It appears Trump is offically under investigation for obstruction

[High Fidelity]

The sooner he's impeached the better. He's a disaster.

He accused Qatar of funding terrorist on Friday and is now authorising a $12 billion U.S. Arms deal!

 

[Go Braves]

Washington Post. Anonymous sources. Yawn.

Weren't they the ones that uncovered the Watergate scandal with Deep Throat as the source? That turned out to be pretty legit.

 

[dgiharris]

Oh, good. I was afraid that the Democrats were never give up beating the dead Russia horse. Now they can waste half a year and untold tax payer money on this.

Wish GOP types felt this way during Clinton's impeachment

Let me tell you guys a little secret: even if they could prove that he was guilty of obstruction, which again, is going to be incredibly difficult, they don't prosecute sitting presidents. At most you will get a toothless impeachment and a slap on the wrist. Since he won't be removed from office, most Americans won't even realize that he was impeached.
.

You are absolutely wrong on this point. Obstruction of Justice in regards to investigating something that directly impacts the safety and security of the nation (i.e. influence by a foreign government) can be viewed as a form of Treason.

Here is where Trumpers are missing the forest for the Trees.

Let's say the Dems want an investigation into Russia influencing the election and corrupting TRump's inner circle. For the sake of argument, lets say Russia is 100% innocent and TRump's inner circle is 100% clean / no corruption. Obstructing that investigation is still treason. You have to let that investigation run it's course. You don't get to Obstruct investigations you think are fruitless and without merit. That is not how law works.

If Trump is guilty of Obstruction of Justice he is gone. That is an honest to goodness impeachable offense.

But, it gets better. The Republicans will want payback, and so they will be investigating Lynch and Rice, and through them, aiming for Obama. Who is no longer President, and who Sessions DoJ may have the guts to prosecute.
.

You are certifiably delusional if you think Obama has anything to worry about. If Trump is ousted Pence will take over. Pence is a real politician and he understands the office of the Presidency infinitely better than Trump does. And no sitting president would EVER prosecute a past president. Obama didn't prosecute Bush/Cheney for torture. ANd I don't even know what you could go after Obama for that would be worse than Bush/Cheney torture stuff and WMD fiasco.

I hope and pray Mueller is an honest man, and that he doesn't screw this up.

I do as well. Lets see what evidence surfaces and let the chips fall where they may.

My personal belief is that there is an 80% chance Trump gets through this. However, Trump is such an ego maniac and has no clue about government that he very well could have obstructed justice without even knowing it. In the world of business, when you are CEO you basically just try to impose your will on everyone. YOu try to make your will reality.

That doesn't work in government and that can easily lead to obstruction of justice.

 

[Fantine]

Apparently they are also investigating money laundering in the Trump administration...but obviously that's Wilbur Reed when he chaired the Bank of Cyprus.

Mueller 's investigation is expected to take 18 months to two years but I fear the swamp is even murkier than they expected.

 

[Aryeh Jay]

Now they can waste half a year and untold tax payer money on this.

I am glad that wasted time and tax payer money didn’t matter with the Benghazi investigations.

 

[Aryeh Jay]

Oh, good. I was afraid that the Democrats were never give up beating the dead Russia horse.

Apparently 97 Senators feel there is some substance to the Russia fake news. I think that number includes 2 or 3 Republicans… (or 50)

 

[Albion]

I wasn't going to post this because I know how the forum feels in general about "anonymous sources".

OK. It was posted. There's no need for it to be treated as an invitation to start yet another online insult-fest.

 

[RDKirk]

You are certifiably delusional if you think Obama has anything to worry about. If Trump is ousted Pence will take over. Pence is a real politician and he understands the office of the Presidency infinitely better than Trump does. And no sitting president would EVER prosecute a past president. Obama didn't prosecute Bush/Cheney for torture. ANd I don't even know what you could go after Obama for that would be worse than Bush/Cheney torture stuff and WMD fiasco.

More to the point, the House was about to pass a bill of impeachment against President Nixon, and in that case there was a clear charge of obstruction of justice and appeared to be a solid case. Nixon resigned instead and one of Vice-President Ford's first actions upon taking office was to officially pardon Nixon for all current and future charges against him while he was president.

 

[DaisyDay]

Oh, good. I was afraid that the Democrats were never give up beating the dead Russia horse. Now they can waste half a year and untold tax payer money on this.

The Russian investigations are not all about - or even primarily about - collusion. That came up incidentally to investigating the interference. Apparently, the Russians actually did hack into a few voting systems, but did not change the data (Source).

That members of the Trump campaign were picked up on communicating with certain Russians was a cause for concern - they couldn't very well not investigate it in case there was collusion. As far as I can tell, there wasn't any.

Let me tell you guys a little secret: even if they could prove that he was guilty of obstruction, which again, is going to be incredibly difficult, they don't prosecute sitting presidents. At most you will get a toothless impeachment and a slap on the wrist. Since he won't be removed from office, most Americans won't even realize that he was impeached.

That's fine - he just has to NOT obstruct and NOT try to intimidate people on his Enemies List.

