Islam doesn't condone terror

FRM48 · Mar 8, 2011

SithDoughnut said:
I know. The point I'm trying to make is that it is worrying how much people want to overlook to try to keep this idea that Israel is perfect in every way, to the point where they will try to make excuses for anything wrong it might do.

I'm not saying Israel is perfect,and as for overlooking anything,maybe you should stop overlooking the history of arab hatred of the Jews.There will never be any trust because of the wars the arabs started against Israel.I don't condone bulldozing homes of Palestinians,but I also don't condone rockets raining down on Israel's citizens.What worries me is that the world has chosen to ignore the history of Arab hostility toward Israel and is pushing for a peace agreement that will leave Israel's ability to defend itself severely compromised.

Montalban · Mar 8, 2011

Robban said:
I am aware of the things what you have written here.
I have not lived my life in a closet.
I am aware there is a threat.
What in your texts are the horrors which have taken place for hundreds of years based upon? Like "Kiss the cross or kiss the sword", Though in the death camps it was "kiss the cross or kiss this gun".

I don't know what you're referring to. It looks like an attempt at tu quoque though, but I'm just guessing context

Robban said:
An elderly man once said to his grandson after the war,"It feels like there are two wolves fighting in my heart, one is bitter and aggresive, the other is more mild" the grandson asked "Which one do you think will win?" The man answered "The one I feed".
Churchill I think said "It is a mistake to underestimate the enemy".
So is it a mistake for you Christians to underestimate the rest of the world, and don,t fool yourselves, thinking you know it all because you don,t. Far from it.

Again a quote taken out of some context that I don't see is relevant

Montalban · Mar 8, 2011

FRM48 said:
I'm not saying Israel is perfect,and as for overlooking anything,maybe you should stop overlooking the history of arab hatred of the Jews.There will never be any trust because of the wars the arabs started against Israel.I don't condone bulldozing homes of Palestinians,but I also don't condone rockets raining down on Israel's citizens.What worries me is that the world has chosen to ignore the history of Arab hostility toward Israel and is pushing for a peace agreement that will leave Israel's ability to defend itself severely compromised.

Indeed. During the Cold War the US and the USSR often did the same things in order to battle each other - such as destablising another country.

However despite the same mistakes the US - what it's ideals were - was far and away better than the USSR - even if the US too made mistakes

Same with Israel which has been the oldest democracy in the Middle East

b&wpac7 · Mar 8, 2011

Montalban said:
Same with Israel which has been the oldest democracy in the Middle East

Did you know that a place like Dubai won't let you in if you has an Israel stamp on your passport?

Montalban · Mar 8, 2011

b&wpac7 said:
Did you know that a place like Dubai won't let you in if you has an Israel stamp on your passport?

That I didn't know.

I know there's a Moslem here on these threads talking about how 'collective guilt' isn't supported by international law (though I've evidenced that it is), well he should note that when Israel was created the Jewish populations of northern African and Middle Eastern countries were even more highly persecuted forcing these people out of those nations.

Israel flew planes down to Yemen to pick them all up

b&wpac7 · Mar 8, 2011

Montalban said:
That I didn't know.

Yeah, there's a morning show in DC that was giving people a discount on a trip to Dubai if they would come to the station and rip out the page with the stamp from Israel in their passport.

Israel flew planes down to Yemen to pick them all up

Israel also went through some trouble to send aid to Iran once. They could have just given up, but had to have other countries act as proxies because Iran refused the help.

Montalban · Mar 8, 2011

b&wpac7 said:
Yeah, there's a morning show in DC that was giving people a discount on a trip to Dubai if they would come to the station and rip out the page with the stamp from Israel in their passport.

I found this..."Any contact with Israel, including having an Israeli entry stamp in your passport, will preclude you from entry into the UAE."
Passport, Visa & Permits for Dubai, Departure United Arab Emirates

I was amazed when you first mentioned it. It flies in the face of International Law

b&wpac7 said:
Israel also went through some trouble to send aid to Iran once. They could have just given up, but had to have other countries act as proxies because Iran refused the help.

