Isn't it ironic

[jamantc]

I find it fascinating that until the church spread west, it was married to poverty and persecution while it is now married to prosperity and numbers

 

[SeventhValley]

Culture happens which is why we need to bounce everything off the scriptures and not rely on teachers but ourselves and the Bible.

 

[miamited]

Hi jamantc,

While I do agree that the western world does seem to be more accepting that prosperity and numbers are a part of those who have been born again. I'm not sure that all started in the west. I see through the lens of history that this understanding began with the Romans trying to find a way to adopt the pagan religions of Rome into some tenuous framework of Christianity. However, from where you and I stand today, yes, it does look like a fairly western idea.

God bless you.
In Christ, Ted

 

[jamantc]

I do agree, Miamited, on the pagan religions being incorporated into the realm of Christianity (that continues to this day with the Easter Bunny and Santa and other areas). I'm talking about the way the early church was married to poverty and persecution. Almost all the early Christians were willing to die for the cause of the gospel spread. Today, 400 preachers of all sorts leave the ministry weekly for various reasons: 1. It doesn't pay enough. 2. It's too demanding. 3. It's too stressful on my family 4. It demands too much of me. Etc., etc., etc.. Many churches are more worried about the numbers and church growth than about loving and discipleship of the new believer that they get left alone to grow on their own and to resist temptation on their own. When the church is more worried about the quantity of numbers over the quality of believers, that seems to be contradictory to much of the gospel call

 

[miamited]

Hi jamantc,

Yes, yes. All in agreement with those points. Being a preacher today, for many, is a job. You grow up from high school and look for a career path to follow and choose to take a lot of theological studies in some place of 'higher learning' and voila you are a preacher and that's your job. However, let me be quick to point out that I am not painting with a brush so broad as to cover all of those who stand before a group of people to teach the truth of God.

It is those of the first group, however, who dirty and desecrate the work of the second. Because we have great freedoms here in the U.S. and because we surely have the largest count of those who call themselves 'christians' among the nations of the world, it would surely be expected that we would also have the greatest number of charlatans and pretenders among those ranks. However, there are many, many richly adorned temples all over the world that have been built for the gathering of those who think of themselves as God's children. There is really no more wealthy group of followers, although they try to wash their hands of actually 'owning' the filthy lucre, than those who sit in judgment and government of the Roman organization that believes itself to be the 'one true church'.

From that example of lust and desecration, I believe many come to think of heading a fellowship as a way to earthly riches.

God bless you.
In Christ, Ted

 

[jamantc]

Amen, brother!!! I agree whole heartedly with the Roman Catholic Church statement!!! And the rest

 

[SeventhValley]

(title of thread)...don't ya think? It's like rain on your wedding day.It's a free ride when your already late lol

 

[SeventhValley]

Hi jamantc,

Yes, yes. All in agreement with those points. Being a preacher today, for many, is a job. You grow up from high school and look for a career path to follow and choose to take a lot of theological studies in some place of 'higher learning' and voila you are a preacher and that's your job. However, let me be quick to point out that I am not painting with a brush so broad as to cover all of those who stand before a group of people to teach the truth of God.

It is those of the first group, however, who dirty and desecrate the work of the second. Because we have great freedoms here in the U.S. and because we surely have the largest count of those who call themselves 'christians' among the nations of the world, it would surely be expected that we would also have the greatest number of charlatans and pretenders among those ranks. However, there are many, many richly adorned temples all over the world that have been built for the gathering of those who think of themselves as God's children. There is really no more wealthy group of followers, although they try to wash their hands of actually 'owning' the filthy lucre, than those who sit in judgment and government of the Roman organization that believes itself to be the 'one true church'.

From that example of lust and desecration, I believe many come to think of heading a fellowship as a way to earthly riches.

God bless you.
In Christ, Ted

We have a lot of small churches in my area struggling. Pastors who spent a ton of money to become a preacher and now try to support themselves and a church building without any other job or skills. It is sad

 

[jamantc]

Indeed brother it is

 

[SeventhValley]

On the up side. A local pastor who is a jack of all trades set up training and job hunting seminars for the church planters in the area.

So at least some people are working the issue. It dose not help that we have a SBC megachurch in town also.

 

[SeventhValley]

I see a big need for evangelists which I feel called to do but I am trying to get my own house in order first.

 

[jamantc]

All that is understood for sure. Praying for your area my friend

 

[OzSpen]

I find it fascinating that until the church spread west, it was married to poverty and persecution while it is now married to prosperity and numbers

That's a very limited view of what's happening to the churches in our world. Have you visited or communicated with a church in the Sudan, Iran, Syria, Russia, Central African Republic, Mozambique, Nigeria, Thailand, China or Peru lately?

You'd get a very different perspective.

I urge you to read the Barnabas Fund’s appeal: ‘Help make plight of Syria’s Christians known to political leaders’.

