Israel's future and Pat: Your view

[Edial]

And I am speaking based on census data that the Israeli government puts out. Yes, there are a lot of very religious people in Jerusalem, however the vast majority of them are Muslims. "Reform" Judaism is basically religion sans God and is more a cultural ethical system, as are many types of conservative Jew. The only really religious group are Orthodox Jews, whom I both tend to like and respect.

Then we can agree that it is unlikely that many of the Jews would state that "there is no God".

Thanks,
Ed

 

[KEPLER]

Interesting comparison to idolatry. (I need to think about this).

What do you mean by "dispensationalists", since most are dispensationalists to a certain degree, such as a definite "break" in many things at the cross?

Israel an anti-Christ?
I also need to think about this, since it is indeed located on 7 hills and Jerusalem is clearly referred to as the figurative Sodom ...

REV 11:7 Now when they have finished their testimony, the beast that comes up from the Abyss will attack them, and overpower and kill them. 8 Their bodies will lie in the street of the great city, which is figuratively called Sodom and Egypt, where also their Lord was crucified.

But if it is an anti-Christ, it certainly is clear that our Lord is maintaining its existance, so many from within it be saved.

This reminds me of a basic principle text:

2PE 3:8 But do not forget this one thing, dear friends: With the Lord a day is like a thousand years, and a thousand years are like a day. 9 The Lord is not slow in keeping his promise, as some understand slowness. He is patient with you, not wanting anyone to perish, but everyone to come to repentance.

Complicated, and is rather fascinating in a troubling way.

I guess my initial statement that I do not understand, spreads a bit further.

Thanks,
Ed

G'Morning, Ed.

Don't take me too literally. Part of what I said was hyperbole...

I mean "Capital D" Dispensationalism, a la Scofield and Hal Lindsey, etc.

The LORD is patient not just with political Israel, but indeed with the whole world, wishing that many should come to repentance.

Kepler

 

[Jesus Is Real]

G'Morning, Ed.

Don't take me too literally. Part of what I said was hyperbole...

I mean "Capital D" Dispensationalism, a la Scofield and Hal Lindsey, etc.

The LORD is patient not just with political Israel, but indeed with the whole world, wishing that many should come to repentance.

Kepler

Kepler,

[bible]Romans 11:26[/bible]
[bible]Romans 11:22-23[/bible]
[bible]Romans 11:30-31[/bible]
[bible]Romans 11:28[/bible]

,...that through your mercy they also may obtain mercy,....if they abide not still in unbelief,... shall be grafted in: for God is able to graft them in again. God is able---->In the sence,....IF GOD CAN WORK OUT
HIS LOVE PERFECTLY through you and through me.

But we must die to the flesh nature. Kepler, I believe you are showing HIS FRUIT toward this end in mentioning that The Lord is Patient!

In His love,
Connie

 

[Tishri1]

http://www.conceptwizard.com/info.html

there are quite a few available and they really speak to the world the Truth behind Israel and why it is the way it is

 

[Tishri1]

here is another look inside our media bias'

http://www.seconddraft.org/movies.php

please watch this

 

[OnTheWay]

http://www.conceptwizard.com/info.html

there are quite a few available and they really speak to the world the Truth behind Israel and why it is the way it is

Yes, we all know that execpting Israel to behave like a civilized nation is anti-Semitism.
For one, anti-Semitism is largely a misnomer. Most Israeli Jews are Khazars and are NOT a Semitic people.
If one ventures over to Middle East Realities you can see lots of photos of Muslims pulling children out of cars that have been burned alive in Israeli rocket attacks or the IDF bulldozing people's homes.
The truth of the matter is the only difference between Hamas and the IDF is that Hamas doesn't recieve billions of dollars in cash and weapons to carry out their terrorist war.

 

[Jesus Is Real]

NO. God's Word never says anything about Israel making a Covenant with anti-Christ. Period.

That is a complete misunderstanding of Daniel 9.

Daniel 9 is utterly and completely about Jesus.

K

Kepler,

Well hello there, back!
Since you brought up Daniel 9, let's look at it together ok?

