon. He was impeached for perjury and obstruction, just like Clinton.
It was not about the break-in any more than about the sex.
WashingtonPost.com: Judiciary Committee Approves Article to Impeach President Nixon, 27 to 1

 

[curiouskay]

.,,Trump has circumvented the many trappings of a high stakes Manhattan real estate development market, that took some doing. [/I]New York banks wouldn't finance him after he declared bankruptcy in that Casino escapade. [/QUOTE]

His father gave him a million ($1,000,000) when he was in his 20's. He turned that into five (5) bankruptcy's leaving his creditors holding empty bags.

Such is life
-

 

[mark kennedy]

A couple of matters on Clinton and Trump. Neither changed much
from what they were before becoming President. What would have
become of them had they not been elected and did the same things?

Trump would still be a rich donor and buddy to all the democrats.
Clinton would be in jail for rape, obstruction of justice and perjury,
Bill Clinton's ong history of sexual assault
among other charges. His impeachment may have been political,
especially to the left, but it was necessary, and should have been a
final nail to his career. His (and Hillary's) scandals and corrupt behavior
made Nixon look like a choirboy.

Just last year, that meeting on the plane with the AG should have landed
him obstruction charges. Who in their right mind didn't know that he
was applying pressure or offering bribes, whatever it took? Yet, he will
never be questioned, much less arrested or arraigned. Remember 'wag
the dog' and bombing an aspirin factory? All to obscure hearings on
his other scandals.
Clinton's Legacy: Another Imperial Presidency

The following article shows why the media should be vetting the candidates
before they get elected, instead of after. They were even worse with
Obama, actively whitewashing his past for him.
Arkansas Connections: A Time-line of the Clinton Years by Sam Smith

Clinton didn't get impeached for anything that could be remotely confused with High Crimes and Misdemeanors, there was no breach of powers and there was no abuse of power. You don't like his philandering exploits and neither do I but that impeachment was all political. Trump is liable to suffer the same political fate but I'm not seeing anything calling for an impeachment, I just want him to be handed a humiliating defeat in 2020. They will do a ditch effort going into 2018 to try to get something through but after that it's all about the interim election.

By the way, you mentioned Nixon. Before his second term he had a stellar political career. After getting reelected in an historic landslide he went after his political enemies and paid a terrible price. Trump needs to watch himself, political power can go to your head.

 

[mark kennedy]

His father gave him a million ($1,000,000) when he was in his 20's. He turned that into five (5) bankruptcy's leaving his creditors holding empty bags.

Such is life
-

Sure but he found a way to live the life styles of the rich and famous on the backs of tax payers. All tolled, from the numbers I've been seeing, this administration will cost us a billion dollars. So much for draining the swamp.

 

[pat34lee]

Clinton didn't get impeached for anything that could be remotely confused with High Crimes and Misdemeanors, there was no breach of powers and there was no abuse of power. You don't like his philandering exploits and neither do I but that impeachment was all political.

Philandering was the least of it. JFK philandered.
Clinton RAPED, and used his political power to force
advances on women and then Hillary helped cover
up and tried to destroy any who came forward.
Bill Clinton's ong history of sexual assault

And as I said in the last post, he was impeached on perjury
and obstruction, the same charges as Nixon faced. If Nixon
had refused to resign, maybe he could have gotten off too.
The difference is that Republicans don't put up with corrupt
party members.

 

[mark kennedy]

Philandering was the least of it. JFK philandered.
Clinton RAPED, and used his political power to force
advances on women and then Hillary helped cover
up and tried to destroy any who came forward.
Bill Clinton's ong history of sexual assault

Thanks for the mud slinging but I got enough of that in the election.

And as I said in the last post, he was impeached on perjury
and obstruction, the same charges as Nixon faced. If Nixon
had refused to resign, maybe he could have gotten off too.
The difference is that Republicans don't put up with corrupt
party members.

