Islam doesn't condone terror

I'll be honest, the fact that Israel could nuke the entire middle east and some people would cheer really is quite frightening. I think for some people, Israel could literally do anything and they still wouldn't care. The idea that Israel can do no wrong is one massive delusion that must take a lot of effort to keep up. I mean, they're not even avoiding contrary evidence - they're incorporating it into their beliefs and saying that it's good.

"What? Israel is displacing and making life miserable for thousands of Palestinians? They must deserve it."

SithDoughnut said:

I'll be honest, the fact that Israel could nuke the entire middle east and some people would cheer really is quite frightening. I think for some people, Israel could literally do anything and they still wouldn't care. The idea that Israel can do no wrong is one massive delusion that must take a lot of effort to keep up. I mean, they're not even avoiding contrary evidence - they're incorporating it into their beliefs and saying that it's good.

"What? Israel is displacing and making life miserable for thousands of Palestinians? They must deserve it."

Click to expand...

I support Israel but am critical of policies I find to be bad.

I don't like your last quote though. I don't believe you hold the view, but it has become somewhat popular to suggest that the Palestinians can do no wrong which is simply the opposite of the idea you and I dislike about those who are fanatic about Israel.

b&wpac7 said:

I don't like your last quote though. I don't believe you hold the view, but it has become somewhat popular to suggest that the Palestinians can do no wrong which is simply the opposite of the idea you and I dislike about those who are fanatic about Israel.

Click to expand...

I know. The point I'm trying to make is that it is worrying how much people want to overlook to try to keep this idea that Israel is perfect in every way, to the point where they will try to make excuses for anything wrong it might do.

I support Israel but am critical of policies I find to be bad.

I don't like your last quote though. I don't believe you hold the view, but it has become somewhat popular to suggest that the Palestinians can do no wrong which is simply the opposite of the idea you and I dislike about those who are fanatic about Israel.

Click to expand...

It's quite simple... Israel has a right to exist.... Palestinians don't want to live together with the Jews, because the grand example of the arabs, Muhammad, was an anti-Semite himself...

Islam is a human tragedy and a crime against humanity....

No-one claims the jews to be faultless... But the actions and words of the arabs, concerning the Jews, is utterly despicable...

plenary said:

It's quite simple... Israel has a right to exist.... Palestinians don't want to live together with the Jews, because the grand example of the arabs, Muhammad, was an anti-Semite himself...

Islam is a human tragedy and a crime against humanity....

Click to expand...

This is the kind of thing I'm talking about.

Qur'an 2:64 "But you [Jews] went back on your word and were lost losers. So become apes, despised and hated. We made an example out of you."

Qur'an 4:55 "Sufficient for the Jew is the Flaming Fire!"

Qur'an 59:14 "They [Jews] will not fight against you save in fortified townships. Their hostility and hatred amongst themselves is strong: you would think they were united, but their hearts they are divided. That is because these [Jews] are a people devoid of sense."

plenary said:

It's quite simple... Israel has a right to exist.... Palestinians don't want to live together with the Jews, because the grand example of the arabs, Muhammad, was an anti-Semite himself...

Islam is a human tragedy and a crime against humanity....

No-one claims the jews to be faultless... But the actions and words of the arabs, concerning the Jews, is utterly despicable...

Click to expand...

That is one of the most hateful things I have read on this forum ever.

This is beyond attacking Islam, this is attacking all Arabs. That is a terribly racist point of view.

SithDoughnut said:

I know. The point I'm trying to make is that it is worrying how much people want to overlook to try to keep this idea that Israel is perfect in every way, to the point where they will try to make excuses for anything wrong it might do.

Click to expand...

Israel is far from perfect, just like the US is far from perfect and such. They make good decisions, they make bad decisions.

I'm sorry you feel that way, but I find anti-semitism extremely despicable...

I would never encourage murder or genocide and i find the call to murder and genocide despicable... If you call that hate, fine...

I find it extremely saddening, that even after the holocaust, there are people who want to murder the jews...

plenary said:

I'm sorry you feel that way, but I find anti-semitism extremely despicable...

Click to expand...

As do I, but I find racism against all Arabs just as despicable.

You do realize that there are Christian Arabs, right?

You do realize that there are Christian Arabs, right?

Click to expand...

Yes, and according to the testimonies of Brigitte Gabriel, even the Christian Arabs of Lebanon, were/are taught to hate the Jews... What kind of sick indoctrination is that?

And I do not differentiate.. all anti-semitism is despicable... Just as all other forms of hatred...

For me, there is no difference between human beings.. Al life is precious.. I don't hate the Arabs, but I loath anti-semitism.... (As indeed all other forms of human hatred.)


