Israel or Palestine

[Zstar]

Does the religious books state it and how?

 

[Bumble Bee]

Which religious books?

 

[Zstar]

Why cant There be some kind of Declaration, why do these peoples hate each other so much - an election of words and prophets - deceivers - claims to certain portions of land?

Why not go forward together?

Is some books or prophets more important than keeping the children safe and working together?

 

[Zstar]

Which religious books?

Torah or Koran....

ect.

 

[BaconWizard]

Torah or Koran....

ect.

It is a fight over land and resources mostly, which over its course has inevitably developed into a fight about recent pain, suffering, loss, anger etc. Do not forget that despite the fact that there's a lot of land, much of it is dessert. Both people are trapped. A fight would have been no less guaranteed than if we'd had shoved 2 ant colonies into a single bucket.

With a huge amount invested into it: not only land but a place to belong for an entire people. Home. Making a stand, and literally God-given rights (so both parties claim)

I feel it is a mistake to imagine this is mainly a religious issue though. If there were enough land for everyone and their plans as a nation, there would be much less of a fight or perhaps none at all.

As has been pointed out on other threads, these 2 cultures are actually the same people genetically speaking (and indeed according to scripture) and lived peacefully together (with a huge minority on part of the Jews, though) historically.

But such conflict as was inevitable when GB and the UN transplanted an entire people into the middle of the region, then how different other people are becomes very important indeed. This is partly a function of not actually knowing any at a personal level. Religious difference and political rhetoric get invested into one's view of the other's actions disproportionately.

We see this time and time again. Immigration is rarely as much of a problem in situations where immigrants and several generations native-born folks live side-by-side, but IS where 2 communities live separately, effectively with a border. Likewise, ordinary people who have suffered unfairly, rarely wish to inflict the same kind of suffering upon other ordinary people. It is those who do NOT identify who have no empathy. And in war, this is both manufactured and happens by itself, until empathy is all but nonexistent which enables further and greater warfare.

Add into that mix, the fact that within both sides are parties who depend upon the conflict for their raison-d'etre and grasp upon power, who hold extreme views, will both exacerbate the situation either deliberately or with narrow and short-term thinking and then use extreme measures at great cost to everyone else.

Let us not also forget that there is money and political gain to made in war for various interfering global influences too: Countries of course, but also multinational corporations who sell arms and influence policy with funding inside in the supporting regimes behind each side, backed by a mandate among those populations that is manufactured by the press: USA and GB on one hand, Egypt, Syria, Jordan and others on the other. Who knows what China is doing, I doubt its nothing.

In short, nobody really cares what the books say anymore. That's an excuse, not a reason and there's a whole lot more going on than that; it's a mess.

 

[ContraMundum]

The Word "Palestine" is not in the Torah, that is certain. I doubt also that it is in the Quran, but I might be wrong. It is a Latin-based name.

 

[BaconWizard]

The Word "Palestine" is not in the Torah, that is certain. I doubt also that it is in the Quran, but I might be wrong. It is a Latin-based name.

Palestine - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Here ya go (I haven't bothered to check the citations though, couldn't be bothered!)

 

[ViaCrucis]

The Word "Palestine" is not in the Torah, that is certain. I doubt also that it is in the Quran, but I might be wrong. It is a Latin-based name.

Originally Greek. The region of Syria-Palestine is mentioned in Greek sources going back several hundred years before the Common Era.

"The pillars which Sesostris erected in the conquered countries have for the most part disappeared; but in the part of Syria called Palestine, I myself saw them still standing," - Herodotus, The Histories

"Moreover Palestine and Syria too are not barren of exemplary wisdom and virtue, which countries no slight portion of that most populous nation of the Jews inhabits. There is a portion of those people called Essenes" - Philo of Alexandria, Every Good Man is Free, XII

-CryptoLutheran

 

[ContraMundum]

Yeah, I thought of the Greek after I posted. What I meant to say was that the word was ressurected by the Latins.

 

[Zstar]

It is a fight over land and resources mostly, which over its course has inevitably developed into a fight about recent pain, suffering, loss, anger etc. Do not forget that despite the fact that there's a lot of land, much of it is dessert. Both people are trapped. A fight would have been no less guaranteed than if we'd had shoved 2 ant colonies into a single bucket.