Ahh, you might want to print this out, this is not for
the light reader who sometimes doesn't have a lot of time, but
print it out if you want too and take your time, I know I have to
take my time with things. Now I'm reading from the KJV but if
you read from another translation (not knocking them) but it
may conflict with what you have previously been taught. So
go carefully over in your Bible so that you can make a choice
for the Word of God rather than the traditions of men.

This is not about your church or mine.
Nor a doctrine verses anothers doctrine, ok?
This whole doctrine is about our death with Jesus Christ to
understand and hear what is to come through His Holy Spirit
of Promise! That said,.......

DEFINITION:
But we all can clearly see that it's about Jesus (yes) but about
Him dealing with "Israel" (again as a nation) who are secular-Israel
and those who are Religious and the pagan of "Israel." In other words,
those who call themselves "Israel" in the Land of Israel, Israel by blood,
by race. The natural branch, we are the wild branch who have been grafted
in. But God's addressing towards Daniel "The natural branch."

Isn't it strange how we have to define this so many times.

NOW:
One thing with Israel is they want to start going again the 'daily Sacrifices' and to set up their Temple in Jerusalem to have a Holy of Holies again: Jesus calls it "in the holy place" (Matt. 24:15b). This is common knowledge through out the whole world. And Daniel 8-9 at least mentions the "sacrifices and oblations" while Jesus mentions 'the holy place' which is The Holy of Holies inside the Temple. We can't argue about this now, IT IS WRITTEN.


Now regarding the Sacrifice and the Temple in this time, is no Accident,.....it's IN GOD'S TIMING for this to happen!


DANIEL 9:
THIS WHOLE TOPIC, IN DANIEL 9 is Yes about JESUS, your right---and.
It's also about what God's going to do with ISRAEL (definition named above).
And what he allows to happen through THE ANTI-CHRIST.
So, with all due respect unto you, there is not any "period", as you believe after, naming Jesus in Dan. 9. For, actually, there are many things going on and you must see them, if you can. And If I can, communicate it to the both of us, while reading GOD'S WORD.

I get pretty lengthy at times,.......so bear with me, please.

Now Jesus Christ opened wide this "Daniel seal" when He was here, HE IS GOD!! And there is nothing hidden, He spoken nothing in secret, right?
So, if we love "The Truth" it won't be thrown down from our hearts.

________________________________________________________
VERY IMPORTANT:
But it can only be "Israel" who makes the "Holy Sacrifices" in the pleasant land <-----the Promised Land. Physically speaking, God will have His end with Israel for Salvation while some of Israel (who are not all Israel) the end will be damnation since they've stayed in their own disbelief.
Which is our ends too, for either or.

IT'S ABOUT----> "Rom 11:28b but as touching the election, they are beloved for the fathers' sakes. which is "ISRAEL" who God first began to teach them about Sacrifices and Oblations. Now many of them will be saved if they stay not in their unbelief.
__________________________________________________________


In God's language in the Old Testament: THIS IS THE ANTI-TRUTH
In God's language in the New Testament:THIS IS THE ANTI-CHRIST
[bible]Daniel 8:9-10[/bible]
",....one,...came forth a little horn,..."
A very bad dude! Let me introduce you to "Satan" in those verses of 9-10.

Now let's these this out, ok?

In Daniel 8 a vision is told.
At the end of this same Daniel 8, understanding of this same vision, in detail is told. That 'little horn' comes with great destruction. This "little horn" is NOT JESUS CHRIST. Nope it ain't. But let's see, ok?

THUS COMES ANTI-TRUTH ON TO THE SCENE:
YES WE WILL ALSO SEE "JESUS CHRIST" AS WELL:

Let's look!

[bible]Daniel 8:22-23[/bible]

Notice the next verse:
Dan 8:24
24 And his power shall be mighty, but not by his own power:

Now you know why I did my introduction with 'Satan' ealier.

Dan 8:24
and he shall destroy wonderfully, and shall prosper, and practise, and shall destroy the mighty and the holy people. <-------Still doesn't look like Jesus Christ here, to me,....does it you?

Daniel 8 tells of how long the days of (Daniel 9 "Covenant") will last.

Daniel 9 confirms that the Covenant will be broken in the middle of the Week.


It is Written:

Dan 9:21
21 Yea, whiles I was speaking in prayer, even the man Gabriel, whom I had seen in the vision at the beginning, being caused to fly swiftly, touched me about the time of the evening oblation.

