Israel's war with Hamas - the usual or beginning of the end?

[HisdaughterJen]

It looks like Israel's fight with Hamas is effectively taking out Hamas.

Isn't Hamas a proxy of Iran along with Hezbollah?

Is this just another fight with "malicious neighbors who are painful briers and sharp thorns" or the beginning of something bigger that could lead to Gog/magog invasion?

Psa 83:4"Come," they say, "let us destroy them as a nation, that the name of Israel be remembered no more."
Psa 83:5With one mind they plot together; they form an alliance against you--
Psa 83:6the tents of Edom and the Ishmaelites, of Moab and the Hagrites,
Psa 83:7Gebal, Ammon (Jordan) and Amalek, Philistia (GAZA), with the people of Tyre (LEBANON).
Psa 83:8Even Assyria has joined them to lend strength to the descendants of Lot. Selah

(these people are basically all muslim today)

Eze 28:24" 'No longer will the people of Israel have malicious neighbors who are painful briers and sharp thorns. Then they will know that I am the Sovereign LORD.

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,473448,00.html

"The Israel Defense Forces said Monday that the battle in Gaza was only beginning, and that "the worst is not behind us — it is still ahead of us" during a briefing to southern communities.
"After this operation there will not be one Hamas building left standing in Gaza," said IDF Deputy Chief of Staff Brigadier-General Dan Harel, according to YnetNews.
Israel carried out five separate strikes on the houses of field operatives, though there has been no confirmation that any of them were killed. In another air assault, an Islamic Jihad commander was killed as he was walking near his house."

"A group of Iranian hardline clerics volunteered to fight in the Gaza Strip in response to Israel's air strikes, the Fars news agency reported on Monday.
"From Monday the Combatant Clergy Society has activated its web site for a week to register volunteers to fight against the Zionist regime (Israel) in either the military, financial or propaganda fields," the semi-official news agency said.
Supreme Leader Ayatollah Ali Khamenei issued a religious decree to Muslims around the world on Sunday, ordering them to defend Palestinians in Gaza against Israeli attacks "in any way possible.""

 

[get it right]

isralei aircraft are keeping an eye in southern lebanon and out in the mediterranian, up to the syrian ports (russian ports).
they may not trust russia. israel has an excelent record in intelligence.

 

[Biblewriter]

A long time ago, as I watched reactions to various situations around me, I came to a conclusion that anger without fear resolves itself into scorn, but anger mixed with fear resolves itself into hatred.

Every time the Israeli army wages another successful war against its neighbors, their anger and their fear grows. And as their anger and fear grows, so does their hatred. This hatred, already intense, is being fanned into a white heat.

This is a set-up for the time spoken of by the Lord in Zechariah 13:8, And it shall come to pass, that in all the land, saith the LORD, two parts therein shall be cut off and die; but the third shall be left therein.

The hatred being produced by these repeated defeats will only make them joyfully partake in the slaughter when they finally get the chance to take their revenge.

 

[AmericanCatholic]

Isn't Hamas a proxy of Iran along with Hezbollah?

No, not really. Both Hamas and Hezbollah have their own designs.

 

[hiscosmicgoldfish2]

It’s more of the usual, bullying, disproportionate attacks by the Israelis, supported with propaganda, to bankruptcy by the US and with the connivance of their lap-dog the UK. And it continues to chip away at the tolerance of the Islamic world, for Israel. So I agree.. when the Iranians and the Russians finally do attack Israel, they will have a lot of rage against those people.
I suspect that Israel has not attacked Iran, due to the alliance of Iran with Russia, which will drag the US into a nuclear war. Israel will not attack Iran without the US permission. The recent business with the US ships in the black sea, and the Russian fleet and nuclear bombers in the Caribbean and Venezuela, is an indication of the escalation of the conflict, and also an indication of how dangerous the US sabre-rattling has been of late.
I have discovered some evidence that Israelis were provoking the Russians in Georgia, trying to provoke a suicidal war of the US and Russia. All we heard of from the ministry of propaganda (CNN/BBC) was that the Russians had attacked Georgia.. it was actually a case of the Georgians, backed by the US ‘advisors’ doing some ethnic cleansing of the ethnic Russians in Georgia, for which the Russians weren’t going to stand back and watch.
Obama might have given us some breathing space, before the final WW3, kicks off. Bush/Mc Cain/Palin would have us all nuked to hell, if they could.