Twenty-eight Republicans voted against the second perjury charge, sending it to defeat, and eighty-one voted against the abuse of power charge. A two-thirds vote, 67 votes, would have been necessary to convict and remove the President from office. The perjury charge was defeated with 45 votes for conviction and 55 against. (Senator Arlen Specter of Pennsylvania voted "not proven" for both charges, which was considered by Chief Justice Rehnquist to constitute a vote of "not guilty".) The obstruction of justice charge was defeated with 50 for conviction and 50 against. (Wikipedia, Impeachment of Bill Clinton)
​

The perjury and obstruction charge was the same thing, it came down to a false statement to a Federal Judge:

Chief Prosecutor Henry Hyde countered: "A failure to convict will make the statement that lying under oath, while unpleasant and to be avoided, is not all that serious...We have reduced lying under oath to a breach of etiquette, but only if you are the President...And now let us all take our place in history on the side of honor, and, oh, yes, let right be done." (cited above)
​

It was all political, just like the calls for impeachment of Trump. Nixon was a very different situation and the smoking gun was a tape where he agreed to let the break in be covered up and the prosecutor and AG fired if necessary. He refused to surrender the tape to the Supreme Court, that is an obvious breach of the balance of powers. He would have been impeached, there is no question about that. Johnson was in favor of the reconstruction of the south, Edwin Stanton, his Secretary of War was opposed so he fired him, in violation of the Tenure of Office Act. With Johnson there was a clear breach of powers issue between the President and Congress. With Nixon it was between the President and the Supreme Court.

You really have to understand the weight of an Impeachment, it's there for an abuse of power that threatens our Constitutional Republic. When Trump fired Comey he could have said nothing and would have been fine. He raised question if he was trying to obstruct the investigation into Russian collusion which is deadly serious. I personally think he fired Comey because he felt he was casting aspersions on his election victory but we won't know the answer any time soon.

 

[jgarden]

It is time for us to talk about impeaching Trump

What makes anyone think that "The Donald" would willingly relinquish the Presidency even if he was successfully impeached!

What makes anyone think that Trump would leave the White House in 2020 if he were to lose the next Presidential Election!

What makes anyone think that this President would be prepared to leave the White House in 2024 - even after serving the constitutional limit of 2 terms!

Trump has already claimed that the 2016 Election was "rigged" against him, in favour of the "Washington swamp," and that his opponent received 3 million illegal votes!

This is someone who has neither read nor understands the Constitution.

 

[Yonny Costopoulis]

It Is Time To Talk Impeachment

1. to accuse (a public official) before an appropriate tribunal of misconduct in office.

Pathological lying is a form of “misconduct in office” making it an impeachable offence

Dump is a pathological liar and that is NOT what we want as our President.
We, the citizens of this great Nation must act NOW
What say you, fellow Americans-?


Pathological lying (also called pseudologia fantastica and mythomania) is a behavior of habitual or compulsive lying.[1][2] It was first described in the medical literature in 1891 by Anton Delbrueck.[2] Although it is a controversial topic,[2] pathological lying has been defined as "falsification entirely disproportionate to any discernible end in view, may be extensive and very complicated, and may manifest over a period of years or even a lifetime".[1] Individuals may be aware they are lying, or may believe they are telling the truth

Psychotherapy appears to be one of the only methods to treat a person suffering from pathological lying. No research has been performed regarding the use of pharmaceutical medication to treat pathological liars
.............................................

Impeachment is the process by which a legislative body formally levels charges against a high official of government. Impeachment does not necessarily mean removal from office; it is only a formal statement of charges, akin to an indictment in criminal law, and is thus only the first step towards removal. Once an individual is impeached, he or she must then face the possibility of conviction via legislative vote, which then entails the removal of the individual from office.

Presidential Impeachment Process

Presidential Impeachment is a two stage Constitutional process. The full power of Impeachment and the removal of a sitting President resides within Congress. The actual impeachment of a President is the sole power of the House of Representatives. Once a President is impeached, the power of removing the President shifts to the U.S. Senate.

