Israeli Gaza raid kills 180, wounds 800

[BereanTodd]

With out weapons there is no way to fight Israeli tyranny, with out resistance against Israeli tyranny they will cement the blockade... then there will be no way to get food or weapons. The priority must be the freedom of the Palestinian people and the destruction of the colonial state of israel.

eliminate israel and you eliminate the obsticals to the freedom of the palestinian people in all regards. given a choice between a gun or a loaf of bread, i'd say pass the amunition. because that loaf of bread will feed you for a few days, but then you are back where you started. that gun can eliminate that zionist tyranny that prevents you from haveing that bread...

Does anything else need to be said??? I am sadened, sickened and horrified that this person here is espounsing violence, armed violence, armed violence in preference to humanitarian aid, and the utter destruction of the state of Israel.

Sha'alu Shalom Yerushalayim.

 

[fated]

I guess even snooty people on the internet who know nothing of the reality think they're smarter than everyone else.

I know Palestine, I know Palestinians. Hamas winning the election does not surprise me, nor does it surprise any Palestinian. Fatah and the PLO are Israeli agents who have done nothing for the Palestinian people in 40 years in power other than to collect their Israeli cheques every month. People voted for Hamas because we want freedom, we want our nation and we want to take back what has been stolen from us. Hamas was the only party that legitimatly could say they would seek these goals.

Well, after the division, the West Bank seems to moved up the prosperity scale, while Gaza has declined. Simply noting Palestine this or that seems too simple.


I disagree, because I see the tyranny in Gaza as an act of "co-operation" between Hamas and Israel. Not least of all, because Israel's actions are pretty obvious when one performs a particular action.

 

[mpok1519]

why do people fight over cursed scorched earth?

 

[seashale76]

BereanTodd,

It's all well and good to say what you do. However, I do wonder if you'd be such a pacifist if you had experienced what FrenchAffair obviously has. I'd like to say that I'd stick with being a pacifist myself, however, under similar circumstances I just don't know that I can claim such things.

The secular state of Israel isn't God's Chosen People and people need to wake up to that. Israel can do wrong and does often. Zionism is an ugly thing.

I saw pictures today that a Palestinian friend of mine had posted of dead children, lots of blood, and obviously innocent people who had to live through this latest Israeli insanity. Of course, some Israel can do no wrong rapturists on another board were posting dancing smiley faces, rejoicing b/c they felt the Palestinians were getting what was coming to them. I wonder if they would have kept it up had they seen the pics of the dead children. They're all ready for Damascus to be bombed to bits.

 

[fated]

why do people fight over cursed scorched earth?

It's their home. It's cursed by human hands. It's scorched by hatred.

 

[mpok1519]

seems not to be worth it really.

if someone wanted my home that bad to make my life a living hell i'd probably just leave...

 

[Secundulus]

I saw pictures today that a Palestinian friend of mine had posted of dead children, lots of blood, and obviously innocent people who had to live through this latest Israeli insanity. Of course, some Israel can do no wrong rapturists on another board were posting dancing smiley faces, rejoicing b/c they felt the Palestinians were getting what was coming to them. I wonder if they would have kept it up had they seen the pics of the dead children. They're all ready for Damascus to be bombed to bits.

Whose fault is this? Is it Israel's?

Hamas MP Fathi Hammad: We Used Women and Children as Human Shields ​

Following are excerpts from a speech delivered by Hamas MP Fathi Hammad, which aired on Al-Aqsa TV on February 29, 2008.

Fathi Hammad: [The enemies of Allah] do not know that the Palestinian people has developed its [methods] of death and death-seeking. For the Palestinian people, death has become an industry, at which women excel, and so do all the people living on this land. The elderly excel at this, and so do the mujahideen and the children. This is why they have formed human shields of the women, the children, the elderly, and the mujahideen, in order to challenge the Zionist bombing machine. It is as if they were saying to the Zionist enemy: "We desire death like you desire life."
source: http://www.memritv.org/clip_transcript/en/1710.htm

And kindly cut out the comments like, "Israel can do no wrong rapturists." and " wonder if they would have kept it up had they seen the pics of the dead children." I for one am personally and intimately familiar with the sight and smell of piles of "executed" bodies and the sight and sounds of their wives and daughters crying around them.

And, to save you the trouble of asking, this unforgettable experience was courtesy, not of the evil Jews, but of Orthodox Christians in 1999.

I support Israel because Israel is our ally and Hamas, a proxy of Iran, is our enemy. There is a humanitarian disaster underway and it is the fault of Hamas and Hamas alone. If you take the time to study the techniques of Hamas, including terrorism of its own people, you will find that they have absolutely no interest in the welfare of the Palestinian people. Their sole interest is in Islamic resurgence by any means necessary. The only possible solution to this is the removal of Hamas from any influence in the affairs of Palestine. Another cease fire only gives them the time to rearm and prolong the misery.

