Israel-Hamas Thread II

wing2000 · Nov 19, 2023

o_mlly said:
The Israeli military announces publicly its intent to destroy these compromised targets, declaring that civilians left in the area at the declared time will not be its responsibility. This warning might, admittedly, allow the Hamas terrorists to escape with valuable equipment, but the Israelis still believe it important to destroy military-use targets while showing clear due care respect for innocent civilians. In the context of war, many think that such action satisfies the "due care" principle. So do I.

Civilians were told to leave. However, there were no safe exit routes or, for the at matter, desinations. Hamas could potentially have assessts anywhere that would become a target of Israeli air strikes. The population was told to go south...even as bombing raids occured in theat area, albeit less intensely than the north. This past week, Israel told people to leave the south. Where is one to go?

essentialsaltes · Nov 19, 2023

32 babies in critical condition are among the 291 patients left at Gaza’s main hospital, U.N. team says

Israel’s military has been searching the hospital for a Hamas command center that it alleges is located under the building — a claim Hamas and the hospital staff deny.

civilwarbuff · Nov 19, 2023

wing2000 said:
...I guess Israel has all military options open becasue Hamas could surrender.

Short of the use of illegal weapons/weapons of mass destruction, (ie: nuclear-chemical-biological), yes. I would agree with your position.

truthpls · Nov 19, 2023

civilwarbuff said:
They had not rejected Him when he commanded them to do so.

Bingo. They sure have NOW though. Nor did God command the unbelieving modern nation called Israel to do anything ever

civilwarbuff said:
That's the reason they followed his command. So, once more since you didn't bother to answer the question the first time: Did God command the Hebrews to do evil by killing everyone and everything (men, women, children, animals)? Try addressing the question this time.

Since there is zero relation to the nation called Israel today what would it matter to the topic? The difference is day and night, right and wrong, Satan or Jesus etc. When God commands something there are real and holy reasons for it. There is no connection to modern Israel there whatsoever. On the contrary. We see evil being done and children being mass murdered etc.

truthpls · Nov 19, 2023

Aussie Pete said:
It should never have come to this. However, Hamas is entirely responsible for every casualty on both sides.

No more than Santa is responsible. The ones firing the bombs that kill the people are responsible totally. Why they claim to do it doesn't matter at all.

rjs330 · Nov 19, 2023

truthpls said:
No more than Santa is responsible. The ones firing the bombs that kill the people are responsible totally. Why they claim to do it doesn't matter at all.

Yes Hamas firing on Israeli troops from residential areas, schools and hospitals are responsible, totally. The consequences for their actions are clear. It's their fault and their responsibility alone.

truthpls · Nov 19, 2023

rjs330 said:
Yes Hamas firing on Israeli troops from residential areas, schools and hospitals are responsible, totally. The consequences for their actions are clear. It's their fault and their responsibility alone.

I don't agree. If Oswald fired from a book repository building, then they don't blow up the building and neighborhood. They find the guy if they can.

rjs330 · Nov 19, 2023

truthpls said:
I don't agree. If Oswald fired from a book repository building, then they don't blow up the building and neighborhood. They find the guy if they can.

We weren't at war with Oswald. Apples Oranges.

wing2000 · Nov 19, 2023

civilwarbuff said:
Short of the use of illegal weapons/weapons of mass destruction, (ie: nuclear-chemical-biological), yes. I would agree with your position.

That isn't my position, but I now understand you have limits.

Tinker Grey · Nov 19, 2023

wing2000 said:
That isn't my position, but I now understand you have limits.

Apparently, "they started it" is now a moral position.

JosephZ · Nov 19, 2023

Hamas resumes hostage talks and narrows gaps with Israel, sources say

Negotiations to secure a deal for the release of dozens of hostages being held in Gaza are back on and showing modest progress after a pause lasting several days, three sources with direct knowledge of the issue tell Axios.

The talks between Israel, the U.S. and Hamas are being mediated by Qatar.

Qatari Prime Minister Mohammed Bin Abdulrahman al-Thani said on Sunday that he is confident a deal is close and the gaps between the parties are small and mostly of logistical nature.

If a deal is reached it will be implemented in two phases, the sources with direct knowledge say:

In the first phase, Hamas is to release around 50 women and children in exchange for a five-day pause in the fighting.

As the five-day pause continues, Hamas will locate more women and children that it claims are being held hostage by other factions so that they could be released in a second phase.

Hamas is not holding all of the Israeli and international hostages taken on Oct. 7. Some are believed to be held by other militant or criminal groups.

Israel doesn't know the exact number of women and children Hamas is holding or is aware of, but Israeli officials believe there are around 20-28 more than the 50 Hamas has said it's holding.

civilwarbuff · Nov 19, 2023

truthpls said:
Bingo. They sure have NOW though.

Wasn't a reference to now. Get your time lines straight.

truthpls said:
Nor did God command the unbelieving modern nation called Israel to do anything ever

And you know that because you are in direct communication with God about that subject?

civilwarbuff · Nov 19, 2023

truthpls said:
Since there is zero relation to the nation called Israel today what would it matter to the topic?

So you can't or won't answer the question. That's all you had to say instead of waste our time.

o_mlly · Nov 19, 2023

wing2000 said:
Civilians were told to leave. However, there were no safe exit routes or, for the at matter, desinations. Hamas could potentially have assessts anywhere that would become a target of Israeli air strikes. The population was told to go south...even as bombing raids occured in theat area, albeit less intensely than the north. This past week, Israel told people to leave the south. Where is one to go?

The "due care" as referenced in my post refers to only particular compromised targets, that otherwise would be presumed innocent and not the entire theater of war.

As to potential vs. probable or certain compromises, the due care principle implies that competent and well-trained officers and soldiers gather and analyze quality intelligence on the precise nature of suspected targets. While certainty may not be possible in some cases, today's spy technology more often than not can determine compromises with high probability.

o_mlly · Nov 19, 2023

Tinker Grey said:
Apparently, "they started it" is now a moral position.

Always has been a moral principle of a just war. One would have difficulty claiming self-defense if they initiated the violence.

civilwarbuff · Nov 19, 2023

Tinker Grey said:
Apparently, "they started it" is now a moral position.

It started WWII for us......no one complained about the methods used to end it.......

rjs330 · Nov 19, 2023

Tinker Grey said:
Apparently, "they started it" is now a moral position.

Preventing evil from killing your people would be a moral position for a government in this scenario. Especially if evil was the instigator.

Carl Emerson · Nov 19, 2023

civilwarbuff said:
Of course they all went there and counted the bodies, right? I mean, who would be stupid enough to trust HAMAS' health ministry's word for something?......you know, that terrorist group who lies, rapes, murders men, women, children and infants. I mean, what purpose could they possibly be lying for? So yeah, I guess their word is good enough for supporters, sympathizers and propagandists......but not for the rest of us.

Tinker Grey said:
Apparently, "they started it" is now a moral position.

No - it is the 'it' that matters...

Bradskii · Nov 19, 2023

civilwarbuff said:
Of course they all went there and counted the bodies, right?

The details are there for you to check. It's up to you if you want to do so or not. Blanket denial is simply blanket denial.

Bradskii · Nov 19, 2023

Aussie Pete said:
It should never have come to this. However, Hamas is entirely responsible for every casualty on both sides.

That they started this horror is undeniable. How one responds is another matter. Blaming others for how you respond is an abrogation of responsibility.

Israel-Hamas Thread II

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32 babies in critical condition are among the 291 patients left at Gaza’s main hospital, U.N. team says