Dan 9:22-23
22 And he informed me, and talked with me, and said, O Daniel, I am now come forth to give thee skill and understanding.

23 At the beginning of thy supplications the commandment came forth, and I am come to shew thee; for thou art greatly beloved: therefore understand the matter, and consider the vision.



This verse (24) is about 3 mentions:
1. "thy people" -------> Gabriel was talking to Daniel AN ISREALITE.
2. the Holy City (Jerusalem, Daniel know where that is)
3. The Most Holy (Jesus, Daniel know to be GOD--Who is JESUS)

Dan 9:24
24 Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy.


NOTICE THE WORD: JERUSALEM (Daniel knows where this place is
Dan 9:25-26
25 Know therefore and understand, that from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem unto the Messiah the Prince shall be seven weeks, and threescore and two weeks: the street shall be built again, and the wall, even in troublous times.

26 And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: ------> But the rest of the verse talks about THE VISION IN DANIEL 8.
_______MESSIAH IS CUT OFF BUT NOT FOR HIMSELF_________
And the vision continues to be told about.


Now, let's review:
This little horn is so far called:
1. 'a king ' (Dan. 8:23)
2. 'the prince' that shall come (Dan. 9:26b)


IN COMES:

THE ANTI-TRUTH:
THE ANTI-CHRIST:
Jesus mentioning this too here:
Matt 24:11 And many false prophets shall rise, and shall deceive many.
[bible]Daniel 9:26-27[/bible]
v.26: ,...and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined.

Look:
",....and the people of the prince (this Anti-Truth/Christ) shall confirm a covenant with many for ONE WEEK. The word "Week" lets you know that it's about "Israel" along with 'many.' He's not talking about with Mexico alone or some other place, remember it's Gabriel talking TO DANIEL AN ISRAELITE who loves God and who will receive "his lot" (Dan. 12:13) in The PROMISED LAND in the end of the days. Now we can all pick up 'Spiritual meanings here' but this is all going to happen literally with this little-horn, and with Israel and with many and which at that time hadn't happened yet with Jesus-The Messiah. So, if it has happened Literally with The Messiah it will Literally happen with:
1. Israel and with
2. many who join the Anti-Truth/Christ. Many will take His Evil Mark/Name.

Regarding the word 'desolate in verse 26:'
Does this bring your spirit-man to recall Matthew 24?
One question that was asked, that fits rightly here to say is when they asked, "and what shall be the sign of THY COMING?" (Meaning Christ doesn't not come back BEFOR the sign is given,....but they are a sign bringing you to understand that HIS COMING IS NEAR. In other words, when you are stopped at a red-light, you can't move your car through the on coming traffic before you get the green-light or you will be hit.

Daniel 9:27 **God's still taking about this "prince who brings desolation."
27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease,

So this, FALSE-PROPHET, ANTI-CHRIST, ANTI-TRUTH will cause Israel from doing their sacifieces and oblations unto THE GOD OF ISRAEL.

In conclusion:
When ever this happens,........THERE HE WILL BE.
THE ANTI-CHRIST, THE ANTI-TRUTH A FALSE PROPHET LEAGUED WITH MANY
FALSE PROPHETS THEMSELVES.
And He will be in the power of Satan, he will be of the flesh-nature:
Much in rage and anger, selfish, self-seeking, worldly and demonic which
James warns US ALL to flee these ways.
And He will bring in much war and destruction, coming in Satan's power
to "Steal, Kill and destroy:" to make desolate!
He is already a destroyer, empowered by Satan if he's living right now.
He is unsave able, twice dead this man will be who makes a covanent with
Israel for peace, but it will be a false-peace that brings in much Abominations.





So, Daniel 9 is far from ONLY BEING ABOUT "JESUS" PERIOD.
Read your own bible chapters 8 and 9, again.
I'm just watering here,.....God gives the increase not me and thank GOD it's not me who can, chuckles,...or I would probably do a bad job at it.

Love is Patient, Love is Kind,...


Peace to all who Call Upon The Name of The Lord from a Pure Heart,
Connie

 

[Jesus Is Real]

http://www.conceptwizard.com/info.html

there are quite a few available and they really speak to the world the Truth behind Israel and why it is the way it is

Yes, very factual.

