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swanlake said:If what the unislamic sites wrote about Islam were true, there wouldnt have been billion muslims. It just doesnt make sense.
Theoretically, you're right. Practically however, some women are pressurized into wearing it from community and parents. I know a few young women who have migrated here from countries such as Saudi Arabia and Pakistan and no longer wear the Hijab, since they don't have the pressure any more. Some of them leave home with the hijab on and take it off later. Still others keep the hijab on, but lead a contradictory lifestyle. Such as drinking, smoking or dancing in nightclubs. There is a certain extent of pressure for some.
humblemuslim said:Please Exhibit your vase knowledge of Islam Oh wise one using the Qur'an to back you currently baseless claims!
I'm awaiting a unique response, not one that was copy/pasted off some website. If your knowledge is so extensive you should have no problem sharing a few points in support of your view. And please don't be shy with your use of the Qur'an, quote the verses which you feel best support your claims.
peace!
humblemuslim said:Please Exhibit your vase knowledge of Islam Oh wise one using the Qur'an to back you currently baseless claims!
I'm awaiting a unique response, not one that was copy/pasted off some website. If your knowledge is so extensive you should have no problem sharing a few points in support of your view. And please don't be shy with your use of the Qur'an, quote the verses which you feel best support your claims.
peace!
The whole idea is Islam dosen't make sense. What claims you want ?? Treatment of Non-Musilms ? I use my God-Given brain to think wisely and read the quran with understanding, in the end the whole concept dosen't make sense. Musilms live a life in a climate of fear. They don't fear or love God, they fear Hell. They fear that God might throw them to Hell-Fire. They don't even dare to question the quran cos of fear. FEAR FOR HELL-FIRE often blinds the Intelligence.
Another factor is Society. When a muslim questions the quran, he is labeled as a kafir or infidel on the spot. In this way many Muslims i repeat many muslims who knew that the whole concept dosen't make sense at all but yet still follow some regulated principles due to their fear of a society backlash.
Could you please show me an example where Muslims face hostility, yet are called hostile, or are terrorised, yet are called terrorists...Ahmed Waheed said:Muslims face hostility; left right and center. yet they are called hostile. Muslims are butchered; yet are are called the butchers. Muslims are terrorised; yet they are called terrorists.
Koran 9:3-5
And an announcement from Allah and His Messenger, to the people (assembled) on the day of the Great Pilgrimage,- that Allah and His Messenger dissolve (treaty) obligations with the Pagans. If then, ye repent, it were best for you; but if ye turn away, know ye that ye cannot frustrate Allah. And proclaim a grievous penalty to those who reject Faith.
But the treaties are not dissolved with those Pagans with whom ye have entered into alliance and who have not subsequently failed you in aught, nor aided any one against you. So fulfil your engagements with them to the end of their term: for Allah loveth the righteous.
But when the forbidden months are past, then fight and slay the Pagans wherever ye find them, an seize them, beleaguer them, and lie in wait for them in every stratagem (of war); but if they repent, and establish regular prayers and practise regular charity, then open the way for them: for Allah is Oft-forgiving, Most Merciful.
Koran 9:29
Fight those who believe not in Allah nor the Last Day, nor hold that forbidden which hath been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger, nor acknowledge the religion of Truth, (even if they are) of the People of the Book, until they pay the Jizya with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued.
Koran 9:41
Go ye forth, (whether equipped) lightly or heavily, and strive and struggle, with your goods and your persons, in the cause of Allah. That is best for you, if ye (but) knew.
Koran 4:74
Let those fight in the cause of Allah Who sell the life of this world for the hereafter. To him who fighteth in the cause of Allah,- whether he is slain or gets victory - Soon shall We give him a reward of great (value).
The whole idea is Islam dosen't make sense. What claims you want ?? Treatment of Non-Musilms ? I use my God-Given brain to think wisely and read the quran with understanding, in the end the whole concept dosen't make sense. Musilms live a life in a climate of fear. They don't fear or love God, they fear Hell. They fear that God might throw them to Hell-Fire. They don't even dare to question the quran cos of fear. FEAR FOR HELL-FIRE often blinds the Intelligence.