But, it gets better. The Republicans will want payback, and so they will be investigating Lynch and Rice, and through them, aiming for Obama. Who is no longer President, and who Sessions DoJ may have the guts to prosecute.

Huh? The Republicans are in charge, but they will want payback for what they did? That sounds about right, actually.

Frankly, a Trump impeachment or resignation is more advantageous for Republicans than for Democrats - especially if, as we see them already trying to do, they can shift the blame to the party not in power. Trump is an irritant and an obstruction to the Republican agenda, which the Democrats must enjoy. Pence would be far more likely to get things Republicans want to do done. And less likely to line his own pockets while triggering a nuclear confrontation with North Korea.

I hope and pray Mueller is an honest man, and that he doesn't screw this up.

Most of us do want an honest and thorough investigation.

 

[KCfromNC]

Oh, good. I was afraid that the Democrats

If you know the identity of these evil leakers, please report it to law enforcement. But since you don't, perhaps you might want to ease up on the rhetoric.

 

[Rion]

Wish GOP types felt this way during Clinton's impeachment


You are absolutely wrong on this point. Obstruction of Justice in regards to investigating something that directly impacts the safety and security of the nation (i.e. influence by a foreign government) can be viewed as a form of Treason.

Here is where Trumpers are missing the forest for the Trees.

Let's say the Dems want an investigation into Russia influencing the election and corrupting TRump's inner circle. For the sake of argument, lets say Russia is 100% innocent and TRump's inner circle is 100% clean / no corruption. Obstructing that investigation is still treason. You have to let that investigation run it's course. You don't get to Obstruct investigations you think are fruitless and without merit. That is not how law works.

If Trump is guilty of Obstruction of Justice he is gone. That is an honest to goodness impeachable offense.



You are certifiably delusional if you think Obama has anything to worry about. If Trump is ousted Pence will take over. Pence is a real politician and he understands the office of the Presidency infinitely better than Trump does. And no sitting president would EVER prosecute a past president. Obama didn't prosecute Bush/Cheney for torture. ANd I don't even know what you could go after Obama for that would be worse than Bush/Cheney torture stuff and WMD fiasco.



I do as well. Lets see what evidence surfaces and let the chips fall where they may.

My personal belief is that there is an 80% chance Trump gets through this. However, Trump is such an ego maniac and has no clue about government that he very well could have obstructed justice without even knowing it. In the world of business, when you are CEO you basically just try to impose your will on everyone. YOu try to make your will reality.

That doesn't work in government and that can easily lead to obstruction of justice.

I really wish that when you respond to me, you would respond to ME, not some strawman you made up in your head. I have repeatedly stated that the Clinton impeachment was a waste and pointless. I have repeatedly stated that I am not a "Trumper" (which is apparently against the flame rules for whatever bizarre reason). How about instead of insulting me and accusing me of things that I never said, you try and read my posts on occasion?

My whole point, which I clarified like two posts past the one that you quoted, was that this is likely to make tension in the country worse while the political class keeps using the whole thing to stoke the fires.

Finally, as NotreDame explained in a previous thread, PROVING obstruction will be incredibly difficult. As for him not intending to, if they claim that to save the orange bacon, that will probably be the end of it. Why? Because of the idiotic press conference that Comey did where he admitted that Clinton broke the law, but didn't mean to. The political elite get to ignore the whole ignorance of the law is not an excuse bit. If they try to invoke a double standard here, welcome to riot-ville.

I also find it hilarious that you want the chips to fall where they may, but think that past presidents should be immune to prosecution.

First of all, Obama didn't prosecute Bush because he was still having people tortured, he was just outsourcing it to other nations. Secondly, you cannot base the past on future events during a paradigm shift like we are in. The petty partisan politics have been escalating for several election cycles now. In past years, we wouldn't have even gotten this far as the losing side wouldn't have staked their strategy for the next two years on a ridiculous conspiracy theory. Youcan cry about Republicans being obstructionists to Obama all you want, but this reaches the level of them investigating Obama's birth status.

I am glad that wasted time and tax payer money didn’t matter with the Benghazi investigations.

1) I wasn't even back for most of the Benghazi investigations.
2) If I had to hazard a guess from the little I remember, the whole thing was a mess because they were running arms to the Syrian rebels without tellingthe public at the time. This explains the reason for the attack, the odd situation around it, and the bizarre excuse about the movie. I am not saying that to absolve anyone, but giving my own opinion on it.
3) Tu quoque is not an argument, but a fallacy.

 

[KCfromNC]

What I worry about is that Mueller isn't as honest as we think

Weird that even the people under investigation by him don't share your concerns. I wonder where this worry is coming from. Anywhere fact-based?

 

[KCfromNC]

Wish GOP types felt this way during Clinton's impeachment

Maybe they're worried the US is all out of money after the GOP wasted it on all of the pointless Benghazi investigations. And funny how we never heard that the Clinton e-mail investigations were wastes of time. It is almost as if this objection is a transparent attempt to avoid the facts of the case.

 

[dgiharris]

.... And funny how we never heard that the Clinton e-mail investigations were wastes of time. It is almost as if this objection is a transparent attempt to avoid the facts of the case.