 

[Big Mouth Nana]

I personally believe that it is coming down to the time of Daniel chapter 11:27 where the two Kings sit down at the table and lie to each other. In Daniel 11:24, it states that he will be able to do that which his Fathers, and his Fathers Fathers have not done. I do not believe that means literal blood related Fathers, but believe that it means a leader of a nation like the President. George Washington was known as the Father of this nation.
The Antichrist confirms a covenant with many for one week according to Daniel 9:12. With what is going on now with Israel and the Palistinains, this could very well fit into this false peace that will be set up.
Isaiah states this regarding Israel...Isaiah 28:15 & 18 ~ Because ye have said, We have made a covenant with death, and with hell are we at agreement; when the overflowing scourge shall pass through, it shall not come unto us: for we have made lies (Dan11:27) our refuge, and under falsehood have we hid ourselves:
18 And your covenant with death shall be disannulled, and your agreement with hell shall not stand; when the overflowing scourge shall pass through, then ye shall be trodden down by it...Luke 21:24 ~ And they shall fall by the edge of the sword, and shall be led away captive into all nations: and Jerusalem shall be trodden down of the Gentiles, until the times of the Gentiles be fulfilled. This is during the tribulation according to what is going on in that chapter.

 

[vinsight4u]

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[HisdaughterJen]

Has anyone noticed the common theme in Psalm 83, Ezek 28:24-26, and Ezek 38/39?

Israel is saved so that they might know Him and for the sake of God's Holy Name.


Psa 83:16Cover their faces with shame so that men will seek your name, O Lord.
...
Psa 83:18Let them know that you, whose name is the Lord-- that you alone are the Most High over all the earth.

Eze 28:24" 'No longer will the people of Israel have malicious neighbors who are painful briers and sharp thorns. Then they will know that I am the Sovereign LORD.

Eze 39:7" 'I will make known my holy name among my people Israel. I will no longer let my holy name be profaned, and the nations will know that I the LORD am the Holy One in Israel.
Eze 39:7" 'I will make known my holy name among my people Israel. I will no longer let my holy name be profaned, and the nations will know that I the LORD am the Holy One in Israel.


After this happens, people will know that the Lord has returned (not the same as the coming of Christ) but God sends a powerful delusion and people fall away.

2Th 2:11For this reason God sends them a powerful delusion so that they will believe the lie
2Th 2:12and so that all will be condemned who have not believed the truth but have delighted in wickedness.



Having said all of that, I think that any conflict Israel has with it's neighbors these days has the potential to turn into the gog/magog invasion. For Russia (as gog) to get involved, Israel would probably have to take out the nuclear reactors that Russia has been helping Iran with, I would imagine. So many people blame Israel for the problems in the world, that going into Israel may be a "pre-emptive" move by gog that the US set a precedent for in going into Iraq.

Strange days....

 

[NumberOneSon]

Watch for the robbers to fall - then Iraq will come to help them out.

Vin, this scenario would be more plausible if Saddam was still in power (and I know you made predictions about him a few years ago). Now that his government has been toppled, why would a Shi'ite-led Iraqi government have any interest in helping a Sunni-led organization? The last thing the Iraqi Shi'ites want is to give Sunnis more political stability.

In Christ,

Acts6:5

 

[vinsight4u]

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[vinsight4u]

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[vinsight4u]

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[vinsight4u]

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[vinsight4u]

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[HisdaughterJen]

Well, I still don't believe that we executed Saddam - or Iraq did. We shall see what happens after the Palestinians fall. It certainly is the time I had told people for many years now. - about 2009.

Uh....you do realize the execution is on video, right?

What do you think Daniel 10:1-2 is about?
I see it as where Daniel had seen a time of sorrow and knew it lasts for three full weeks.
In this same chapter he gets told that the vision shall befall "thy people" and the timing is the latter days.

Move now to Daniel 11:14 where "thy people" is again mentioned and we find out that a vision is to begin. Yet this chapter does not contain a vision- so this is only the story of what was earlier seen in a vision given to Daniel.
How about this is where we begin a time of 21 years - three full weeks of sorrow for Israel?
Thus, we come to around 2009 and it is time for the Palestinians to go down. But this is not the end - for someone comes to their rescue. Saddam was consistently helping the Palestinians in the past.
I'm buggged by several things as to his death - such as - why was he so insistent on knowing how he was to be killed? - Why did he starve himself - and then get out for a short time - to go to a hospital?
I'm just not convinced yet that we have seen the last of the ruler.
If someone was executed - then who was it?

In Daniel 11:15 the verse begins with "So".
This was the same wording used earlier in the chapter to reveal to us that the king from earlier verses was still around later.


v9
"So the king of the south shall come into his kingdom..."
What king of the south? The same guy from earlier in the prophecy.

Daniel 10:1
"...a thing was revealed to Daniel...the time appointed was long...he understood...had understanding of the vision."
v2
"In those days I Daniel was mourning three full weeks."