The House of Representatives starts the impeachment process by publicly investigating the charges and holding hearings. If the House of Representatives votes against impeachment the process is over and the President is not Impeached.

If the House of Representatives votes for Impeachment of the President, the process moves forward with the drawing up of the Articles of Impeachment (The official criminal charges for removal from office). The President has now been officially impeached per the United States Constitution. Once the Impeachment process is final, trials are then held in the U.S. Senate to convict or acquit the President of the Articles of Impeachment drawn against him.
.....................

It Is Time To Talk Impeachment



Trump could also be charged with obstruction of justice

b.t.w. 30 days in jail would bring him back down to earth as well


Do you agree--?

Is difficult to say.

It has become obvious that Trump is mentally impaired. Even he admit he not know healthcare is complicated. How can this be? Leaks confirm Trump go with whatever latest thing he hear on TV. Now he sound surprised to find out that Puerto Rico is surrounded by water. "Big Water, Ocean Water".

Is now clear he have no plan for anything he promise. Mexico pay for wall? Plan is to beg Mexican president. Plan for healthcare? None. Plan to fix violence in Chicago? None.

Trump can't hire anyone capable. Nearly everyone he choose is gone except for direct family. Some even turning out to be agents of foreign government. Agents of foreign government in top position of USA government. This is incompetence at highest level. And direct family are being liar and fraudstars as well and would be gone if not direct family.

Trump greatest ability is being divisive and creating chaos. That and running simple conman game like Trump University where goal is to take advantage of desperate people. Exactly like Trump do as president.

My question is mental incompetence a impeachable offense?

 

[mark kennedy]

My question is mental incompetence a impeachable offense?

He wouldn't need to be impeached, he would simply be transferred to the Bethesda Mental Ward. Impeachment is a Constitutional crisis, a breach of powers, a danger to our Constitutional Republic. Illness just means he gets treatment and the VP takes charge.

Unfortunately he is not mentally ill, he is just an overgrown spoiled brat.

 

[Copperhead]

If pathological lying is a criminal offense, then the bulk of Americans deserve time behind bars. It is not a crime to lie except under oath in a court of law. Other than that, it might be a basis of a civil suit, but not a criminal one. Impeachment is not a civil suit. Political statements are not sworn testimony.

Well, in all fairness, there has been some "rigging" of elections. When folks who are dead actually cast votes, something is messed up. When folks can register the day of the election and vote in multiple precincts without being required to prove who they are, then something is messed up.

Trump is no different than Billy Bob Clinton, Obummer, or most any other politician. The fact that many folks in the country cannot name their Congressional Representative or their Senators, who have more impact on folk's situations than the president, speaks more to the problem than who is president.

 

[seashale76]

Time to talk flaming.
The name is:
Trump.
President Trump.
Donald Trump.
The President.

Use manners even if you don't like him.

He doesn't use manners and flames others on a regular basis. Why should anyone be expected to give him the respect of the office? He doesn't deserve it. His every word and action makes a mockery of the office he was elected to. And, I didn't see anyone around here telling others to refer to Obama appropriately when he was POTUS, so give it a rest.

 

[Yonny Costopoulis]

If pathological lying is a criminal offense, then the bulk of Americans deserve time behind bars. It is not a crime to lie except under oath in a court of law. Other than that, it might be a basis of a civil suit, but not a criminal one. Impeachment is not a civil suit. Political statements are not sworn testimony.

Well, in all fairness, there has been some "rigging" of elections. When folks who are dead actually cast votes, something is messed up. When folks can register the day of the election and vote in multiple precincts without being required to prove who they are, then something is messed up.

Trump is no different than Billy Bob Clinton, Obummer, or most any other politician. The fact that many folks in the country cannot name their Congressional Representative or their Senators, who have more impact on folk's situations than the president, speaks more to the problem than who is president.