The hypocrisy of the GOP is what is amazing. For the sake of argument, if you honestly felt the Clinton Email stuff was worthy of an investigation and throwing her in jail then how on God's green earth can you then turn a blind eye to all of this "possible" Russia/Trump stuff?

The "possible" Russia / Trump stuff has the potential to be a thousand times more harmful to the country than Clinton's email fiasco. In the Clinton case, you have someone not adhering to proper handling of classified information. Yet in the Trump case, you have possible influence by a foreign power of our government and the president's administration (key members of the administration), in effect, you'd have TREASON!

The Clinton email fiasco would be a raisin. The Trump/Russia stuff would be a watermelon the size of the moon.

And yet, so many GOP types see no cause for worry whatsoever. Not even an investigation? In fact, the new GOP talking point is how it is "good" for us to be buddy buddy with Russia. The same GOP peoples who were critical of Obama for "not being tough enough on Russia". These same GOP peoples now feel Russia is a good ally for us. And they say all this while being harshly critical of our REAL allies like the UK, France, Germany, Australia...

What is going on? What drugs are being smoked and why wasn't I given any?

 

[wing2000]

...so predictable....


Donald J. Trump

✔@realDonaldTrump
They made up a phony collusion with the Russians story, found zero proof, so now they go for obstruction of justice on the phony story. Nice

 

[wing2000]

stay tuned for the full scale attack on Robert Mueller:

Donald J. Trump‏Verified account @realDonaldTrump
You are witnessing the single greatest WITCH HUNT in American political history - led by some very bad and conflicted people! #MAGA
4:57 AM - 15 Jun 2017

 

[camille70]

What is going on? What drugs are being smoked and why wasn't I given any?

It was Kool-aid. You didn't drink it.

 

[camille70]

stay tuned for the full scale attack on Robert Mueller:

Donald J. Trump‏Verified account @realDonaldTrump
You are witnessing the single greatest WITCH HUNT in American political history - led by some very bad and conflicted people! #MAGA
4:57 AM - 15 Jun 2017

Today's talking points:

Philip Rucker on Twitter

 

[HannahT]

The hypocrisy of the GOP is what is amazing. For the sake of argument, if you honestly felt the Clinton Email stuff was worthy of an investigation and throwing her in jail then how on God's green earth can you then turn a blind eye to all of this "possible" Russia/Trump stuff?

We haven't been told what the Russia stuff is though. I'm waiting to see what they come up with personally. I'll wait to make a judgement call.

Comey even said that many stories today that come to the press aren't accurate. They can't correct the stories. Others have said the same thing. So, we really don't know if there is any there THERE yet.

Once they come forward with what they have? We can debate the 'possible' Russia/Trump stuff. So far we don't have anything.

We had stuff with Clinton. I wish they would show something concrete with Trump, because so far all we have is rumors.

I know I was upset over Clinton due to her constant changing of her story. I also knew she wouldn't get nailed with anything. Power has its benefits. I did find it hard to believe that a woman in the political sphere for as long as she had been was totally ignorant on how to handle classified information.

Comey claims she got off due to lack of criminal intent.

This obstruction of justice deal with the conversation with Comey/Trump due to comments they claimed happened? They can't prove the criminal intent there, and it would be next to impossible to do that as well. So, I would assume there has to be something more meaty out there. We haven't heard about it.

Comey confused me with the Flynn statement, because he said he 'touches' on the investigation...but gave the impression he has nothing to do with it. His actions are independent, and possibly crimes separate. Sounds like he broke laws with not reporting some of his actions, and was fired due to misleading the VP. For months we were told Flynn was part the 'Trump/Russia' deal. Now we are told NOPE. We were told for months Trump was investigation, and then were told NOPE.

With the media being so wrong about this so far - and their sources - I'm going to wait to judge when we have something there to chew on. So far I haven't really seen it. I've heard all kinds of theories, assumptions, and loads of inaccurate stuff from secret sources too. Honestly, this issue is more confusing than it is concrete.

When Hillary was found to have NOT handed over emails when she knew she was required to? Then dragged her feet on handing them over, and then deleting some before she even did? Those were not rumors, speculation, and facts from secret sources.

I see both of circumstances troubling, but one we have something to go on. I haven't seen anything with this Trump deal yet.

 

[Go Braves]

Oh, good. I was afraid that the Democrats were never give up beating the dead Russia horse. Now they can waste half a year and untold tax payer money on this.

Let me tell you guys a little secret: even if they could prove that he was guilty of obstruction, which again, is going to be incredibly difficult, they don't prosecute sitting presidents. At most you will get a toothless impeachment and a slap on the wrist. Since he won't be removed from office, most Americans won't even realize that he was impeached.

But, it gets better. The Republicans will want payback, and so they will be investigating Lynch and Rice, and through them, aiming for Obama. Who is no longer President, and who Sessions DoJ may have the guts to prosecute.

How much time & money was wasted on Ken Starr?

I hope and pray Mueller is an honest man, and that he doesn't screw this up.

Wasn't Mueller picked by Trump as a contender for the FBI Director before he got appointed as the special prosecutor?