British gave the land,...and it's been a hellious-fight ever since.
This was to Israel's hurt, for the most part.
And the Anti-Truth/Messiah-Christ will be to Israel's hurt as well,
but GOD, unto those of "Israel" who don't stay in their unbelief,
WILL COME TO SAVE THE DAY, Literally!!!


"unbelief"----> it's amazing that God warns the Church of this
very thing,....lest God swears in His Wrath TO US that we will
not be premitted in His Rest.

I think many of us aren't in HIS REST. We are still so
hot tempered at times,....too much strivings. But God does have
much to say to us if we can slow down and listen!
I know I want to listen more, don't you?

The others who have joined leagues with the Anti-Christ, as many will, including the secular Israel will be divided on Christ' left side: Goats.

While the Anti-Truth/Christ will be destroyed with the Brightness of Christ' coming. And many things will come to and end and even the heavens and the earth will be dissolved.


[bible]2 Peter 3:11[/bible]
I judge that God through Peter is telling us more than
what "many" want to hear. We who are "Gentiles" need to be preaching
Christ and Him Crucified (for the most part) and we dead to sin IN HIM.

Let us be about THE MASTER'S BUSINESS!

In His love,
Connie

 

[Jesus Is Real]

Yes, we all know that execpting Israel to behave like a civilized nation is anti-Semitism.
For one, anti-Semitism is largely a misnomer. Most Israeli Jews are Khazars and are NOT a Semitic people.
If one ventures over to Middle East Realities you can see lots of photos of Muslims pulling children out of cars that have been burned alive in Israeli rocket attacks or the IDF bulldozing people's homes.
The truth of the matter is the only difference between Hamas and the IDF is that Hamas doesn't recieve billions of dollars in cash and weapons to carry out their terrorist war.

OnTheWay,

Do you know there was a time in your past when you didn't believe God,
but now you received mercy,through "Israel's" unbelief?

And it's a good thing God has done to you, to proper you and give you a hope and a wishful end, through Isreal's disobedience to God.

But now, God aquires you/and me to give this mercy back to them!
And God is judging our hearts on this, right now.


Connie

 

[Jesus Is Real]

Yes, we all know that execpting Israel to behave like a civilized nation is anti-Semitism.
For one, anti-Semitism is largely a misnomer. Most Israeli Jews are Khazars and are NOT a Semitic people.
If one ventures over to Middle East Realities you can see lots of photos of Muslims pulling children out of cars that have been burned alive in Israeli rocket attacks or the IDF bulldozing people's homes.
The truth of the matter is the only difference between Hamas and the IDF is that Hamas doesn't recieve billions of dollars in cash and weapons to carry out their terrorist war.

OnTheWay,

And we must forgive it all.
Whether your an arab.
Whether your an Israeli.
Whether your an American.
Or whether your a Mexican, or Irish, or French decent.

FORGIVE THEM ALL, if we want Mercy ourselves of having doing
our own destructions being empowered by Satan himself.

Because the one who sets destruction in our midst is not
by their own power, but by anothers: But by SATAN.

The Lord rebukes Satan by the Blood of Jesus.
Salvation is of the Jew's and if we want to not be cut off then
we must love them and extend our mercy out to them in kindness
and in much Patience. If we don't show them what Meekness and
Lowliness looks like carrying our own Crosses then how will "the elect"
ever see how it looks like?

But God would send one of us to them to love them through His Perfect Love? LORD SEND "ONTHEWAY" AND SEND ME TOO!!!
But first He must prepare out hearts, and make us clean and ready
to share the Love of Jesus to them in all humility and in much patience.

Salvation is brought by those Who Praise GOD with a pure heart.
He does not send defiled vessels.
Connie

 

[Wavy]

ezekiel 37:16-28

 

[Jesus Is Real]

I do not understand certain flavor that appears to come out in this thread.
And this is a head over heels favorable attitude towards Israel.

The Judaics in Jerusalem are truly against the believers.
There is a 2% Christian population in Israel (that includes all that call themselves Christians). A great number of them are also Arabs (Palestinians).

Do you know the things the Judaics do against the believers in Jerusalem?

There are certain things that I understand and certain things that I do not.

This is what I understand:

1. The Judaics soundly rejected the Messiah.
2. After much grieving, Christ gave them over.
3. Christ also called them the children of the devil.
4. They will no longer be restored again unless they recognize the Messiah and bless him.