A tree can be judged by its fruits... But don't worry, this will become all to clear in the next decades. Political correctness is no match for fanaticism... As some of the police forces of European countries are already experiencing.

plenary said:

Yes, and according to the testimonies of Brigitte Gabriel, even the Christian Arabs of Lebanon, were/are taught to hate the Jews... What kind of sick indoctrination is that?

Click to expand...

The exact same kind that swept through Europe for centuries which lead to pogroms, ghettos, being thrown out of countries, having the Blood Liable lobbied, and such things as bringing a Jew into a church during Easter to slap them in the face for killing Jesus. No Arabs involved in that.

What happened in Europe? Reason prevailed. I will hold out hope the same happens in the Middle East. I still strive for tikkun olam, repairing the world. Much of that comes in the form of the relationship people have with each other.

The exact same kind that swept through Europe for centuries which lead to pogroms, ghettos, being thrown out of countries, having the Blood Liable lobbied, and such things as bringing a Jew into a church during Easter to slap them in the face for killing Jesus. No Arabs involved in that.

Click to expand...

No, but the arabs fought side by side with the Nazi's..

What happened in Europe? Reason prevailed. I will hold out hope the same happens in the Middle East. I still strive for tikkun olam, repairing the world. Much of that comes in the form of the relationship people have with each other.

Click to expand...

Christians are, by Christian law, not even allowed to heighten themselves towards the Jews... Because the Jews are the natural branches....
What do you think what will happen, when hatred is taught in a religion???

I have nothing personally against arabs, nothing at all... I hope all the best for them... But the best isn't Islam... Quite the contrary...
And again, the people who suffer the most from Islam, are the Muslims themselves... And the more they hate the Kufar (unbelievers) the more destruction, death and mutilation they will suffer themselves...
God does not want harshness towards unbelievers, but want compassion, meekness and love... Things which are alien to Islam....

And Islam is far more dangerous than national-socialism... Because national-socialism is nothing more than a political para-dime, whilst islam is a deep rooted religion, in which apostates are to be murdered... And heaven is promised to those, who follow Muhammad to the letter... And that, is the reason that Islam is a human catastrophe.
A tree is judged by it fruit, and the fruits of islam are death, oppression and destruction....
Again, I hope the best for Muslims and that is not Islam.... And what I think will happen, when the Muslims will become the majority in Europe, which is not completely unthinkable in the next century, than freedom as we now know will stop and there will be a great darkness over Europe, just as there is a great darkness over the middle east....

One could say, the reverse of the enlightenment...

The only way, this could not happen, is when Muslims absorb the western ways, but the majority will (or at least this seems to currently be the case) stick to Islam and sharia, which means total oppression of minorities....
Because democracy and Islam are not compatible, because the Quran is the word of God, which includes law....

plenary said:

I'm sorry you feel that way, but I find anti-semitism extremely despicable...

I would never encourage murder or genocide and i find the call to murder and genocide despicable... If you call that hate, fine...

I find it extremely saddening, that even after the holocaust, there are people who want to murder the jews...

Click to expand...

Dislike of Israel does not equate to anti semitism.

It's true that most anti semites are vehemently against Israel, and that some even disguise their hatred of Jews through attacking Israel.

But the majority of people who criticize Israel simply don't care what race/religion most Israelis are- only the actions of Israel.

plenary said:

No, but the arabs fought side by side with the Nazi's..

Click to expand...

and the Germans were mostly white Christians. Your point?

Christians are, by Christian law, not even allowed to heighten themselves towards the Jews... Because the Jews are the natural branches....
What do you think what will happen, when hatred is taught in a religion???

Click to expand...

But it happened for centuries. These weren't a few isolated incidents but a pattern of behavior that was not stopped. If I were alive back then, I would have to be worried that at any moment some angry Christians could come into my village and start beating people or throwing us out or worse. It isn't that much different to be honest.

I dont' care what your law says if you don't live by it. This call to kindness toward the Jews is a recent event brought out of a desire to gain converts to Christianity. The old plan of forced conversion didn't work. Not everybody believed in those acts, but enough did that you can compile a long, long list of oppression.

I have nothing personally against arabs, nothing at all

Click to expand...

Your posts suggest otherwise.

YouTube - teaching hate

The audio is a bit out of sync, but the message is a clear one.

We don't have to be surprised, when the next big human tragedy will be by the hands of Islam....

and the Germans were mostly white Christians. Your point?

Click to expand...

The point being, that the human race can turn even the most beautifull message, into a nightmare.. What do you think they can do, with a demonic message...

But it happened for centuries. These weren't a few isolated incidents but a pattern of behavior that was not stopped. If I were alive back then, I would have to be worried that at any moment some angry Christians could come into my village and start beating people or throwing us out or worse. It isn't that much different to be honest.

I dont' care what your law says if you don't live by it. This call to kindness toward the Jews is a recent event brought out of a desire to gain converts to Christianity. The old plan of forced conversion didn't work. Not everybody believed in those acts, but enough did that you can compile a long, long list of oppression.