Oz

 

[OzSpen]

< Staff Edit >

The church in the West has a very limited perspective when compared with what is happening in many countries of the world such as the Sudan, Iran, Syria, Russia, Central African Republic, Mozambique, Nigeria, Thailand, China or Peru.

I suggest that you broaden your perspective: 'For God so loved the world... Go, therefore, and make disciples of all nations'. Jesus didn't say, 'God so loved the West ... God and makes disciples among the rich and wealthy Western nations'.

I urge you to read the Barnabas Fund&#8217;s appeal: &#8216;Help make plight of Syria&#8217;s Christians known to political leaders&#8217;. This broadened my perspective on what my brothers and sisters in Christ are experiencing in areas of horrific persecution.

Oz

 

[SoulBap6]

It seems people who call themselves Christians just have to judge. I had a story related to me by a brother in Christ and a fellow preacher. Telling of how people that do not get entertained at Church find that people do not want to attend, or there is no Coffee shop in the church so people can have a better experience in Church. If you are not a prosperity preacher or a name it and claim it, then you wind up in a struggling Church.

If the gospel is truly preach and it talks about trial, Troubles and selfless sacrifice not many people don't want to hear, in fact it is not popular, yet we have these same Christians criticizing the Church or Churches. Make no mistake outside the United States and in many Countries people are being kill and tortured for the Cause of Christ.

These Christians our not to concerned whether they have a Large building to worship or Soft Chairs and a Coffee Shop. They our putting their lives on the line to bring Jesus Christ and His Gospel to them that need it even if it means their lives. So when I hear people talk about Churches and preachers especially people calling themselves Christians, I would ask what would Jesus Christ tell you, and what does he tell you in his word the Bible.

Jesus is the Judge how will he who is Judging answer to the real Judge and what would you say to him?

 

[SeventhValley]

It seems people who call themselves Christians just have to judge. I had a story related to me by a brother in Christ and a fellow preacher. Telling of how people that do not get entertained at Church find that people do not want to attend, or there is no Coffee shop in the church so people can have a better experience in Church. If you are not a prosperity preacher or a name it and claim it, then you wind up in a struggling Church.

If the gospel is truly preach and it talks about trial, Troubles and selfless sacrifice not many people don't want to hear, in fact it is not popular, yet we have these same Christians criticizing the Church or Churches. Make no mistake outside the United States and in many Countries people are being kill and tortured for the Cause of Christ.

These Christians our not to concerned whether they have a Large building to worship or Soft Chairs and a Coffee Shop. They our putting their lives on the line to bring Jesus Christ and His Gospel to them that need it even if it means their lives. So when I hear people talk about Churches and preachers especially people calling themselves Christians, I would ask what would Jesus Christ tell you, and what does he tell you in his word the Bible.

Jesus is the Judge how will he who is Judging answer to the real Judge and what would you say to him?

True. If they are prepared for that type of life ,struggling for the cause of Christ then I applaud them.

 

[Bluelion]

I think everyone needs to calm down. What did Jesus say unless you humble your self as one of these children. Lets all step away from the egos, lay down are pride pick up a big handful of Love.

The OP is right churches in America have been blessed beyond. This came about for the reason people came to America seeking the freedom of religion. They were trying to escape the church of England which would not even let them own a copy of a Bible so they could study for themselves as a result the first book congress printed was you guesses it The Holy Bible so everyone could have the very own and study.

Some one said in another post the wish religion was not free in America, but it must be free, because you can not force anyone to God. Jesus takes care of the church.

America had many blessing because it included God in everything but as Israel got Spoiled so has America. Fact is in every other part of the world people die for there faith and that is coming to America so hold on.

Did God say bless only America no of course not, point taken Oz, but we have had it easy in America and those days are coming to an end. What will be the next fruitful ground for the church? Maybe it is Russia with banning gay marriages, but I don't think so because i saw So called Christians beating gays. Now that is Just not Christian at all.

I believe the end is coming, that it will get worse every where, but i do pray God gathers us all together in his arms and gives us refuge. As it is written God is my strength my refuge. So i know he will. Where will it be i do not Know.

So relax everyone is right and your all wrong to and so am I. Lets start agreeing and act like brother and sisters, come on people I really need my Christian family to be a family. Do it for Jesus because he did it for us.

Peace and Love
blu

P.S.
Merry Christmas less we forget?

 

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[saintboniface]

However, there are many, many richly adorned temples all over the world that have been built for the gathering of those who think of themselves as God's children. There is really no more wealthy group of followers, although they try to wash their hands of actually 'owning' the filthy lucre, than those who sit in judgment and government of the Roman organization that believes itself to be the 'one true church'.
From that example of lust and desecration, I believe many come to think of heading a fellowship as a way to earthly riches.

And do tell us all about the day you gave up all of your possessions to follow the Lord!!

 

[98cwitr]

Didn't know sin was geographical