AND this is what I understand what should the role of believers must be concerning the Judaics of today.

RO 11:28 As far as the gospel is concerned, they are enemies on your account; but as far as election is concerned, they are loved on account of the patriarchs, 29 for God's gifts and his call are irrevocable.

They are our enemies as far as the gospel goes. And consequently, they are also Christ's enemies, since the gospel IS him.

However, they are preserved by God due to the fact that he has fond feelings towards their forefathers, the Patriarchs.

So, the Christians should not be the ones that persecute them, as the means of God's punishment.

The Christians must help them once they are persecuted and once they turn to the Christians, as they were doing during the WW2.

This is what I do not understand:
Why are there so many believers that are falling head over heels over Israel?

I am pro-Israel. Because the Bible is pro-Israel, due to God's fond feelings towards the Patriarchs. But I do not know the Patriarchs as God does. So, I would refuse to use my "natural" anti-Israel reasoning.

Yet I am against Israel, since the majority of the Jews in there are Judaics that persecute the believers fiercely.

So, there must be a balance.

But to fall head over heels over Israel - makes no sense. No sense whatsoever.

Thanks,
Ed

Ed,

Hey there!

Yes some your points are pretty right on.........but listen!

It was by their unbelief that you gained mercy.
Just extend it back.......even by your words on a forum,
I'm sure their hearts are supernatually listening,........well
God's heart is? And we must Fear Him, right?

3. Christ also called them the children of the devil.

Now,....now (lol) Christ said 'because you seek to kill me.'
Those who have anger in their heart for no (reason) has already
commend murder in their hearts.......when we act like that yes
Christ has somewhat STILL against us....and would say that we
are of your Father the Devil, when we act in anger or in haste
to rush in too quickly when God isn't saying to do a thing.

Hasn't he convicted you of this very thing too.....even recently.......well it was no different speaking to those who DID WISH to kill him, who were anger at him without a cause. Are you anger at God without a cause, at times? Sure you are,.....we all are. We kick our cats - shout at our kids why? Because OUR LIFE isn't going our way at times. Were angry at God, without a cause!


Your no different then them.......they are human, like you! This was the whole meaning of the Gospels and the Epistles and the Journey from Egypt into the Wilderness and onto the Promised Land. We, in heart and body and soul, are just like them.

So, non of us can really 'point any fingers' any more, lest we tempt God as some of them (The C-of-Israel) did also in the Wilderness and perished. :o

Take Care Ed,
Connie

 

[Jesus Is Real]

ezekiel 37:16-28

[bible]Ezekiel 37:16-28[/bible]

Amen,.......now this "Covenant" is an Everlasting Covanent that won't be BROKEN IN THE midst OF "NO" WEEK--for it's AN EVERLASTING COVENANT!!!

Very good, thanks!!!

_______________________________________
From studying this:

But there is an EVIL AGREEMENT COMING THAT WILL
ONLY "MAKE DESOLATE" <---------JESUS' WORDS!!!!!

Daniel speaks of it and Jesus establishes it as a truthful saying that will happen! GOD CAN NOT LIE.

It appears that The Anti-Christ confirms 'THE COVENANT' of God regarding Israel,.......in other words The "Little-Horn" which we know to be The Anti-Christ agrees with Israel of keeping The Law and of making Sacrifices and the like.

Like in our day we say, "Saving Face." So the Anti-Christ saves face with Israel for a time, but his motive is PRIDE AND GREED AND RAGE. So in the ~midst~ of the week He causes Israel to not carry out their Law with Sacrifices and oblations and this Anti-Christ will bring ABOMINATION to the top of the cup!

But this confirmation that they extend to Israel is what Gabriel tells Daniel, "Desolations are determined."

IN OTHER WORDS:
This "little-horn" is up to NO GOOD! :o
ISRAEL WILL RECEIVE THIS 'LITTLE-HORN' and destruction
will come.

:o :o
[bible]John 5:43[/bible]
:o :o

Uhh,......I like those icon colors!