So much for not having 'collective guilt'

b&wpac7 · Mar 8, 2011

Montalban said:
I found this..."Any contact with Israel, including having an Israeli entry stamp in your passport, will preclude you from entry into the UAE."
Passport, Visa & Permits for Dubai, Departure United Arab Emirates

I was amazed when you first mentioned it. It flies in the face of International Law

What can you say? Israel is hated. It really annoys me when I remember where their fortune comes from.

simonpeter · Mar 8, 2011

Montalban said:
I found this..."Any contact with Israel, including having an Israeli entry stamp in your passport, will preclude you from entry into the UAE."
Passport, Visa & Permits for Dubai, Departure United Arab Emirates

I was amazed when you first mentioned it. It flies in the face of International Law

You mean like Iraq war?

FRM48 · Mar 8, 2011

simonpeter said:
You mean like Iraq war?

Ya know what,Iraq violated the Desert Storm cease fire agreement 400 times, used Sarin Gas on women and children,had torture houses all over the country,and was ruled by one of the most twisted dictators since Hitler.Saddam Hussein was playing hide and seek with the U.N. for years,and then kicked all the weapons inspectors out of the country.His country was a safe haven for terrorists like Abu Abbas and others.Also His country was still in possession of highly enriched uranium which The New York Times wrote a story about.So thats the Iraq that was in violation several U.N. resolutions, the same Iraq you seam to hold so dear to your heart.

Montalban · Mar 8, 2011

b&wpac7 said:
What can you say? Israel is hated. It really annoys me when I remember where their fortune comes from.

Absolutely. Unfortunately you will find a lot of very confused people defending this hate and calling others hateful for pointing it out.

I know one person who continually offers tu quoque comment and never ever engages in evidence presented.

I have nothing but deep sorrow for such confused people.

Servant of Jesus · Mar 9, 2011

PHenry42 said:
I find it extremely saddening, that even after the Holocaust, it only took the Jews three years to commit ethnic cleansing against another people.

Never again?

What a bunch of nonsense- Palestinians make up 20% of Israeli citizens, and they are, by and large, treated as equals by the Jewish people- they are free to worship, free to have businesses, are treated the same under Israeli law, etc. etc.

But why don't we get back on topic here- the fact that despite denial, deflection, and deafening silence, Islam and the Qur'an condone terrorism, and the premise of the OP is wrong.

Servant of Jesus · Mar 9, 2011

FRM48 said:
Ya know what,Iraq violated the Desert Storm cease fire agreement 400 times, used Sarin Gas on women and children,had torture houses all over the country,and was ruled by one of the most twisted dictators since Hitler.Saddam Hussein was playing hide and seek with the U.N. for years,and then kicked all the weapons inspectors out of the country.His country was a safe haven for terrorists like Abu Abbas and others.Also His country was still in possession of highly enriched uranium which The New York Times wrote a story about.So thats the Iraq that was in violation several U.N. resolutions, the same Iraq you seam to hold so dear to your heart.

Precisely- we seem to forget that Saddam was one sick dude who committed some of the most barbaric acts in recent memory. But let us not forget that he was an avowed Muslim- so like the Ayatollah Khomeini, the barbaric acts he committed were done so under the name of Islam.

The Iraq war was necessary for a number of reasons- not the least is the fact that Iran considered him a major threat, and would probably have accelerated their nuclear program if he was still in power. That would have inevitably led to a nuclear arms race in that region.

Montalban · Mar 9, 2011

Servant of Jesus said:
What a bunch of nonsense- Palestinians make up 20% of Israeli citizens, and they are, by and large, treated as equals by the Jewish people- they are free to worship, free to have businesses, are treated the same under Israeli law, etc. etc.