With a huge amount invested into it: not only land but a place to belong for an entire people. Home. Making a stand, and literally God-given rights (so both parties claim)

I feel it is a mistake to imagine this is mainly a religious issue though. If there were enough land for everyone and their plans as a nation, there would be much less of a fight or perhaps none at all.

As has been pointed out on other threads, these 2 cultures are actually the same people genetically speaking (and indeed according to scripture) and lived peacefully together (with a huge minority on part of the Jews, though) historically.

But such conflict as was inevitable when GB and the UN transplanted an entire people into the middle of the region, then how different other people are becomes very important indeed. This is partly a function of not actually knowing any at a personal level. Religious difference and political rhetoric get invested into one's view of the other's actions disproportionately.

We see this time and time again. Immigration is rarely as much of a problem in situations where immigrants and several generations native-born folks live side-by-side, but IS where 2 communities live separately, effectively with a border. Likewise, ordinary people who have suffered unfairly, rarely wish to inflict the same kind of suffering upon other ordinary people. It is those who do NOT identify who have no empathy. And in war, this is both manufactured and happens by itself, until empathy is all but nonexistent which enables further and greater warfare.

Add into that mix, the fact that within both sides are parties who depend upon the conflict for their raison-d'etre and grasp upon power, who hold extreme views, will both exacerbate the situation either deliberately or with narrow and short-term thinking and then use extreme measures at great cost to everyone else.

Let us not also forget that there is money and political gain to made in war for various interfering global influences too: Countries of course, but also multinational corporations who sell arms and influence policy with funding inside in the supporting regimes behind each side, backed by a mandate among those populations that is manufactured by the press: USA and GB on one hand, Egypt, Syria, Jordan and others on the other. Who knows what China is doing, I doubt its nothing.

In short, nobody really cares what the books say anymore. That's an excuse, not a reason and there's a whole lot more going on than that; it's a mess.

Makes sense -

 

[Zstar]

The Word "Palestine" is not in the Torah, that is certain. I doubt also that it is in the Quran, but I might be wrong. It is a Latin-based name.

Thanks!

What a joke some can claim a portion of land and not even think about helping others with their resources - my Christian perspective perhaps...

 

[Zstar]

Originally Greek. The region of Syria-Palestine is mentioned in Greek sources going back several hundred years before the Common Era.

"The pillars which Sesostris erected in the conquered countries have for the most part disappeared; but in the part of Syria called Palestine, I myself saw them still standing," - Herodotus, The Histories

"Moreover Palestine and Syria too are not barren of exemplary wisdom and virtue, which countries no slight portion of that most populous nation of the Jews inhabits. There is a portion of those people called Essenes" - Philo of Alexandria, Every Good Man is Free, XII

-CryptoLutheran

Essen's, sounds like the Dead Sea Scrolls had a big impression on them - Why didn't Jesus write words ... now we have to take second hand accounts. Must have meant it to be that way, being born again is life changing and not disputable - - - something happenes - i had the experience.

As a Christian i focus on the Gospels - I depended on what was in the rest of the bible then and it too a lot of effort to learn just what Jesus taught.

If your a 'Christian', learn his teachings and build your foundation on them lest he say 'I never knew you"

 

[Zstar]

The Word "Palestine" is not in the Torah, that is certain. I doubt also that it is in the Quran, but I might be wrong. It is a Latin-based name.

Sounds like man made doctrines...

 

[Zstar]

Both are condemned by God (Palestine is not mentioned but Gaza is). They will fight until Russia reluctantly invades Israel.

Not to say the rest of the world isn't condemned too.

Yes there are different kingdoms throughout times. Do you know somethings on that? you could write?

 

[Aryeh Jay]

Both are condemned by God (Palestine is not mentioned but Gaza is). They will fight until Russia reluctantly invades Israel.

Not to say the rest of the world isn't condemned too.

Oh, it is? Please show the chapter and verse that the word “Gaza” appears.

 

[Aryeh Jay]

Legalistic hahahahaha

Jesus hates legalism

Hahaha, didn’t think you could.