Being Found in Peace In Him,
Connie

 

[Gwenyfur]

Ezekiel 37:16-2816 Moreover, thou son of man, take thee one stick, and write upon it, For Judah, and for the children of Israel his companions: then take another stick, and write upon it, For Joseph, the stick of Ephraim, and for all the house of Israel his companions: 17 And join them one to another into one stick; and they shall become one in thine hand. 18 And when the children of thy people shall speak unto thee, saying, Wilt thou not show us what thou meanest by these? 19 Say unto them, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Behold, I will take the stick of Joseph, which is in the hand of Ephraim, and the tribes of Israel his fellows, and will put them with him, even with the stick of Judah, and make them one stick, and they shall be one in mine hand. 20 And the sticks whereon thou writest shall be in thine hand before their eyes. 21 And say unto them, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Behold, I will take the children of Israel from among the heathen, whither they be gone, and will gather them on every side, and bring them into their own land: 22 And I will make them one nation in the land upon the mountains of Israel; and one king shall be king to them all: and they shall be no more two nations, neither shall they be divided into two kingdoms any more at all: 23 Neither shall they defile themselves any more with their idols, nor with their detestable things, nor with any of their transgressions: but I will save them out of all their dwellingplaces, wherein they have sinned, and will cleanse them: so shall they be my people, and I will be their God. 24 And David my servant shall be king over them; and they all shall have one shepherd: they shall also walk in my judgments, and observe my statutes, and do them. 25 And they shall dwell in the land that I have given unto Jacob my servant, wherein your fathers have dwelt; and they shall dwell therein, even they, and their children, and their children's children for ever: and my servant David shall be their prince for ever. 26 Moreover I will make a covenant of peace with them; it shall be an everlasting covenant with them: and I will place them, and multiply them, and will set my sanctuary in the midst of them for evermore. 27 My tabernacle also shall be with them: yea, I will be their God, and they shall be my people. 28 And the heathen shall know that I the LORD do sanctify Israel, when my sanctuary shall be in the midst of them for evermore.

Amen,.......now this "Covenant" is an Everlasting Covanent that won't be BROKEN IN THE midst OF "NO" WEEK--for it's AN EVERLASTING COVENANT!!!

 

[Jesus Is Real]

Praise God now we are TOGETHER PRAISING GOD!!!
WE DO THE DANCE OF JOY NOW!!!




_________
But not all Israel are of Israel.....you know that right?
This "not all Israel" will receive another who comes in his own name, this is to come, very soon.......and destuctions are determined.

Rom 9:6
6 Not as though the word of God hath taken none effect. For they are not all Israel, which are of Israel:KJV


And that there are trouble times ahead!!!

 

[GraceInHim]

jsisrl.. your words are right on.. read your posts.. thanks for the clarification

 

[OnTheWay]

OnTheWay,

Do you know there was a time in your past when you didn't believe God,
but now you received mercy,through "Israel's" unbelief?

Mercy comes to man by the unending grace of God. What other men do or do not do has no impact on that love.

And it's a good thing God has done to you, to proper you and give you a hope and a wishful end, through Isreal's disobedience to God.

Christ came to save all mankind by restoring creation. What the secular state of Israel does or does not do makes no difference.

But now, God aquires you/and me to give this mercy back to them!
And God is judging our hearts on this, right now.

In reality God requires them to take up their crosses and follow after Christ just like every other man.

 

[Wavy]

I do not understand certain flavor that appears to come out in this thread.
And this is a head over heels favorable attitude towards Israel.

The Judaics in Jerusalem are truly against the believers.
There is a 2% Christian population in Israel (that includes all that call themselves Christians). A great number of them are also Arabs (Palestinians).

Do you know the things the Judaics do against the believers in Jerusalem?

There are certain things that I understand and certain things that I do not.

This is what I understand:

1. The Judaics soundly rejected the Messiah.
2. After much grieving, Christ gave them over.
3. Christ also called them the children of the devil.
4. They will no longer be restored again unless they recognize the Messiah and bless him.

AND this is what I understand what should the role of believers must be concerning the Judaics of today.

RO 11:28 As far as the gospel is concerned, they are enemies on your account; but as far as election is concerned, they are loved on account of the patriarchs, 29 for God's gifts and his call are irrevocable.

They are our enemies as far as the gospel goes. And consequently, they are also Christ's enemies, since the gospel IS him.

However, they are preserved by God due to the fact that he has fond feelings towards their forefathers, the Patriarchs.