Click to expand...

I understand why the Jews don't trust the Christians, because of all the crimes commited by the Chritians throughout the year... And regarding my own motives, I'm not trying to convert anyone... Everyone can choose for him/her self... That is what being human is all about...

plenary said:

We don't have to be surprised, when the next big human tragedy will be by the hands of Islam....
The point being, that the human race can turn even the most beautifull message, into a nightmare.. What do you think they can do, with a demonic message...

Click to expand...

I hold onto the idea that people can do good or evil. Whatever the message you believe they are being told is unimportant if they strive to do good.

Judging by the race is wrong. It will never be right. Judging by the religion is wrong. It will never be right. Judge people by their actions.

Groups that commit acts of violence are to be judged by those acts. People who live their lives in peace and do not harm others are to be judged by those acts. I refuse to group everybody together into a big pile and declare them good or bad. It will never be right.

We stand today facing difficult times as the world becomes smaller. The Internet has brought people into contact with each other in a way our ancestors could never imagine. There is a mixing of ideas and culture. With that can come understanding or hate. I stand firmly on the side of understanding.

Would I resist a group that actively attempts to, through force, destroy my way of life or harm myself or my family? Of course. With violence if necessary. Will I resist those who, as of right now, have not done either of those things. We have the right to peacefully assemble and voice our views even if those views are not in line with mainstream thought. I think the recent Supreme Court ruling on military funerals shows that. We must not give into the temptation to squash different voices or ideas. We must not hate by the group when they have done nothing. You will say that they have, but you are grouping a billion people together. How many of those billion have done anything to you? What is the percentage?

b&wpac7 said:

I hold onto the idea that people can do good or evil. Whatever the message you believe they are being told is unimportant if they strive to do good.

Judging by the race is wrong. It will never be right. Judging by the religion is wrong. It will never be right. Judge people by their actions.

Groups that commit acts of violence are to be judged by those acts. People who live their lives in peace and do not harm others are to be judged by those acts. I refuse to group everybody together into a big pile and declare them good or bad. It will never be right.

We stand today facing difficult times as the world becomes smaller. The Internet has brought people into contact with each other in a way our ancestors could never imagine. There is a mixing of ideas and culture. With that can come understanding or hate. I stand firmly on the side of understanding.

Would I resist a group that actively attempts to, through force, destroy my way of life or harm myself or my family? Of course. With violence if necessary. Will I resist those who, as of right now, have not done either of those things. We have the right to peacefully assemble and voice our views even if those views are not in line with mainstream thought. I think the recent Supreme Court ruling on military funerals shows that. We must not give into the temptation to squash different voices or ideas. We must not hate by the group when they have done nothing. You will say that they have, but you are grouping a billion people together. How many of those billion have done anything to you? What is the percentage?

Click to expand...

Very well said!

My only concern is that us human beings are inherently weak when it comes to resisting evil- we can be easily swayed by propaganda and the rhetoric of charismatic megalomaniacs, like Hitler.

So I would never condemn, for example, all German people just because of what Hitler did- even though there were likely an awful lot of German citizens who supported his evil actions, or at least knew about them, but were unable to resist them.

So in the case of Islam- I do think that the combination of what is stated in the Qur'an, and how a disturbingly large number of Muslims interpret how they should treat infidels (and especially the Jewish people), gives great pause for concern. And, clearly, those concerns are not misplaced when one looks at the number and heinous nature of the almost daily terror attacks that are committed by those who profess to be Muslims.

The Internet has certainly been instrumental in exposing evil to the world- which is why, of course, totalitarian regimes are quick to shut down the Internet and free speech and independent reporting when there is any sign of unrest in such a country. But where, other than perhaps China, are these tactic most often used- in Islamic countries like Iran, Egypt, and right now, Libya.

But what really disturbs me, as we have seen in the comments offered by some of the professed Muslims on this thread, is the denial that so many passages in the Qur'an promote violence against non-Muslims, and the denial that so many Muslims in the world take these passages literally and commit so many gross acts of terrorism. They wiggle and squirm, and deny, deflect and ignore- all signs that they simply aren't able to refute the very serious concerns about Islam that more and more of the people in the world are raising.

Is there not a disturbing resemblance between what happened in Nazi Germany during the 1930's, and what is going on right now in Iran and places like Gaza, and with Nazis and terrorist groups like Hezbollah? It seems to me that the only difference is the much greater involvement of religion today- specifically, using the Qur'an and the teachings of Islam as a justification for carrying out the heinous acts of terrorism and oppression that we experience almost every day in the world.

.

plenary said:

I find it extremely saddening, that even after the holocaust, there are people who want to murder the jews...

Click to expand...

I find it extremely saddening, that even after the Holocaust, it only took the Jews three years to commit ethnic cleansing against another people.

Never again?