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The changing in verses from the hard to soft kinda reminds me of how some Muslims seem to act. For instance, they will take you in under their honor and roof, and drink tea and laugh with you, and the next day that same person who drank tea with you and laughed with you accuses you of being a spy and is sawing your head off with a blunt small knife all of a sudden.
It seems to be a very changeable religion. I remember one guy who served in Afghanistan once said the tribal Muslims are extremely nice to you and are some of the most cordial warmest people you can meet, but then a few seconds later they could all of a sudden have a AK pointed towards your head.
Well it's true that not everyone knows all about their own faith. When I was a Catholic I believed (wrongly) that the Immaculate Conception was about Jesus' conception.So they all agree? When I was a Muslim I never considered the "peaceful verses" abrogated.
Well Moslem, by the very fact we're using a collective noun stands for something. I agree that there's some variation within that. There is however some commonality, else the term would be meaningless.Who are "they"? You act as if Muslims are some monolithic block that agree 100% on the intricacies of abrogation and what has been abrogated.
Show me Islamic exegesis that there's been no abrogation.There is just as much diversity of opinion on issues of Quranic exegesis among Muslims as there is divergence of opinion on Biblical exegesis among Christians. Some Muslims are Quran only and reject the hadith, some Muslims tend to use a more allegorical manner of interpretation, some Muslims are fundamentalist extremists, some Muslims are liberals, some Muslims are conservatives, etc.
So calling for someone's death unless they change faith is not a compulsion?I'm not so sure all the Muslims who support the death of apostates (and that's certainly not all Muslims) necessarily believe the verse calling for "no compulsion in religion" to have been abrogated. They just justify to themselves that killing apostates isn't actually "compulsion in religion". More tortured logic if anything.
So they all agree? When I was a Muslim I never considered the "peaceful verses" abrogated.
Christians with faith in Christ have a knowledge that surpasses a muslim's knowledge.
Now, if you think that this verse is taken out of context, let's hear from some Moslem experts
I've been reading the first few pages and find the topic tiresome. Christians with faith in Christ have a knowledge that surpasses a muslim's knowledge. Our knowledge is more costly than Gold and it's a knowledge that means the difference between life eternal thru resurrection and death.
The best way to know what a verse means is to see what Quran itself states and let it explain it's verses. The word Awliya can be translated to friend, ally, master, authority, guardian, and other words.
Else where in Quran, we read:
[SIZE=-1][Shakir 60:9] Allah only forbids you respecting those who made war upon you on account of (your) religion, and drove you forth from your homes and backed up (others) in your expulsion, that you make friends with them, and whoever makes friends with them, these are the unjust.[/SIZE]
This is clear friendship with the people whom didn't drive them out of their homes were not forbidden.
Therefore the meaning of the word awliya in the verse you quoted has to be other then friend.
I cited Islamic experts on this.
Brotherhood:
007.073
And to Samood We sent their brother Salih. He said: O my people! serve Allah, you have no god other than Him; clear proof indeed has come to you from your Lord; this is (as) Allah's she-camel for you-- a sign, therefore leave her alone to pasture on Allah's earth, and do not touch her with any harm, otherwise painful chastisement will overtake you.
Maybe you should let Quran speak for itself - instead of relying on people you think are experts.
Brother in Islam means fellow Moslem
I'm thinking "He can't be serious". What makes your opinion right over experts?
Don't care to quote for arguments sake nor discuss topics only to run in circles and never get anywhere. Its useless to reason with the unreasonable. Nor do I care to quote biblical material only to have a muslim change its intended original meaning. It's best to simply wait out for the messiah's return who will do away with wickedness.You're more than welcome to address any specific effors
I also accept that you're allowed to be nice to people you call to Islam. Is Salih a convert?Samood were not Muslims, they in fact disbelieved in the message, yet the Quran calls Salih their `brother`
What makes you think their opinion is correct when Quran says something else then what they say?
Don't care to quote for arguments sake nor discuss topics only to run in circles and never get anywhere. Its useless to reason with the unreasonable. Nor do I care to quote biblical material only to have a muslim change its intended original meaning. It's best to simply wait out for the messiah's return who will do away with wickedness.
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