So, the Christians should not be the ones that persecute them, as the means of God's punishment.

The Christians must help them once they are persecuted and once they turn to the Christians, as they were doing during the WW2.

This is what I do not understand:
Why are there so many believers that are falling head over heels over Israel?

I am pro-Israel. Because the Bible is pro-Israel, due to God's fond feelings towards the Patriarchs. But I do not know the Patriarchs as God does. So, I would refuse to use my "natural" anti-Israel reasoning.

Yet I am against Israel, since the majority of the Jews in there are Judaics that persecute the believers fiercely.

So, there must be a balance.

But to fall head over heels over Israel - makes no sense. No sense whatsoever.

Thanks,
Ed

Firstly, Christian rejection and hate of Jews has survived from the first-century. Many early "Christians" were anti-semitic. Many of the so called "church fathers" were anti-semitic. Martin Luther was anti-semitic.


Secondly, the "Jews" are not all Israel. They are found in all nations and make up millions of people all over the world regardless if they know it or not.


Thirdly, there is a remnant from both houses of Israel (Romans 11:5), which I believe is Nazarene Israel, or the followers of the Way, as they were also called in the first century (they were the historical first followers of Messiah).


Fourthly, Messiah didn't call all Jews "children of the devil". He was speaking to those who were trying to kill him in that specific passage. Indeed, when the Spirit came on Shavuot in Acts 2, torah guarding Jews and those from the nations (who I believe were Ephraim Israelm, and Peter collectively called them all "men of Israel") were present. Calling all Jews "children of the devil" is a lawless, gentile, erroneous view that, as I have said, is evident all over first century writings.


I believe much of Christianity and Judaism and the way they treat and view each other is what is mentioned in Isaiah 11:13. Eventually, this will cease. When the majority of Judah comes to Messiah and when Ephraim (the fullness of the nations - Genesis 48:19; Romans 11:25) realizes their heritage and comes to torah and stops trying to convert Jews to their lawless, pagan form of beliefs in a "church"!

 

[OnTheWay]

Salvation is of the Jew's and if we want to not be cut off then

Salvation is through following Christ. worshipping Jews will only lead to death.

we must love them and extend our mercy out to them in kindness
and in much Patience. If we don't show them what Meekness and
Lowliness looks like carrying our own Crosses then how will "the elect"
ever see how it looks like?

The elect, the holy priesthood, the chosen of God are those within the Christ's Church. For as St. Paul tell's us if you are Christ's then you are Abraham's. As such they can see and haven seen the example of Jesus Christ in Scripture and in their lives through the Holy Spirit.
As for the Great Comission to covert the unbelievers, be they the followers of Judaism or Mohammed, requires us to teach them Christian virtures. Virtues like turning the other cheek as opposed to rocket attacks on car loads of women and children. That going for both Jew and Muslim alike. Depensationalist nonsense was created less than two centuries ago and is never going to be anything but yet more false teaching. When will protestants learn to leave the book of Revelation alone?

 

[Jesus Is Real]

jsisrl.. your words are right on.. read your posts.. thanks for the clarification

The letter of the Word has been given and through Jesus
there is no misunderstanding.

But the Spirit of The Word, we must enter or we all will engage into
agreement with 'one who will come in his own name' namely that "Little-horn."

Which is after the working of Satan, which is one with the works of the flesh and the flesh nature!

So we must be about the Holy Spirit's leading in all things!



So, you might say, I am for GOD and for those who are RIGHT IN HIM, BECAUSE ALL THINGS WILL BE NEW:
[bible]2 Peter 3:11-13[/bible]

Now does 1 Peter 3, come against Israel having the Land as a forever thing?

Nope.

JESUS' WORDS THROUGH THE HOLY SPIRIT ONLY ESTABLISHES "THE EVERLASTING COVENANT", which if Heaven and Earth will pass away which means also the "pleasant land" which is in bondage right now, WHICH MEANS RECEIVING JESUS CHRIST- WORLD WITHOUT END!!!


In other words, THE TRUE ISRAEL, WILL INHERIT THE (WHOLE) EARTH,.........in other words THE WORLD WITHOUT END = JESUS CHRIST!! In a NEW HEAVEN AND in a NEW EARTH.