Another factor is Society. When a muslim questions the quran, he is labeled as a kafir or infidel on the spot. In this way many Muslims i repeat many muslims who knew that the whole concept dosen't make sense at all but yet still follow some regulated principles due to their fear of a society backlash.
humblemuslim said:I notice a weakness in your position: You didn't quote any Qur'an to support your claims. Plus much of what you said has nothing to do with your original comment that I challenged.
If you have worthwhile and honest claims to make, please be my guest. But if all you have is raging passion against Islam and opinions then I suggest you stop lying
If however you do have support from the Qur'an to your claims, present and support yourself properly.
peace!
Arthra said:Maccoy,
In my Faith we regard all the major religions as being divine in origin.
So I don't think you can so easily dismiss Islam as man-made.
maccoy77 said:Muslim belief that there was a war(not too sure about this) and the original copies of the quran was lost, than those mullahs who remembered wrote it down again. It could be while writing down, hugly corrupted verses and man-made ideolgies came up during this time.
The Prophet Muhammad had a adopted son known as Zaid. Muhammad had a crush on his adopted son's beautiful wife Zainab.
He already had four wives and making Zainab will make her the fifth wife, it will go against a Quranic teaching that permits a Muslim to own only four wives.
rahma said:Ah no, we don't believe that. The Qur'an was memorized by the sahabi (companions of the prophet), and as muslims began to disperse and leave arabia, the caliph Umar (ra) ordered that the Qur'an be written down so that it did not get corrupted as Muslims spread out.
Also, no mullahs among the sahabi.
Ah no. This situation was set up by Allah (swt) to show one very crucial thing - that an adopted son is the son of his father, not of his adopted father. An adopted child should know his heratige, and be proud of it.
I also look at this in the modern context, when we have so many genetic diseases to worry about. If a child doesn't know his birth parents, he won't know what genetic and family diseases he will have to worry about.
The Qur'anic verse limiting men to 4 wives came after the Prophet (saws) had married all of his wives.
maccoy77 said:Ok if The Qur'an was memorized by the sahabi (companions of the prophet), than where was the Original Quran, where was the original verses recieved by the prophet ??
So you say this situation was set up by Allah, how would you know that ??
whats wrong in adopting a child who lost his parents ??
You said:
""If a child doesn't know his birth parents, he won't know what genetic and family diseases he will have to worry about""
What are you saying ??? what disease to worry ???
Anyway The reality is Muhammad was interested in his own's adopted son's wife and he came up with such verses so that he can marry her. ITS VERY CLEAR. Muhammad claim it is Allah's will, and now you reply this ""This situation was set up by Allah (swt)""
So Prophet can marry more than 4 wives but his followers can't . A very good leader indeed. He sets a good example.
Anyway how did you know the quranic verse limiting 4 wives came after Prophet had married all his wives ? Show proof, Show quotation that the verse actually came after.
rahma said:The Qur'an was revealed orally. It wasn't a book thrown down by Allah (swt). The original Qur'an was in the minds and hearts of the Prophet and his companions. After the Prophet died, and some companions began to die off, the caliph Umar (ra) sought to preserve the Qur'an in written form.
Because God sets up all situations.
Nothing is wrong with taking in the orphans and being guardians to them.
The Prophet (saws) is reported to have said " 'I and the person who looks after an orphan and provides for him, will be in Paradise like this,' putting his index and middle fingers together." Sahih Al-Bukhari 8, 34
We just do not agree with a child being taken in and the parents making him their child. A child is always the child of his birth parents.
You've never been asked your family medical history when you go to the drs? For example, my mother and my grandmother, and my aunt, have all had a very rare disease that affects their reproductive organs. Because I know who my parents are, the drs know to look for this, and have been looking for it since I was 16. If I ever were to get this disease, they'll catch it early, and hopefully I won't have to have my uterous removed.
If I was adopted and didn't know my parents, the drs wouldn't know to look for that.
Everything in life is set up by Allah (swt).
The Prophet was a rasul and a nabi. His followers aren't rasul and nabis. However, each of the Prophet's marriages set an example for believers to follow. Each was important for how we as muslims today strive to have our marriages.