Beg to differ. There is big difference between Trump and those who come before.

Trump is intellectual incompetent. Hire terrible people. Have zero plan for anything he promise. Except get Mexico to pay for wall. We now find out great Trump plan is to get on knees and beg Mexican president. Trump ignorant of most basic knowledge required for office. Best example is Trump unaware that healthcare is complicated.

Also Trump is fool and play the clown which is bad or USA. Other world leader openly mock Trump. Trump is laughing stock of entire world. This only hurt with USA foreign policy and trade agreements. Everyone know they can say two nice thing about Trump being best and Trump will give whatever they want.

Trump is divisive. Always attempting to use racism to make significant part of base happy. Saying Mexico is sending murders and rapists. Attacking black player for kneeling. Defending Nazis and KKK.

No other president in my life come close to Trump incompetence. This not new thing in Trump life. Is no wonder Trump business go bankrupt so often.

 

[Copperhead]

Well, in all fairness, there is some truth in Trump's statements. All politicians will mix just enough truth into what they say to make it sell. Hitler did the very same thing. Goebbels, his minister of propaganda clearly outlined that people could be convinced of anything if there is just enough truth mixed in to market an idea.

Doesn't really matter. The political system as it is in America has very little left in terms of honor and commitment to the people. I have become very cynical of all parties and politicians, right down to the local dog catcher. I am sure there are folks who start out in politics that have good motives and intentions, but they either are eaten alive by the system or succumb to it.

Trump is just one little cog in the whole government gear works. No matter who is president or who they appoint to certain positions, the system is already in place and running on its own agenda. In business, I deal with a plethora of government regulatory nonsense. And it doesn't matter who gets appointed as head of any government agency by any president, or even if a position is left vacant by no appointment, the system is already in motion and is not going to change the direction of the ship. Appointed individuals are just window dressing. The system is pure Machiavelli in motion and little is going to change it.

 

[pat34lee]

Thanks for the mud slinging but I got enough of that in the election.

If you consider truth to be mud slinging because it's inconvenient
to you or you just don't agree, that is a different matter.

It was all political, just like the calls for impeachment of Trump. Nixon was a very different situation and the smoking gun was a tape where he agreed to let the break in be covered up and the prosecutor and AG fired if necessary. He refused to surrender the tape to the Supreme Court, that is an obvious breach of the balance of powers.

Nixon hid one tape. How long did the Clintons refuse to return
the FBI files they held illegally? And how many emails did they
erase? Filegate, travelgate, wag the dog, etc.
THE EPIC OF CLINTONS-MESS! | WHAT REALLY HAPPENED

 

[pat34lee]

He doesn't use manners and flames others on a regular basis. Why should anyone be expected to give him the respect of the office? He doesn't deserve it. His every word and action makes a mockery of the office he was elected to. And, I didn't see anyone around here telling others to refer to Obama appropriately when he was POTUS, so give it a rest.

Don't blame me then if you get reported for flaming next time.
You were warned. You can report Trump's manners if and when
he posts on this forum.

 

[pat34lee]

Trump is no different than Billy Bob Clinton, Obummer, or most any other politician. The fact that many folks in the country cannot name their Congressional Representative or their Senators, who have more impact on folk's situations than the president, speaks more to the problem than who is president.

Part of the rules on this sub-forum.
PLEASE READ : A change in the flaming rule

* NO Goading. This includes images, cartoons, smileys or post ratings which are clearly meant to goad. Quoting and then editing another members post to change the original meaning, commonly referred to as "fixed it for you" (FIFY), is considered goading.

* Offensive derogatory nicknames and egregious inflammatory comments about public figures may be considered goading.

 

[Paidiske]

MOD HAT ON
This thread will remain closed. ​

Egregious inflammatory comments about public figures - including the President -
are considered goading under CF rules.​

MOD HAT OFF​