Why?
It certainly wasn't so he could gain understanding. He wasn't praying, fasting or such so an angel would come to him and explain things. He was sad - because he knew that a horrible time of sadness will one day come down on Israel.
Just as Jesus has foretold of the time of the beginning of sorrows.
I believe that Jesus was speaking of the vision shown to Daniel - and it lasts 21 years. Most of this time - nearly all of it is now past.

began - around - Nov. 15, 1988
so then add 21 years - and we come to 2009

Your posts are real head-scratchers....

 

[vinsight4u]

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[Big Mouth Nana]

Having said all of that, I think that any conflict Israel has with it's neighbors these days has the potential to turn into the gog/magog invasion.

Gog/Magog doesn't happen until the 1000 years are over. There appears to be two senerios... Eze 38 and Rev 20. I believe that these are the same events, as Eze 38 says when my people of Israel dwelleth safely. They aren't dwelling safely now, but will during the 1000 years when Satan is bound. In Rev 20 after Satan is released to deceive the nations, Gog/Magog goes up against Israel and God destroys them. These different books have to be talking about the same event. I think the next big event that involves nations will be Armageddon where all nations are gathered in the Valley of Decision (Jehoshapat)...WW111.
Joel 3:2 ~ I will also gather all nations, and will bring them down into the valley of Jehoshaphat, and will plead with them there for my people and for my heritage Israel, whom they have scattered among the nations, and parted my land.
God judges them in this valley.

 

[HisdaughterJen]

Hey to you, HisdaughterJen

Do you see what causes me (for many years now) to see Daniel 10 as being about the endtimes?
Verse 1 contains a vision experience and yet why didn't Daniel write out the details for us?
He was so sad over it - yet he didn't say too much about what will happen.
-
the time appointed is long

This is interesting as here is what Strong's has for that part.


tsaba' (tsaw-baw');
or (feminine) tseba'ah (tseb-aw-aw'); from 6633; a mass of persons (or figuratively, things), especially reg. organized for war (an army); by implication, a campaign, literally or figuratively (specifically, hardship, worship):
KJV-- appointed time, (+)army, (+)battle, company, host, service, soldiers, waiting upon, war (-fare).

It was a time of war that was to come upon Israel that he saw that made him mourn for three full weeks.

What happens? Where are the play by play details of what he saw?

Daniel 11:14 is where a vision begins to unfold. A story - an account is given as to a vision is established with the exalting of the robbers - as in other nations do not say these robbers are a people - but the robbers claim their own independence.

Just as when David was dying and his son exalted himself - claiming that he was the next king - when Solomon had been promised the throne.

Yes, I actually do see what you are saying about Daniel 10. Daniel is shown a vision but it's contents are not revealed to us....unless Daniel 11 is a continuation of Daniel 10....which the NIV version seems to point out:

Dan 10:21but first I will tell you what is written in the Book of Truth. (No one supports me against them except Michael, your prince.
Dan 11:1And in the first year of Darius the Mede, I took my stand to support and protect him.)

(NOTICE the parentheses start in Daniel 10 and end in Daniel 11:1)

[Regarding Daniel 11, it is my understanding of history that a good portion of Daniel 11 was fulfilled in the Medes/Persian era. Historically, much of Daniel 11 has been fulfilled.]

Yeah, it looks like Daniel 10, 11, and 12 are all one visit by the angel and one vision.

 

[HisdaughterJen]

Gog/Magog doesn't happen until the 1000 years are over. There appears to be two senerios... Eze 38 and Rev 20. I believe that these are the same events, as Eze 38 says when my people of Israel dwelleth safely. They aren't dwelling safely now, but will during the 1000 years when Satan is bound. In Rev 20 after Satan is released to deceive the nations, Gog/Magog goes up against Israel and God destroys them. These different books have to be talking about the same event. I think the next big event that involves nations will be Armageddon where all nations are gathered in the Valley of Decision (Jehoshapat)...WW111.
Joel 3:2 ~ I will also gather all nations, and will bring them down into the valley of Jehoshaphat, and will plead with them there for my people and for my heritage Israel, whom they have scattered among the nations, and parted my land.
God judges them in this valley.

Well, I agree with you that there are two scenarios involving gog-magog and one of them is definitely at the end of the millennium...I don't think they are the same event.

I think that gog is a spiritual "prince" such as is described in Daniel 10 and could be satan, himself.

I think that Ezek's gog goes against Israel for the purpose of plundering and looting. When Ezek's gog happens, Israel will have been regathered back to her land (therefore, living in safety as opposed to scattered) but ignorant of God.

I think that Rev's gog goes against Israel in order to make a final stand against God's authority. Israel will have been the place from which God reigns during the millennium. They will definitely have known who their God is during the millennium.

 

[vinsight4u]

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