God hates liars more.

 

[LoAmmi]

Legalistic hahahahaha

Jesus hates legalism

http://i.lvme.me/u4sluch.jpg

 

[Zstar]

copy/paste

Gaza, part of the biblical “land of the Philistines” was the place where Samson toppled the Temple of Dagon on his enemies, giving his life in the process.

Interesting!

Could the symbols of iron, ect. in Daniel mean kingdoms?

We all know there will one Kingdom of God one day - this fighting is getting old...

 

[Zstar]

Take a look at the ancient maps instead of casting words at one another, besides where did Jesus say the Kingdom is - doesn't prevent fanatics from saying this piece of land is the one... and called this... it is a mystery to me???

 

[ContraMundum]

Oh, it is? Please show the chapter and verse that the word “Gaza” appears.

Just from the Tanach?

Gen 10:19 And the territory of the Canaanites extended from Sidon in the direction of Gerar as far as Gaza, and in the direction of Sodom, Gomorrah, Admah, and Zeboiim, as far as Lasha.

Deu. 2:23 As for the Avvim, who lived in villages as far as Gaza, the Caphtorim, who came from Caphtor, destroyed them and settled in their place.)

Jos 10:41 And Joshua struck them from Kadesh-barnea as far as Gaza, and all the country of Goshen, as far as Gibeon.

Jos 11:22 There was none of the Anakim left in the land of the people of Israel. Only in Gaza, in Gath, and in Ashdod did some remain.

Jos 13:3 (from the Shihor, which is east of Egypt, northward to the boundary of Ekron, it is counted as Canaanite; there are five rulers of the Philistines, those of Gaza, Ashdod, Ashkelon, Gath, and Ekron), and those of the Avvim,

Jos 15:47 Ashdod, its towns and its villages; Gaza, its towns and its villages; to the Brook of Egypt, and the Great Sea with its coastline.

Jdg 1:18 Judah also captured Gaza with its territory, and Ashkelon with its territory, and Ekron with its territory.

Jdg 6:4 They would encamp against them and devour the produce of the land, as far as Gaza, and leave no sustenance in Israel and no sheep or ox or donkey.

Jdg 16:1 Samson went to Gaza, and there he saw a prostitute, and he went in to her.

Jdg 16:21 And the Philistines seized him and gouged out his eyes and brought him down to Gaza and bound him with bronze shackles. And he ground at the mill in the prison.

1Sa 6:17 These are the golden tumors that the Philistines returned as a guilt offering to the LORD: one for Ashdod, one for Gaza, one for Ashkelon, one for Gath, one for Ekron,

1Ki 4:24 For he had dominion over all the region west of the Euphrates from Tiphsah to Gaza, over all the kings west of the Euphrates. And he had peace on all sides around him.

2Ki 18:8 He struck down the Philistines as far as Gaza and its territory, from watchtower to fortified city.

Jer 25:20 and all the mixed tribes among them; all the kings of the land of Uz and all the kings of the land of the Philistines (Ashkelon, Gaza, Ekron, and the remnant of Ashdod);

Jer 47:1 The word of the LORD that came to Jeremiah the prophet concerning the Philistines, before Pharaoh struck down Gaza.

Jer 47:5 Baldness has come upon Gaza; Ashkelon has perished. O remnant of their valley, how long will you gash yourselves?

Amo 1:6 Thus says the LORD: "For three transgressions of Gaza, and for four, I will not revoke the punishment, because they carried into exile a whole people to deliver them up to Edom.

Amo 1:7 So I will send a fire upon the wall of Gaza, and it shall devour her strongholds.

Zep 2:4 For Gaza shall be deserted, and Ashkelon shall become a desolation; Ashdod's people shall be driven out at noon, and Ekron shall be uprooted.

Zec 9:5 Ashkelon shall see it, and be afraid; Gaza too, and shall writhe in anguish; Ekron also, because its hopes are confounded. The king shall perish from Gaza; Ashkelon shall be uninhabited;

Also in the NT:

Act 8:26 Now an angel of the Lord said to Philip, "Rise and go toward the south to the road that goes down from Jerusalem to Gaza." This is a desert place.