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Israel and Prophecy

T

TransmitterTech

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In recent years I have come to question modern day eschatology (end times teaching). I was always taught that in the end days Israel would be attacked from all sides but God Himself would step in and save her. I have since come to believe that Israel broke their covenant with God when they rejected Jesus as Messiah and therefore He will not defend them. (Think about WWII and the Nazi slaughter of Jews).

We could be looking at fulfillment of prophecy right now as radicals in the Middle East are gearing up to destroy Israel. (This due to President Obama's lack of a foreign policy). In a way it's exciting to realize that we may finally see whether or not God will defend Israel but also very sad if that theology is wrong and Israel is wiped off the map. I love our friends in Israel but in the same way I might love an unbeliever in my own life. I pray for their spiritual salvation and must now stand back and see what happens.

How do you all feel about this?
 

Purge187

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Ezekiel 38 and 39 make it perfectly clear that God will indeed intervene on behalf of Israel.

It can't be said enough: God will never completely right off Israel. He may have to discipline them along the way, but He won't abandon them.
 
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1watchman

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Yes, the Israelites are clearly under discipline ever since the dispersion in the OT. They as a people will continue to suffer such until they bow to God and accept their Messiah --Jesus, the Christ of God. Those today who refuse Jesus, the Christ, as shown in the Bible, will perish in death. All mankind in this age (the dispensation of grace --Eph. 3) must receive the Lord Jesus for salvation and eternal blessings.

Israel lost their religion and sacrifices at the Cross of Christ, and now have no sacrifice, for they will not have Jesus --who is the fulfillment of all the OT sacrifices. As a nation they will repent at the end of the Tribulation time as told (note Zech. 13:6). We need to defend the people today as a nation, and pray for them; and make the true Gospel very clear to them.
 
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JM

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JM....not sure I understood what you were saying about idolatry.

The old covenant, at the time Hebrews was written, "decayeth and waxeth old is ready to vanish away" and it did with the destruction of the Temple. The Jews reject Christ and hold on to the types and shadows that pointed to Christ. That is idolatry.

Yours in the Lord,

jm
 
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JM

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BTW JM.....do you vote conservative? Can you tell me why African Americans who call themselves Christians ignore the fact that liberals support abortion, same sex marriage, and atheistic agendas? It really bothers me.

I have voted conservative in the past but find myself more of a paleocon or even small ‘L’ libertarian. My wife is black and she votes conservative, she’s more conservative than I am and gets upset when people assume all black folks should just love Obama. (keep in mind we are Canada, Obama love is worldwide) In my experience black Christianity is experiential rather than doctrinal. The emphasis in black churches is not doctrine but on experiencing Christ. This emphasis creates believers who do not think biblically, their worldview remains somewhat unchanged, the importance in experiential preaching tends to be placed on personal piety rather than a systematic understanding of the Bible and how it all relates. This piety can boarder on legalism.

I also believe we tend to boil Christianity down to a set of common denominators all Christians agree upon for political reasons which erases doctrinal distinctives and this creates a boatload of other problems but I digress.

That’s my two cents.

j
 
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LivingWordUnity

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Scripture (Deuteronomy 7-9) makes it clear that the Jews were given that land in the first place not because of their righteousness but despite all the wicked things the early Israelites had done to offend the Lord.
 
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Simon_Templar

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So, in eschatological circles there are a couple of major 'camps' if you will. Main line traditional denominations tend to be a-millenial, while non-denominational, pentecostal, charismatic types are almost all pre-millenial.

There is, of course, a lot of variety in both camps.

I used to be pre-millenial but have, in the last few years, become a-millenial in my views.

In my opinion, most of the pre-mill views go wrong because they are largely based off of dispensationalism, even if they themselves are not technically dispensational in theology.

The primary issue is the view of Israel and the Church. Dispensationalism is a reactionary view against replacement theology. In replacement theology it is believed that the Church has completely replaced Israel, and natural or genetic Israel is no longer of any theological or eschatological importance. Dispensationalism reacts against this by creating a sharp distinction between the Church and Israel, viewing the Church as a primarily gentile institution that was kind of a patch up job after Israel rejected Jesus at his first coming.

This affects eschatology because in the dispensational view (and virtually all pre-millenial views) most old testament prophecies concerning "Israel" are held to be unfulfilled and must yet come to pass. They must be taken mostly literally, and they must deal with natural/genetic Israel. In the replacement view most of the old testament prophecies concerning Israel are believed to have been fulfilled by Jesus at his first coming. In this view the prophecies are symbolic and spiritual and deal with the institution of the Church as the congregation of God.

I don't fully believe replacement theology, but I also believe that the dispensational reaction is incorrect as well.

I think the correct biblical view is that the Church is a continuation of Israel. It is neither a replacement, nor a stop gap temporary measure. The Church is Israel, but this also doesn't mean that God will not honor his promises to natural Israel as well.

Paul makes it abundantly clear in the New Testament that the Church is Israel. He flat out says it explicitly.
However, Paul also says pretty clearly that the Jews will be brought back and the whole nation (at least those that remain after the final persecution) will be saved.

However, in eschatological terms, I think the pre-mill is wrong largely because it takes old testament prophecies that were really meant to foretell the coming of Jesus Christ the first time and the establishment of the Church, and insists that they are actually prophecies of the second coming.

This misunderstanding stems from a misunderstanding of what the Church is. Ironically the pre-mill makes the same mistakes that many Jews made with these same prophecies that caused them to not recognize Jesus when he came. They were looking for a more literal fulfillment, a different kind of Kingdom. They didn't realize that the Kingdom of Heaven doesn't look like what people expect it to look like. People are still making that mistake.

So, I believe God will save Israel, but this will not happen primarily as a physical, military deliverance. It will be a spiritual deliverance, leading them to salvation in Christ. It will also come after much suffering.

Of course God will save us all in the end by destroying the antichrist and his forces when Jesus returns.
 
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Job8

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I have since come to believe that Israel broke their covenant with God when they rejected Jesus as Messiah and therefore He will not defend them.
God's covenant with Abraham was purely because of His grace. That covenant will be fulfilled for Israel as a redeemed and restored nation on earth. Study the Abrahamic Covenant.

But they will be subject to severe tribulation before Christ redeems them ("the time of Jacob's trouble"). So the Lord Jesus Christ will indeed deliver Israel at Armageddon, as well as at the battle of Gog and Magog. The very fact that Israel exists as a modern nation and prospers is because of God's grace.

You seem to be forgetting that no sinners DESERVE the grace of God. God knew that the majority of Jews would reject their Messiah even before He was born, yet He would always have a remnant according to "the election of grace". Study Romans 9-11, and lean not on your own understanding.
 
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Job8

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OK, I understand. If you listen to Hank Hanneggraf he agrees that The Lord no longer has a covenant with Israel because of their rejection of the Messiah. I just want to be careful not to write them off as God may still have plans for them.
Hank Hannegraaf is a most unreliable teacher with some very weird doctrines. To claim that God has no convenant with Israel because of their unbelief is in itself unbelief. God's covenant with Abraham was unconditional, and there will come a day when all Israel will believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and be saved (Rom 11:26). They will mourn, they will repent, and they will be saved by God's grace (Zech 12:10).
 
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