Because the stupid and naive politicians of both Israel and the USA facilitated the emergence of Hamas as a political power, they will now have to accept that the death of civilians in the short run is the only possible path to eliminating the deaths of civilians in the future.

 

[Thekla]

As mentioned, at least Taybeh (West Bank) has no water for most of the week, has one checkpoint for exit of goods and people - clogged all day - the farmers there have no access to their fields and basically is economically in bad shape. I heard this from a resident of Taybeh not two weeks ago.

 

[fated]

Whose fault is this? Is it Israel's?

Hamas MP Fathi Hammad: We Used Women and Children as Human Shields ​

Following are excerpts from a speech delivered by Hamas MP Fathi Hammad, which aired on Al-Aqsa TV on February 29, 2008.

Fathi Hammad: [The enemies of Allah] do not know that the Palestinian people has developed its [methods] of death and death-seeking. For the Palestinian people, death has become an industry, at which women excel, and so do all the people living on this land. The elderly excel at this, and so do the mujahideen and the children. This is why they have formed human shields of the women, the children, the elderly, and the mujahideen, in order to challenge the Zionist bombing machine. It is as if they were saying to the Zionist enemy: "We desire death like you desire life."
source: http://www.memritv.org/clip_transcript/en/1710.htm

And kindly cut out the comments like, "Israel can do no wrong rapturists." and " wonder if they would have kept it up had they seen the pics of the dead children." I for one am personally and intimately familiar with the sight and smell of piles of "executed" bodies and the sight and sounds of their wives and daughters crying around them.

And, to save you the trouble of asking, this unforgettable experience was courtesy, not of the evil Jews, but of Orthodox Christians in 1999.

I support Israel because Israel is our ally and Hamas, a proxy of Iran, is our enemy. There is a humanitarian disaster underway and it is the fault of Hamas and Hamas alone. If you take the time to study the techniques of Hamas, including terrorism of its own people, you will find that they have absolutely no interest in the welfare of the Palestinian people. Their sole interest is in Islamic resurgence by any means necessary. The only possible solution to this is the removal of Hamas from any influence in the affairs of Palestine. Another cease fire only gives them the time to rearm and prolong the misery.

Because the stupid and naive politicians of both Israel and the USA facilitated the emergence of Hamas as a political power, they will now have to accept that the death of civilians in the short run is the only possible path to eliminating the deaths of civilians in the future.

When someone dies from your bomb it isn't their fault alone. War interacts in morality in a somewhat mutable way, because of the nature of... scaled self defense. BUT, and injustice is still inflicted on the populace attacked. So, it makes far more sense to treat any military action like a natural disaster on a massive scale occurred (there's a thread of theological thought there... "natural disaster"), and use a corresponding humanitarian response.

 

[Col3_11n12]

if someone wanted my home that bad to make my life a living hell i'd probably just leave...

Agreed, but the Palestinians don't have that option. Tony blair's own sister-in-law couldn't even get out for quite awhile, and she's not even Palestinian. 40 other WESTERNERS she arrived with, they left by running the Israeli blockade:

http://pajamasmedia.com/blog/tony-blairs-sister-in-laws-gaza-media-show/

Fulbright scholars, got their scholarships cancelled to American schools because they were Palestinian and Israel would not let them leave:

http://www.iie.org/cies/stories/s_sakram.htm


Not allowing people to leave is a violation of international law.

 

[Blackness]

Why is this America's problem? If they want to fight over land no bigger than New Jersey to decide who owns it. Let them.

 

[fated]

As mentioned, at least Taybeh (West Bank) has no water for most of the week, has one checkpoint for exit of goods and people - clogged all day - the farmers there have no access to their fields and basically is economically in bad shape. I heard this from a resident of Taybeh not two weeks ago.

Obviously I have a lot of disagreements with Israel, they seem very very lazy about insuring that basic rights are afforded to Palestinians. Which is why their nation seems to be fascist itself. Filled with self love and hate for Palestine, which while understandable is completely unacceptable.

Israel, why the crackdown on the West Bank?

 

[Secundulus]

When someone dies from your bomb it isn't their fault alone. War interacts in morality in a somewhat mutable way, because of the nature of... scaled self defense. BUT, and injustice is still inflicted on the populace attacked. So, it makes far more sense to treat any military action like a natural disaster on a massive scale occurred (there's a thread of theological thought there... "natural disaster"), and use a corresponding humanitarian response.

I agree in theory. War is an intrinsic evil no matter who starts it.

The question to be answered is whether a short term humanitarian relief at the expense of a longer war is preferable to a short term humanitarian disaster with the opportunity of ending the war.

The answer is not simple and no solution is moral. Either way, civilians continue to die. Either way, Israel will be demonized by the world. Either way, Iran will continue to hate us.

Do we seek a short term answer or a possibility of a permanent answer?

 

[Secundulus]

Why is this America's problem? If they want to fight over land no bigger than New Jersey to decide who owns it. Let them.