Scholars know when every verse of the Qur'an was revealed. We know that at the time this ayah was revealed
{If ye fear that ye shall not be able to deal justly with the orphans, Marry women of your choice, Two or three or four; (Al-An`am 6: 3)
that this ayah was also revealed:
{O Prophet! We have made lawful to thee thy wives to whom thou hast paid their dowers; ...}* (Al-Ahzab 33: 50)
So at the same time the verse limiting the number of wives to 4 was revealed, the verse allowing the Prophet (saws) to keep his wives was revealed.
maccoy77 said:
Yeah after the Prophet died some companions begun to distort it. Anyway How did you know that the quran was revealed by Allah ?? Any Proof ?? One day a man will come out from a cave and say i have revealed messages from Allah. Will you belief him ??
Anyway was Prophet Muhammad a Wise man ?? Please quote some verses to show Muhammad was wise and humble man, i would love to see it
There you go again, Can't answer my question than simply say Its God's set up.
I can also say, by God's will The Jews defeated the Musilms during the 6day War. By God's will Israel is unshaken eventhru its surrounded by islamic nations
.
Isn't it making him your child better than thinking that child as just a mere Guardian ?? what are you talking man ? This "making it as your Child 'is just a mindset change thats all, it dosen't make the child your real father. Its Common-sense, Everyone knows this. I can't belief that You need a Prophet to tell You ??
How many Adopted Children have Rare Disease ??? Or Infact how many Childrean among the billions today have Rare diease ??
Your Answer is totaly Baseless.
When Muslims can't answer they simply push it to Allah. "Oh its all Allah's will"
Yeah he married a 6 Year old BabyGirl by the name of Aisha. So everyone should follow his example and marry Children.
I don't Understand you, First you say the Limiting of 4 wife verse came after the Prophet have married his 5th Wife. Now you are saying Both arrived at the same time.
Anyway as i told you in my earlier post. The Prophet was interested in his adopted son's wife, inorder to marry her, he made up such verses to allow him to marry his adopted son's wife which was consider inmoral.
So now you can adopt a son, when that son gets married and have a beautiful wife, you can still marry your adopted son's wife. This Immoral idelogy is not done by any tom,dick or harry its done by the Prophet of Islam himself.
In total how many wives he had ???
rahma said:There were several thousands of companions who had memorized the entire Qur'an. When Umar (ra) saw that as people moved on, it might be distored, he had everything written down and preserved as it had been revealed.
And, what proof do I need that it comes from Allah (swt)? It's faith, just as you have faith that any of your sacred texts came from whatever diety you profess allegance to..
Why do you need a verse for that? We know that from his earlies biographers. Sometimes I think I know the Prophet better than I know myself.
What was your question? You were ranting and raving, and had no question.
Nothing happens without God's will.
No, it is not better to make a child who is not yours your child. A child is a child only of his parents, and no one else.
Everyone has a family medical history. Everyone has a history of cancer to be aware of, of high blood pressure, of heart attacks, of numerous diseases
I gave you my own personal experience and you tell me that is baseless? Riiight
What was your question again? You had no question. I am simply stating my paradigm, my world view. Nothing happens in this world without God willing it to be so, and everything happens for a reason.
Aisha (ra) was not a baby. She was a young woman when the marriage was consumated. And, she is one of the best examples we have of female leadership within the muslim community. I love her example, and strive to follow it in my own marriage and in my own life.
One came after another. He cannot reveal two verses at the exact same time. The one limiting came and then the one pertaining to the Prophet (saws).
See, no muslim will ever believe that the Prophet (saws) made up verses. We know our prophet and we know that is not in his character.
No, we know that we are not to adopt children, and that any children we care for are not like our own children.
[/QUOTE]The fact that hte Prophet (saws) had multiple wives doesn't bother me as a muslim. If it bothers you, then tough cookies for you.
swanlake said:Hello All
Lets be considerate of each other's faiths - This goes out to all people of faiths including muslims. If someone disrespects your faith, leave him be, because it says more about the person (and his conviction of his faith) rather than your faith.
LaSalle said:Yes, I think for the most part Islam is misunderstood. However, I am curious about the line you wrote above.
Instead of leaving him be, as suggested by you, how come I see people like Rushdie getting fatwas?i.e are not muslims compelled to kill him?
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