But why don't we get back on topic here- the fact that despite denial, deflection, and deafening silence, Islam and the Qur'an condone terrorism, and the premise of the OP is wrong.

The Palestinian 'Authority' began by putting restrictions of Christians worshiping.

freezerman2000 · Mar 9, 2011

There was a political cartoon in the paper today of a Jihadist holding a saber pointing west hollering "JIHAD!"...next frame , he was getting trampled by a horde of folks carrying banners that said,"HUMAN RIGHTS",FAIR ELECTIONS", and the main one was, "DEMOCRACY!"...The guy with the saber was flat on his back and looked like he was truly confused and beaten...
The will of the populations, over time will prevail...Tyranny never stands for long.

Montalban · Mar 9, 2011

freezerman2000 said:
There was a political cartoon in the paper today of a Jihadist holding a saber pointing west hollering "JIHAD!"...next frame , he was getting trampled by a horde of folks carrying banners that said,"HUMAN RIGHTS",FAIR ELECTIONS", and the main one was, "DEMOCRACY!"...The guy with the saber was flat on his back and looked like he was truly confused and beaten...
The will of the populations, over time will prevail...Tyranny never stands for long.

How long's Saudi Arabia been a democracy?

freezerman2000 · Mar 9, 2011

Robban said:
Muslim families that live in Europe for example, their children are not growing up in the middle east, they go in Europian secular schools, they live in another type of enviroment, Europian classmates, right across the road from me is a school, and when I look out and see them during their play breaks they seem to be getting along well together.
I maybe naive to you and others, but I cannot see it the way you and others see it, that they are out to take over Europe.
I have at times wondered why there are so many here in Sweden for example, I don,t know, they are here, we all have to live somewhere.
When I go out and quiet often meet children from muslim families I find they are very open and are a joy to talk to, kids are kids, I was in a shop this evening and a muslim woman was at the cashpoint, while her children were waiting for her to get done, they came over my way I smiled, they smiled and they were what they were, happy kids. What I,m trying to get at is, we cannot maybe make a difference in the middle east, but we can absolutely make a differnce where we are placed in the world.
Don,t you sing "This little light of mine.....".
Well I,ll leave all the big stuff to the big boys, I,ll do the little I can do and with Gods help it will make a difference.

Children do not stay innocent...they are taught by their elders to hate, or else they learn from the press.
War and it's politics should never be waged on the innocent.

simonpeter · Mar 9, 2011

Servant of Jesus said:
Precisely- we seem to forget that Saddam was one sick dude

The US supplied him weapons. So much for moral outrage!

Servant of Jesus · Mar 9, 2011

simonpeter said:
The US supplied him weapons. So much for moral outrage!

You can't change the past, only look at the present and the future.

plenary · Mar 9, 2011

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XUPSud3rNh4

The ones who are the real victims of this situation, first and foremost, are the Muslims themselves, who grow up hating other people... But one shouldn't wonder why non-Muslims get hated and are oppressed, harassed and murdered.

And the reason being, the twisted and corrupt doctrine of Islam, which states that Muslims should treat non-Muslims harshly.... And that non-Muslims are despicable, cannot be trusted and should be fought...

By this reason Islam is a crime against humanity... Because the real law of God states only LOVE..... As conveyed by Christ Himself.

Because if one says "I know God", but loveth not his neighbor, he is a liar.... And the doctrine of Islam, does not show love to the non-Muslim, indeed, it teaches the opposite....

The US supplied him weapons. So much for moral outrage! You can't change the past, only look at the present and the future.

It was wrong to deliver arms to Sadam, just as it is wrong to deliver arms to other tyrant regimes... (But a lot of the super-powers delivered weapons, not just the USA)
And the reason for the arms-race has already been indicated in this thread, namely Iran.... And if one doesn't deliver weapons to Iraq, one shouldn't either to Iran... And Iran shouldn't deliver to Hezbollah.

Islam doesn't condone terror

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