Geopolitical reality and national interest.

 

[fated]

I agree in theory. War is an intrinsic evil no matter who starts it.

The question to be answered is whether a short term humanitarian relief at the expense of a longer war is preferable to a short term humanitarian disaster with the opportunity of ending the war.

The answer is not simple and no solution is moral. Either way, civilians continue to die. Either way, Israel will be demonized by the world. Either way, Iran will continue to hate us.

Do we seek a short term answer or a possibility of a permanent answer?

If Israel is expansionist and cannot even relax roadblocks trade barriers in peaceful areas, then it has no right wage war, especially because it has no capacity to obtain any victory. Also, war and humanitarian aid are not mutually exclusive.

 

[seashale76]

Secundulus,

You must have not read my other post. Quote me where I said Hamas was wonderful. And I will not kindly stop talking about the reality of the evils of Zionism and how rapturists do truly believe the secular state of Israel is infallible and they do rejoice at any violence started by said secular state. You must not know some of the same people I do. They are so far removed from reality that they do post dancing smilies at the mere thought of people dying so their rapture can happen. They can't wait for the moment the Temple Institute rebuilds the Temple. They can't wait for Damascus to be levelled. If they're Christians dying, then they'll go to heaven. Maybe Jews will go to heaven too (depending). If they're anybody else, then they've obviously had the opportunity to accept Jesus as Savior and rejected Him anyway and will go to hell. That's the unfortunate mindset. I know it because I used to believe it myself.

Hearing the ugly truth of it should get your dander up.

 

[Col3_11n12]

I know it because I used to believe it myself.

That makes at least two of us.

 

[FrenchAffair]

Does anything else need to be said??? I am sadened, sickened and horrified that this person here is espounsing violence, armed violence, armed violence in preference to humanitarian aid, and the utter destruction of the state of Israel.

What you should be saddened, sickened and horrified by is the abandonment of Christianity to support the socialist ideology of zionism. Because if there is one issue that is black and white, it is that Christianity and Zionism can not co-exist.

 

[FrenchAffair]

Well, after the division, the West Bank seems to moved up the prosperity scale, while Gaza has declined. Simply noting Palestine this or that seems too simple.

This only prove what I said. Fatah which Israel & America backed in their coup in west bank operates with Israeli approval. As long as Fatah toes Israels line Israel does not enact punishment upon the people of the West Bank. Do not be fooled, there is no freedom in Palestine, there is no sovereignty for Palestinians. Everything at some point is controlled by Israel.

Fatah in the West Bank is the agent of ISrael, so Israel gives them the benifits of being their proxy. Where Hamas, the rightful leadership of Palestine dose not come hat in hand to Israel... so Israel has punished the people of Gaza. They have besigned Gaza, refuse humanitarian supplies let a lone any supply into Gaza, they have enacted widespread and mass suffering of the people of Gaza to punish them for supporting Hamas who will not be the dog of Israel.

 

[FrenchAffair]

BereanTodd,

It's all well and good to say what you do. However, I do wonder if you'd be such a pacifist if you had experienced what FrenchAffair obviously has. I'd like to say that I'd stick with being a pacifist myself, however, under similar circumstances I just don't know that I can claim such things.

The secular state of Israel isn't God's Chosen People and people need to wake up to that. Israel can do wrong and does often. Zionism is an ugly thing.

I saw pictures today that a Palestinian friend of mine had posted of dead children, lots of blood, and obviously innocent people who had to live through this latest Israeli insanity. Of course, some Israel can do no wrong rapturists on another board were posting dancing smiley faces, rejoicing b/c they felt the Palestinians were getting what was coming to them. I wonder if they would have kept it up had they seen the pics of the dead children. They're all ready for Damascus to be bombed to bits.

Even Jesus was not a pacifist, he abhored violence but he knew that sometimes there are evils so great that we must fight to protect ourselves, those we love and what is right. He did not shy away from arming his men or violently turning out the money changers. Because their afront was so great that there were no pasifictic way to confront that evil, that evil had to be confornted with a force it could not refuse.

the evil of zionism is one of many in this world that must be fought with any means posible. The occupation, genocide, ethnic cleaning and apartheid of the Palestinian people that has been perpetrated by zionists for almost 100 years in Palestine is an evil that we can not jsut sit back and hope it will work it self out.

Palestine will be free, there is no question of this. The armed struggle against the european colonists for the freedom and soverginty of the Palestinian people is a fight that they will never win. The matter of victory is only a matter of time, and the more we struggle and suffer the quicker this victory will be achived.

I pray every night that one day I will be able to take my children to my homeland, to let them walk on the land that I did as a child, that my father did as a child, that his father did as a child. The land that was stolen from me as all of Palestine has been stolen. And if for that prary to be answered we must take up the cause of armed resistance to tyranny, I believe wholly that Christ would be on the front lines with us had he walked the earth today.